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trade Barker??

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Old
06-12-2007, 02:55 PM
  #51
Ezflow
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Well I was in favor of Trading Barker @ Last years Draft Table. Because of my fear that Pitt would take Toews 2nd overall and That way Dale would have Nabbed both Toews and Jordan Staal. Had that happened knowing what Staal can do and what a good prospect Toews is no one would be crying about Barker. But If i would've mentioned it on these boards as a proposal. They would put me through the meat grinder.

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06-12-2007, 02:55 PM
  #52
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I don't want to completely dismiss original sentiments in this thread. Cam Barker is a promising young d-man, and currently is a well sought after asset. However, AmericanDream has a point that he hasn't become a stand-up elite player yet (i know it is early and I am confident he will), but if he has a disastrous season his value will not be where it is now. However, that does not mean I want to trade him. The only way I would be on board for a trade is if it was for young offensive talent of the same caliber as Barker. That being said, I don't see that happening, and no 30 + veteran is worth trading such a prospect.

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06-12-2007, 03:32 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFoxHAWKS! View Post
I don't want to completely dismiss original sentiments in this thread. Cam Barker is a promising young d-man, and currently is a well sought after asset. However, AmericanDream has a point that he hasn't become a stand-up elite player yet (i know it is early and I am confident he will), but if he has a disastrous season his value will not be where it is now. However, that does not mean I want to trade him. The only way I would be on board for a trade is if it was for young offensive talent of the same caliber as Barker. That being said, I don't see that happening, and no 30 + veteran is worth trading such a prospect.
you just summed up everything that I have been saying. I dont want to trade him either, but you always have to wonder what happens if this kid doesnt pan out and we had a chance to get something excellent for him in return now. I also said that if you trade Barker, you need a player who can give you atleast 6-7 solid seasons in return, and is on the top of their game right now.

Some people just dont want to hear anything, and thats fine. I hope Cam resembles Bobby Orr in a Hawks uniform, I really do. But if he doesnt, and if he flops, I want to hear back from everyone who has said how crazy I am for even thinking about bettering this team right now by trading him.

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06-12-2007, 03:43 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Zim View Post
? He should have been especially for what they got in return. The only reason that the Canes traded Johnson is that they needed defense men to get them into the playoffs. Also ask any neutral fan what they think of that trade and they will tell you that the Canes dropped the ball. Chicago are not in that position. They are rebuilding and when you are rebuilding you don't toss your young talent away because he had one disappointing (in your eyes) year. Oh and you obviously didn't understand my post. I never once said that Cam was in the same league as Crosby or Ovechkin but they had very high potential when they came into the league and they didn't match it in their first year. The same can be said for Barker albeit that he has much less potential. You cannot expect 20 year olds to step into the NHL and look like veterans immediately. It happens on a few occasions but these are exceptional cases especially where defense men are concerned. I'm confused by your idea that 20 year olds shouldn't be considered prospects anymore. A lot of very promising 20 year olds are still considered prospects and i doubt their teams are worried about that. Kessel is a few months from being 20 and he is still a prospect. Rask is still a prospect despie being 20. Same for Stafford(22), Ryan, Jack Johnson, Montoya(23), Price, Backstrom. Do you think all their teams are looking to trade those players because they aren't stars in the NHL at 20? Oh and if Barker hadn't been injured at the start of the season and had played in NHL all season he wouldn't have been considered a prospect because he would have played 60-70 games (whatever the HF idea of a prospect is). The fact he is still considered a prospect is not a knock against his play it is the fact that due to injury he couldn't complete the quota of games to be considered a graduate.
well I must be missing your points then. by the way, Kessel is not considered a prospect anymore by any service that you can find online or anywhere else. He is an NHL player, age has nothing to do with it, games played and impact do. Again, Cam Barker was the third overall selection in his draft, are you not seeing my point???? Where is the talent at? Where is the impact? This kid should have been a Hawk full-time by last year or atleast a dominating presence in the AHL.

again the Crosby/Ovechkin thing doesnt even hold water. If your saying that they didnt play to their potential their rookie seasons, well then I think I need to have another beer. Both of those guys may not have been complete players, or learned the ins and outs of the game, but their play and their stats were just scarry, and well on pace with what they have done since then. Cam Barker hasnt even put up great numbers in the AHL yet, very modest at best. I understand that it takes different amounts of time for everyone, and that d-men can develope later, but your not showing me any proof that he can be a stud like we hoped he would have been by now.

I hope he turns into a stud, because man we need it, I really do. I'll wait till training camp before I make anymore judgements on him. Go get em Cam!

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06-12-2007, 03:43 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezflow View Post
Well I was in favor of Trading Barker @ Last years Draft Table. Because of my fear that Pitt would take Toews 2nd overall and That way Dale would have Nabbed both Toews and Jordan Staal. Had that happened knowing what Staal can do and what a good prospect Toews is no one would be crying about Barker. But If i would've mentioned it on these boards as a proposal. They would put me through the meat grinder.
You may well have proposed that but in reality i really doubt that Pittsburgh would have traded the 2nd overall for Barker.

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06-12-2007, 05:48 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
you just summed up everything that I have been saying. I dont want to trade him either, but you always have to wonder what happens if this kid doesnt pan out and we had a chance to get something excellent for him in return now.
Well no one can predict the future.. Barker could live up to expectations and more, or he could not. Only time will tell.

You look at the situation in a negative way. "What if he doesn't pan out?"

Well i'll respond in the opposite way: what if he does and you traded him?

There's nothing you'll get right now for him in a trade that will be enough if he lives up to his potential, and the opposite is true, but sometimes you have to believe in the young player, and for a rebuilding team it's important to have young guys like him who could give years and years to this organization.

And if you traded him for a first round pick or a young prospect, who would say that THAT player would live to his potential?

The draft is sometimes a crapshoot, but you can have confidence in a guy that professional scouts saw as top 5 and a guy that played extremely well at every level he was in (including team Canada Junior). He'll be in the NHL, how good he gets is left to see, but he'll be there.

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06-12-2007, 09:05 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
dont even put him in the same breath as Crosby and Ovechkin... look what they did their rookie years, and look what Cam has done..are you kidding me?
Are YOU kidding US? Just because someone was drafted near someone else does not mean they are expected to be near the same talent level or development cycle. Malkin and Crosby are players that come along only once or twice every few drafts, if that. Barker is not in their league and never was.

Your idiotic complaint that he's not producing near their level is simply exposing you as either a troll or completely clueless as to how players other than certain superstars develop.

Every time you put Barker and Malkin/Crosby in the same breath, you show just how out of touch with reality you are. I'm leaning more and more towards troll. No one is that stupid.


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06-12-2007, 09:05 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by salty justice View Post
Id trade him if it meant getting a 21 year old forward with top line potential.
Would you guys trade the #1 and Cam Barker for the #4 and Patrick O'Sullivan?
You would still be able to select one the top 4 forwards with the #4 pick (Voracek, Turris, Kane, JVR).

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06-12-2007, 10:34 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Are YOU kidding US? Just because someone was drafted near someone else does not mean they are expected to be near the same talent level or development cycle. Malkin and Crosby are players that come along only once or twice every few drafts, if that. Barker is not in their league and never was.

Your idiotic complaint that he's not producing near their level is simply exposing you as either a troll or completely clueless as to how players other than certain superstars develop.

Every time you put Barker and Malkin/Crosby in the same breath, you show just how out of touch with reality you are. I'm leaning more and more towards troll. No one is that stupid.

ummmm, I think you need to go back and see who started comparing crosby and ovechkin here buddy. I am not comparing them at all, you need to talk to zim on that one. I am clearly saying HE IS NOT THEM, NOR TRYING TO COMPARE THEM ON A TALENT BASIS. The only comparison was that he was drafted after ovechkin and malkin, thats it. learn to read before you make idiotic posts.

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06-12-2007, 10:36 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Are YOU kidding US? Just because someone was drafted near someone else does not mean they are expected to be near the same talent level or development cycle. Malkin and Crosby are players that come along only once or twice every few drafts, if that. Barker is not in their league and never was.

Your idiotic complaint that he's not producing near their level is simply exposing you as either a troll or completely clueless as to how players other than certain superstars develop.

Every time you put Barker and Malkin/Crosby in the same breath, you show just how out of touch with reality you are. I'm leaning more and more towards troll. No one is that stupid.


please tell me that your not from Chicago, because if so..... my house is for sale. god help this city.

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06-13-2007, 03:41 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
ummmm, I think you need to go back and see who started comparing crosby and ovechkin here buddy. I am not comparing them at all, you need to talk to zim on that one. I am clearly saying HE IS NOT THEM, NOR TRYING TO COMPARE THEM ON A TALENT BASIS. The only comparison was that he was drafted after ovechkin and malkin, thats it. learn to read before you make idiotic posts.
Learn to take your own advice and read my post again.
I never said Barker had the same potential as Crosby or Ovechkin etc i said that like them he will need more than a year in the NHL to meet his full potential.


Last edited by Zim: 06-13-2007 at 03:47 AM.
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06-13-2007, 03:54 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LeftKinger View Post
Would you guys trade the #1 and Cam Barker for the #4 and Patrick O'Sullivan?
You would still be able to select one the top 4 forwards with the #4 pick (Voracek, Turris, Kane, JVR).
Not really. Chicago already have someone who obviously hasn't recreated O'Sullivan's numbers in the NHL but Troy Brouwer has basically the same AHL numbers and he is slightly younger so i'd rather take a chance on him being an NHL player before panicking and trading Barker and dropping down in the draft. I also really don't see why O'Sullivan has the value of Barker and the difference between the 4th and 1st selections in this draft. I'm sure LA wouldn't trade Johnson for someone like O'Sullivan and also drop 3 places in the draft. It is far too early to be talking about trading Barker especially for that sort of package.


Last edited by Zim: 06-13-2007 at 04:01 AM.
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Old
06-13-2007, 09:57 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
The only comparison was that he was drafted after ovechkin and malkin, thats it.
Curiosity. How is it relevant that Barker was drafted right after Ovechkin and Malkin?

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06-13-2007, 10:45 AM
  #64
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While it is perfectly valid to ponder how a prospect is going to turn out, there are some things we cannot do and that is predict that statistical outcome of the future.

However, we can and do project, but the only way to do that is by watching Cam Barker play and assessing his desire to work towards his potential. From watching him, he looks to be very good. He is a very nice skater, has a nice outlet pass, has shown the ability to hit and check as well as understand positional systems. I think the only thing we haven't seen is a real wicked slapper. But as I understand it that is not his flag. His flag is passing and geting low shots (often wristers) through traffic to the net.

Now what he hasnt' shown is consistency and out of all the signs, that is the best problem to have with a young player because if they are willing, consistency will improve with the number of games he plays. In Barker, all signs are very good. The last half of the season, he was playing already at a 3-4 D level with a bit more consistency.

Furthermore, every player is different. They are humans and have numerous human reasons why one player might take longer than another to develop there game. It cannot and will not ever be a scientific indicator such as age where all players click in with there game. Use Olli Jokinen as an example. He toiled in LA on lower lines as arole player while taking flak as a bust because he was picked 4th.

He is traded to Florida and people then realize he wasn't wasting time but honed his defense and understanding of the game and when he felt comfortable with that, his offensive talents started coming out.

Barker has the skill. I say, as long as he isn't a liability, let him learn the simple intracisies of the game in his own time. With the caveat, that if it was a stellar deal, you have to listen.

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Old
06-13-2007, 10:51 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
why, what has he done?

He was drafted right after malkin and ovechkin, and again, please tell me what he has done for this club?

I will bet my house that Tallon is frustrated with his "lack" of production, and that he "has entertained" offers on this kid.

I am sorry, but the #3 pick overall in that draft class needs to have lit up the AHL by now..which he hasnt done.

He "may" be a good one, but he hasnt seperated himself above the rest of the crop to justify keeping him on promise alone. Richmond and Wiz have looked better then Barker has at both AHL and NHL levels.

I must be watching Bob Barker instead...my bad.
I think you forgot to take your Ritalin again, and your ADD is flaring up.

First, what does it matter who was drafted before Barker? Everyone knew that AO & Malkin were total studs, but how does that impact Barker AT ALL? Hawks never had the chance to draft them, so they took the next best player available at the time. Then take into account that Barker has had some injury issues, and it take defensemen MUCH longer to develop than forwards, and you're WAY jumping the gun.

Second, how much was Barker supposed to produce on one of the worst NHL teams last year? I thought he didn't look out of place at the NHL level, and was better than Richmond & Wisz by a substantial margin. How many 20 YO defenseman are difference makers on teams as bad as the Hawks?

I agree, that I'd move him if I could get a young stud forward, but to call him a bust at this point is beyond stupid.

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Old
06-13-2007, 02:43 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
ummmm, I think you need to go back and see who started comparing crosby and ovechkin here buddy.
From your ORIGINAL POST...

Quote:
All I know is he will always be looked at as the kid drafted behind 2 of the best offensive players in the game..and as of today he hasnt produced zip. atleast compared to those 2 (malkin and ovechkin), he was an albatross pick.
How's that crow tasting, son?

Quote:
I am not comparing them at all
Lie or backtrack?

Quote:
I am clearly saying HE IS NOT THEM, NOR TRYING TO COMPARE THEM ON A TALENT BASIS. The only comparison was that he was drafted after ovechkin and malkin, thats it.
Which you have apparently decided to use as your reason to trade him.

Quote:
learn to read before you make idiotic posts.
Irony > you.


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06-13-2007, 02:47 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I think you forgot to take your Ritalin again, and your ADD is flaring up.
Yes, he seems to be having some difficulty keeping his arguments straight. And ADHD would explain why he wants to trade a 21 year old defensemen simply because he hasn't produced like Crosby and Malkin.

Quote:
First, what does it matter who was drafted before Barker? Everyone knew that AO & Malkin were total studs, but how does that impact Barker AT ALL?
It doesn't. At all. MOST people understand that. You always get one who slips through the cracks.

Quote:
I agree, that I'd move him if I could get a young stud forward, but to call him a bust at this point is beyond stupid.
The only players you get trading prospect for prospect are prospects the other team has started giving up on, unless one of them is holding out or something like that. We are not even close to anywhere near the point of giving up on Barker, so why trade him for a player another team is?

This is an awful thread, started by an awful poster with an awful understanding of hockey, hockey players, and how they develop.


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Old
06-13-2007, 08:35 PM
  #68
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I'm not going to bother delivering warnings for all the crap in this thread.

Let's just say that several of you are lucky.

Closed.

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