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2007 Draft Central (Detroit draft talk).

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Old
06-16-2007, 06:23 PM
  #26
shveik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup View Post
Kenny please do not pick any of the below with our first rounder:
Joakim Andersson, C, Frolunda Jr. (Sweden Jr.)
James O'Brien, C, U. of Minnesota (WCHA)
David Perron, W, Lewiston (QMJHL)
Mike Hoeffel, W, U.S. National U-18
Luca Cunti, C, Dubendorf (Swiss-3)
Sergei Korostin, RW, Dynamo Moscow (Russia)
David Skokan, C, Rimouski (QMJHL)
I only disagree with O'Brien on this "not to draft" list. He has all the tools, and he is a smart player. He could stand to be more physically assertive, but let's not forget he is an 18yo playing in a league with majority 20+ yo players. I think there is a good chance he will blossom into 6'2" Chris Drury.

Oh, and I would like to add Brett MacLean to this list. His skating is just too bad, and his shot is not lethal by any stretch. He is much closer to Don MacLean than to Brett Hull.

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Old
06-16-2007, 11:51 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorilla crouch View Post
So guys I've read some positive stuff about who could be available.

Defensemen

Kevin Shattenkirk - will probably be gone but might slip to Detroit.
Alex Plante
Kevin Marshall

Forwards

Billy Sweatt
Riley Nash
Oscar Moller
Nico Sacchetti
Dale Mitchell
bought off and sold
make use of your enemies
line em up single file and gouge out all their eyes
all fingers point in the wrong direction
set up your example of the ones that we despise
iím not grounded iím not reactive
so uptight itís so unattractive
forced out of use, forgotten for a long time
superficial mother****er wasting sign of want from off
all hail the black market
getting what we want when we want it so bad
all fingers point, all fingers pry
stick out your thumb and watch them drive on by
iím not grounded iím not reactive
so uptight itís so unattractive
forced out of use, forgotten for a long time
superficial mother****er wasting

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Old
06-17-2007, 10:01 AM
  #28
DanStewartFC
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Originally Posted by jay-P View Post
Cup, it's interesting that you have James O'Brien on your undesirables list. From what I saw of him in two games at the Under-18 World Championships, I was very impressed.
The reason I would not be happy if Holland/Nill selected O'Brien is because in my opinion, James has a very limited ceiling as a first line player and I think Detroit needs an impact player top groom. They currently have many role type players on the way up but no sure fire first line scorer or potential top four defender (with Kindl being a possible exemption to this).

With Detroit needing to replace a #1, #2 and #4 defender within two years as well as an already current need for a goal scoring forward who can finish, I would think they would be targeting a different type of player than O'Brien.

I would not be supprised to see James O'Brien in the NHL in three to four years but I expect he would be a third or fourth line player who plays on the PK. His offensive awarness, offensive creativityand vision are lacking in my opinion.

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06-17-2007, 10:02 AM
  #29
DanStewartFC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Good Flying Bird View Post
bought off and sold
make use of your enemies
line em up single file and gouge out all their eyes
all fingers point in the wrong direction
set up your example of the ones that we despise
i’m not grounded i’m not reactive
so uptight it’s so unattractive
forced out of use, forgotten for a long time
superficial mother****er wasting sign of want from off
all hail the black market
getting what we want when we want it so bad
all fingers point, all fingers pry
stick out your thumb and watch them drive on by
i’m not grounded i’m not reactive
so uptight it’s so unattractive
forced out of use, forgotten for a long time
superficial mother****er wasting
ruff night last night?

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Old
06-17-2007, 11:50 AM
  #30
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from 6' 195 to 6' 4" 245 + likes physical play + will fight .
and i predict there shall be some late bloomers coming out of america so keep an eye out there , ecspecially for guys that also play football so gonna be good hitters .

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Old
06-17-2007, 06:37 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Good Flying Bird View Post
bought off and sold
make use of your enemies
line em up single file and gouge out all their eyes
all fingers point in the wrong direction
set up your example of the ones that we despise
iím not grounded iím not reactive
so uptight itís so unattractive
forced out of use, forgotten for a long time
superficial mother****er wasting sign of want from off
all hail the black market
getting what we want when we want it so bad
all fingers point, all fingers pry
stick out your thumb and watch them drive on by
iím not grounded iím not reactive
so uptight itís so unattractive
forced out of use, forgotten for a long time
superficial mother****er wasting
Ha ha, I was just singing those lyrics to myself on a bike ride this afternoon. I saw them at Rick's in Ann Arbor when Icky Mettle came out. They played with Helium.

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Old
06-17-2007, 07:01 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by gorilla crouch View Post
Ha ha, I was just singing those lyrics to myself on a bike ride this afternoon. I saw them at Rick's in Ann Arbor when Icky Mettle came out. They played with Helium.
they played at Ricks? Holy crap.

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Old
06-18-2007, 03:14 PM
  #33
shveik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup View Post
The reason I would not be happy if Holland/Nill selected O'Brien is because in my opinion, James has a very limited ceiling as a first line player and I think Detroit needs an impact player top groom. They currently have many role type players on the way up but no sure fire first line scorer or potential top four defender (with Kindl being a possible exemption to this).

With Detroit needing to replace a #1, #2 and #4 defender within two years as well as an already current need for a goal scoring forward who can finish, I would think they would be targeting a different type of player than O'Brien.

I would not be supprised to see James O'Brien in the NHL in three to four years but I expect he would be a third or fourth line player who plays on the PK. His offensive awarness, offensive creativityand vision are lacking in my opinion.
It's intimidating to argue with draft expert like you, but I do not agree with (or maybe do not understand) a couple of points. First of all, I do not see how the Wings farm lacking top notch scorer or the need to upgrade top 4 D should affect our draft pick. The guys we pick now will start being solid contributors in 4-6 years, the NHL ready guys usually go top 5. BPA should be the way to go, and I think when we say BPA we do not only consider the ceiling, but also the likelyhood of reaching it. My problem with the bottom of the 1st round is that a lot of the guys projected to go there have in my opinion high bust potential. Why not pick a guy who is almost a lock to play on the 3rd line, and could surprise. I do not know, O'Brien's size and skating are quite good, and he has great anticipation of how the play will develop. While he is not flashy by any means, you do not have to be flashy to be effective. How flashy or creative are Shane Doan, Eric Cole, Keith Tkachuk or Jarome Iginla? Not to say O'Brien will become one of those players, but I think there is value in "safe" picks that did not display eye-popping offense, and I'd put O'Brien in the same boat with Sutter and Gillies.

And I think it would not be out of character for the Wings to pick a guy like that. Last year we traded down after Blues picked Berglund, because we had a bunch of guys ranked same after that. One of them was Shawn Matthias, and that could have been our 1st round pick last year if we did not find right trading partner.

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Old
06-18-2007, 04:57 PM
  #34
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Quote:
It's intimidating to argue with draft expert like you, but I do not agree with (or maybe do not understand) a couple of points. First of all, I do not see how the Wings farm lacking top notch scorer or the need to upgrade top 4 D should affect our draft pick.
i think they do lack is a sniper, once grigorenko is gone, mursak might be the only pure scorer we got with a ton of potential, inless you count dick axelsson? Defensively, im sick of this team drafting defensemen in the first.. we dont need more defensemen at this point in time.

Quote:
The guys we pick now will start being solid contributors in 4-6 years, the NHL ready guys usually go top 5. BPA should be the way to go, and I think when we say BPA we do not only consider the ceiling, but also the likelyhood of reaching it. My problem with the bottom of the 1st round is that a lot of the guys projected to go there have in my opinion high bust potential. Why not pick a guy who is almost a lock to play on the 3rd line, and could surprise.
I disagree. Detroit is so good at drafting in the later rounds, why not just pick a kid that has a ton of potential, boom or bust who cares? we got enough 3-4th line fillers for the future in helm, ryno, kopecky if he stays, adbelkader, ect.. we really dont need a future BETTER 3rd liner, cuz in all reality, its almost not something to brag about. So personally, i agree with your first statement, just take the BPA...



Quote:
I do not know, O'Brien's size and skating are quite good, and he has great anticipation of how the play will develop. While he is not flashy by any means, you do not have to be flashy to be effective. How flashy or creative are Shane Doan, Eric Cole, Keith Tkachuk or Jarome Iginla? Not to say O'Brien will become one of those players, but I think there is value in "safe" picks that did not display eye-popping offense, and I'd put O'Brien in the same boat with Sutter and Gillies.
ive heard a lot of ppl say his game is comparible to Getzlaf... i saw a few clips of the kid and hes got some decent skill, solid build and i for one would just be happy to draft a kid with size for once...

Quote:
And I think it would not be out of character for the Wings to pick a guy like that. Last year we traded down after Blues picked Berglund, because we had a bunch of guys ranked same after that. One of them was Shawn Matthias, and that could have been our 1st round pick last year if we did not find right trading partner.
I think Emmerton would have been our first rounder over Matthias last year, but who knows. Either way the kid probably is going to be a NHLer if he can continue to progress like he did this year. Kinda upsetting to see a big size kid like that go, but what can ya do ya know?

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06-18-2007, 07:42 PM
  #35
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z40: since when does ryno project as a 3rd/4th line player? people call him raw, but with top six upside if he can reach it.

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06-18-2007, 08:13 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDakkster View Post
z40: since when does ryno project as a 3rd/4th line player? people call him raw, but with top six upside if he can reach it.
while hes got a ton of raw potential, to me, the stuff i have read about him make me think hes going to be a big bodied checker.. while id be thrilled for him to be anything better then that, dont get me wrong, i dont see it happening...

the key part you said was "IF he can reach it" and thats my thoughts exactly

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06-18-2007, 09:37 PM
  #37
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Luca CUNTi FTW

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Old
06-19-2007, 02:28 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
i think they do lack is a sniper, once grigorenko is gone, mursak might be the only pure scorer we got with a ton of potential, inless you count dick axelsson? Defensively, im sick of this team drafting defensemen in the first.. we dont need more defensemen at this point in time.
Like I said, who knows what we need 4-6 years from now! Who are we going to draft in 2009? Which 2008 late round picks will blossom? I just do not buy into "we a lacking <insert blah>".

By the way, as far as prospects go, we seem to have scorers (Hudler, Grigorenko, Hat Trick Dick, Mursak), and playmakers (Emmerton, Ryno), and defensemen (Quincey, Meech, Kindl, Ericsson, Pyett), and grinders (Abdelkader, Helm, Oulahen). We do not have goalie depth, does it mean we have to draft a goalie now? I do not think so.

Quote:
I disagree. Detroit is so good at drafting in the later rounds, why not just pick a kid that has a ton of potential, boom or bust who cares? we got enough 3-4th line fillers for the future in helm, ryno, kopecky if he stays, adbelkader, ect.. we really dont need a future BETTER 3rd liner, cuz in all reality, its almost not something to brag about. So personally, i agree with your first statement, just take the BPA...
A 3rd liner may not mean much in a fantasy league, but in the NHL it means a lot. And let's leave "boom or bust"s for later rounds, and take "boom or 3rd liner" types in the 1st.

Quote:
I think Emmerton would have been our first rounder over Matthias last year, but who knows. Either way the kid probably is going to be a NHLer if he can continue to progress like he did this year. Kinda upsetting to see a big size kid like that go, but what can ya do ya know?
I forgot who was saying that they had a fairly large group of players ranked about the same when our pick came up, and they traded down and got 2 players out of that group. What I am saying is that they have ranked a seemingly offensive wiz in Emmerton and a seemingly career plugger in Matthias about the same.

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06-19-2007, 04:14 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shveik View Post
Like I said, who knows what we need 4-6 years from now! Who are we going to draft in 2009? Which 2008 late round picks will blossom? I just do not buy into "we a lacking <insert blah>".

By the way, as far as prospects go, we seem to have scorers (Hudler, Grigorenko, Hat Trick Dick, Mursak), and playmakers (Emmerton, Ryno), and defensemen (Quincey, Meech, Kindl, Ericsson, Pyett), and grinders (Abdelkader, Helm, Oulahen). We do not have goalie depth, does it mean we have to draft a goalie now? I do not think so.



A 3rd liner may not mean much in a fantasy league, but in the NHL it means a lot. And let's leave "boom or bust"s for later rounds, and take "boom or 3rd liner" types in the 1st.



I forgot who was saying that they had a fairly large group of players ranked about the same when our pick came up, and they traded down and got 2 players out of that group. What I am saying is that they have ranked a seemingly offensive wiz in Emmerton and a seemingly career plugger in Matthias about the same.
i understand what your getting at, but with Ericsson, Quincey, Meech, Kindl right now on the border of being call ups and NHLers, do you really see a need, if we do draft for need with this pick, to draft a defensemen once again? Not BPA, but need. If theres a hell of a kid there, **** pick him.. but if there 2 close calls, why would you pick a defensemen if you can pick the other kid you got on your list? I dont see a need to pick a defensemen with this pick if your drafting for need because personally we really dont lack much in the defensive pool right now besides a open hige, hard hitting stay at home kid who would be a solid as hell cornerstone (a volchenkov, lower class chris philips, a ken daneyko, ect..)..

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06-19-2007, 04:21 PM
  #40
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So.. who do you guys want?

i say, for fun, some of us post a list of 5 guys you want, and if you want the same as the poster above you, add the number... if you want someone else, add them under... in a few days we can see where the boars stands and see what top 5 guys we could be looking at and wanting... just for fun!

So..

Here are my 5:

Oscar Moller 1
Micheal Pepik 1
Max Pacioretty 1
Simon Hjalmarsson 1
Jonathon Blum 1

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06-19-2007, 07:25 PM
  #41
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Shveik, I respect your opinion and you had some very valid points but with a late first round pick I would rather see a team make a pick going for the homerun instead of a safe pick that could be there in the second round as well. If Detroit wanted O'Brien they should trade their first(+) for a couple seconds as they did last year when they went safe('er) with Emmerton and took that leap with Matthias.

Most Detroit fans are not going to agree with me but I thing the Wings scouting system has leaned toward Swedish prospects a little too much in recent drafts trying trying to force the issue of Andersson being a great scout able to see potential that other scouts miss as they have mined gems previously but lately have left much to be desired IMO. I would love to see them take more U.S. and Russian based kids with later round picks in coming drafts. I know, Transfer Agreement, but it really doesn't matter when you have the money like the Wings do plus kids going the NCAA route get an extra two years to develop.

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06-19-2007, 07:31 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Oscar Moller 1
Micheal Pepik 1
Max Pacioretty 1
Simon Hjalmarsson 1
Jonathon Blum 1
Nick Petrecki 1 (I know I'm not being realistic with this one but you never know, I can only hope right?)
Max Pacioretty 2
Maxim Mayorov 1
Brett MacLean 1
Billy Sweatt 1

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06-19-2007, 08:49 PM
  #43
shveik
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I already listed 4 of them (Hjalmarsson, Sutter, Gillies, O'Brien) so I add another one - MacMillan (by the way Birko, you have deleted a few of z40's choices, I put them back on the list):

Max Pacioretty 2
Simon Hjalmarsson 2
Oscar Moller 1
Micheal Pepik 1
Maxim Mayorov 1
Jonathon Blum 1
Brett MacLean 1
Billy Sweatt 1
Nick Petrecki 1
Brandon Sutter 1
Colton Gillies 1
Jim O'Brien 1

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06-19-2007, 08:55 PM
  #44
DanStewartFC
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Max Pacioretty 3
Simon Hjalmarsson 3
Brandon Sutter 2
T.J Brennan 1
Colby Cohen 1
Oscar Moller 1
Micheal Pepik 1
Maxim Mayorov 1
Jonathon Blum 1
Brett MacLean 1
Billy Sweatt 1
Nick Petrecki 1
Colton Gillies 1
Jim O'Brien 1

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06-19-2007, 09:00 PM
  #45
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so who else here is going to c-bus for the draft?

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06-19-2007, 09:08 PM
  #46
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The only reason Detroit should ever keep a #1 (assuming they draft where they usually do, late 20's and on) is if there is a guy they are absolutely in love with who they think would never ever be there for their second pick... and at 20-ish I have a hard time believing that happens all too often.

Other than that... move the pick for a pair of #2's. Hell, move the pick for a #2 and a #3. Double Hell, I'd move a late first like Detroit's for two #3's if they were both top half in the third. First round picks like Detroit's over the past 5 or so years were the same as high seconds 10 years ago.

Success in the draft 26-30 is just way too chancy. That's why I've never minded the team trading away boatloads of #1's in various deadline deals over the years. In the grand scheme of things those tend to be of somewhat marginalized value.

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06-19-2007, 09:41 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup View Post
Max Pacioretty 3
Simon Hjalmarsson 3
Brandon Sutter 3
T.J Brennan 1
Colby Cohen 1
Oscar Moller 2
Micheal Pepik 1
Maxim Mayorov 1
Jonathon Blum 1
Brett MacLean 1
Billy Sweatt 1
Nick Petrecki 2
Colton Gillies 2
Jim O'Brien 2

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06-19-2007, 09:53 PM
  #48
shveik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup View Post
Shveik, I respect your opinion and you had some very valid points but with a late first round pick I would rather see a team make a pick going for the homerun instead of a safe pick that could be there in the second round as well. If Detroit wanted O'Brien they should trade their first(+) for a couple seconds as they did last year when they went safe('er) with Emmerton and took that leap with Matthias.
An interesting observation: to me Matthias was a safe pick, and Emmerton was the home run. Simply because Matthias was almost a lock to play just based on size and skating, and Emmerton still has a road to travel, and he will not make it as a bottom 2 liner IMO. So it's all or nothing with him.

To step back a little bit, there was only one draft where the "top tier" list extended beyond 15 prospects. By top tier I mean the prospect that have a very good chance to become top 4 D or a top 6 forward. After that you gotta pick your poison, as every prospect will come with a few holes and question marks. And when people bring up the so-called "home run", to me it sounds exactly like Emmerton, somebody who has displayed very good offensive skills already at the time of the draft, but has some holes that prevent him from being picked in the top tier. I have nothing against such picks, it's always case by case basis. But the so-called "safe" picks are actually in the same pile (at least in my eyes). They have practically everything to at least make the NHL, but their question mark is the offensive ceiling. I am not against home runs, I would be ecstatic if the Wings pick Hjalmarsson, but as for the rest, I think that for example the chance of Gillies or O'Brien getting into offensive groove and becoming a top 6 power forward in the NHL is better than let's say a chance of Brett MacLean or Luca Cunti ever making it.

And I think that trading down into the 2nd would not be a bad idea this year, just like it was a good decision last year.

Quote:
Most Detroit fans are not going to agree with me but I thing the Wings scouting system has leaned toward Swedish prospects a little too much in recent drafts trying trying to force the issue of Andersson being a great scout able to see potential that other scouts miss as they have mined gems previously but lately have left much to be desired IMO. I would love to see them take more U.S. and Russian based kids with later round picks in coming drafts. I know, Transfer Agreement, but it really doesn't matter when you have the money like the Wings do plus kids going the NCAA route get an extra two years to develop.
Can't blame them for going with what works, plus it's harder to mine the NA mines, as they have been pored over with a much finer comb. That said, we do pick from NA (I think it's roughly 50/50 between NA and Europe), and I think it's up to our NA scouts to show what they can do with their picks. Once that happens I think the ratio will naturally shift. But maybe getting a good russian scout wouldn't hurt.

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06-19-2007, 10:16 PM
  #49
zetterberg40
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Max Pacioretty 3
Simon Hjalmarsson 3
Brandon Sutter 3
T.J Brennan 1
Colby Cohen 1
Oscar Moller 2
Micheal Repik 1
Maxim Mayorov 1
Jonathon Blum 1
Brett MacLean 1
Billy Sweatt 1
Nick Petrecki 2
Colton Gillies 2
Jim O'Brien 2

my bad on the R... lol

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Old
06-20-2007, 08:26 AM
  #50
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put me down for ...

Brandon Sutter 4
Colton Gilles 3

Can I reserve my other 3 for later?

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