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the anti schneider thread

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Old
06-13-2007, 11:05 PM
  #1
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the anti schneider thread

- takes 100's of stupid shots that have zero chance of scoring per season
- coughs the puck up in his own zone alot
- doesnt seem too bright / creative / well ice visioned
- doesnt play ruggedly

if he came cheap and you could put a big rugged stay at home Dman with him itd be a good set up . but under the cap we cant and or we dont have that type Dman on the roster .
to me holland keeps holding on to schneider and over blowing his worth because he doesnt want the avery + #1 + #2 price tag to look like a bad deal .


Last edited by TRIARII*: 06-14-2007 at 12:25 AM. Reason: adjusted trade facts
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Old
06-14-2007, 05:46 AM
  #2
pavel13
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No he wants to keep Schneider because he likes him. I don't think keeping Schneider is related at all to not wanting the Schneider deal to look bad. It wasn't a bad deal at the time. Avery and Kuznetzov were borderline NHLers, and 1st round draft picks tend to be overrated, especially on HF.

If Holland and Babcock thought Schneider were a bad player, Holland wouldn't keep Schneider to make the deal look better. He would trade him.

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06-14-2007, 10:41 AM
  #3
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At the moment, trading him isn't even on the radar (just saying in case anyone has forgotten he's up for renewal as an UFA).


I think Pavel is right that Holland just plain ol' likes Matt and considers him to be a guy who might get close to $5 MM on the open market. I kinda like Matty at $3 MM or less... so we're pretty far apart here. I just have a hard time thinking of Schneider as the 4th best skater on this team. Lidstrom is the top dog, and his salary shows that. Next is Dats, and certainly Z with him but Z is under that RFA contract still so his value by far exceeds his cost. The next highest paid Wing would be Schneider! Eeeek.

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06-14-2007, 10:49 AM
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doublejack
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Cue up the song that gets played after the Visitors score their first goal of the game at JLA - "Get over it".

Schneider will be back. He's a very good defenseman and adds a dimension to the blueline many teams are seeking right now. The Oilers in particular would pay a king's ransom to have Matt. He'll be wearing the winged wheel for at least another season.

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06-14-2007, 10:52 AM
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I'd really LOVE to see another team pay a king's ransom. Without a cap, I don't think I'd worry much about whether we bring him back or not because Holland could sign anyone else he liked too. It's just that part about signing him anywhere close to $5 MM that means the rest of the blue line is mostly leftovers or kids.

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06-14-2007, 11:11 AM
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You won't get your wish, because Matt will never hit the open market. Holland will have a deal done before the end of the month.

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06-14-2007, 11:25 AM
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Schneider is ok in my books as long as they sign a guy that brings what Markov brought, I'd rathar that player be Markov of course.

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06-14-2007, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
You won't get your wish, because Matt will never hit the open market. Holland will have a deal done before the end of the month.
Second that - and this is not the worst thing that can happen

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06-14-2007, 11:51 AM
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I'm a supporter of the anti-Schneider group ... in my opinion he makes a lot mistakes in the own zone, takes too much unnecessary penalties, seems to be a bit slow, even in compairison to a guy like Chelios.
But for sure: His offensive qualities are really, really good.

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06-14-2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think Pavel is right that Holland just plain ol' likes Matt and considers him to be a guy who might get close to $5 MM on the open market. I kinda like Matty at $3 MM or less... so we're pretty far apart here.
Well Ek says he should be worth 3.5. (We really need a eye-rolling smilie.)

IIRC, Matty is looking for a multi-year deal. I'm not real fond of that idea.

Edit: wow, I've never seen an editor expand I I R C before.

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06-14-2007, 02:16 PM
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Hate to say it, but if Schneider never got hurt, the cup woulda been ours.

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06-14-2007, 03:01 PM
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Hate to say it, but if Schneider never got hurt, the cup woulda been ours.
I dont agree at all. The team still played pretty well even after he got hurt. The PP struggled with AND without him, so his absence really didnt matter as much as one might think.

I posted this in another thread, but it seems a bit more relevant in this thread.....

I like Schneider and I think he really played well in the playoffs before his injury. But at the same time, I didnt think the team played all that badly after he was out. For that reason, I am hesitant to bring him back at $4 million +. Give Quincey more minutes, give Lebda and Kronwall more PP responsibility. See if Kindl and/or Ericsson are ready. Try to get Markov back at a similar salary that he got last year. Schneider has done a nice job, but in the cap world I dont necessarily feel it is imperative to bring him back.

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06-14-2007, 03:30 PM
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doublejack
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I dont agree at all. The team still played pretty well even after he got hurt. The PP struggled with AND without him, so his absence really didnt matter as much as one might think.

I posted this in another thread, but it seems a bit more relevant in this thread.....

I like Schneider and I think he really played well in the playoffs before his injury. But at the same time, I didnt think the team played all that badly after he was out. For that reason, I am hesitant to bring him back at $4 million +. Give Quincey more minutes, give Lebda and Kronwall more PP responsibility. See if Kindl and/or Ericsson are ready. Try to get Markov back at a similar salary that he got last year. Schneider has done a nice job, but in the cap world I dont necessarily feel it is imperative to bring him back.
I'm not positive we would have won the cup if Schneider didn't get hurt, but losing him was a major, major blow. The Wings continued to score goals, but the defense went to hell. We never gave up more than 2 goals in any game against the Sharks. The Quacks scored 3+ goals in 3 different games, and scored 4 twice.

Schneider was a much bigger difference maker than you give him credit for.

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06-14-2007, 04:16 PM
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pavel13
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Schneider is 38 years old. A two-year deal worth more than $2.5 is a bad idea. Anything more than two years is a mistake. Schneider is not what this team needs. He's a pretty one-dimensional player, and he's not even great at what he does. He has an inaccurate shot, and he's not a great puck distributor. I'll say again that he's 38 years old, because it seems like a lot of people don't realize that.

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I dont agree at all. The team still played pretty well even after he got hurt. The PP struggled with AND without him, so his absence really didnt matter as much as one might think.
Detroit's PP was pretty productive against Anaheim. The PP relied too much on Schneider's inaccurate shot that was frequently blocked in the playoffs. The PP looked better to me. They got the puck down low instead of passing between the two players on the point. I think Schneider is very replaceable.

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06-14-2007, 04:18 PM
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I agree to let him walk, I think that at his age he isnt worth anything over 3, and I dont think him being in our line up would have impacted us much different in terms of where we went in the playoffs. Like the poster said, he takes alot of shots that dont hit the net, and he's injury proned, i'd let him walk.

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Old
06-14-2007, 07:22 PM
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say schneiders looking at 3.8 mil , kronwalls at 3 .

let schneider go , trade kronwall .

then sign markov at say 2.6 , then souray at 4.2 .

same salary but bigger , tougher , plus still have sourays big shot .
and his policeman capabilities .

as they say in the arm chair gm business = "pull the trigger kenny"

ps - then sign sutton to play with souray and our D is set / bigger / rougher .


Last edited by TRIARII*: 06-14-2007 at 08:44 PM. Reason: added sutton signing
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Old
06-14-2007, 09:48 PM
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Meanwhile Bryan Allen was re-signed by Florida for 5 yrs at a cap hit of nearly $3MM per year.....



Cheap, cheap... cheap, cheap....

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06-14-2007, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
I'm not positive we would have won the cup if Schneider didn't get hurt, but losing him was a major, major blow. The Wings continued to score goals, but the defense went to hell. We never gave up more than 2 goals in any game against the Sharks. The Quacks scored 3+ goals in 3 different games, and scored 4 twice.

Schneider was a much bigger difference maker than you give him credit for.
Or alternatively the Ducks were a far better team than the Sharks... Plus they got the breaks no other team got this spring (most winners do).



Plus here's one GIANT factor to consider. How do we know his 38 year old wrist will be fully 100% healthy? Why in the world would ANY GM sign a guy that old to a contract before he's healthy? Schneider without the full use of his slapper is not a guy I want on the team AND just because he can't crank 'em like he used to doesn't mean he won't be healthy enough to get on the ice so we can't Mogilny him. We'd be stuck with whater cap hit he'd end up as (provided this is a multi-year deal which is what this is smelling like).

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06-14-2007, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by trapper keeper View Post
say schneiders looking at 3.8 mil , kronwalls at 3 .

let schneider go , trade kronwall .

then sign markov at say 2.6 , then souray at 4.2 .

same salary but bigger , tougher , plus still have sourays big shot .
and his policeman capabilities .

as they say in the arm chair gm business = "pull the trigger kenny"

ps - then sign sutton to play with souray and our D is set / bigger / rougher .
markov at 2.6? souray at 4.2??? yep, that's realistic!

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Old
06-14-2007, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Meanwhile Bryan Allen was re-signed by Florida for 5 yrs at a cap hit of nearly $3MM per year.....



Cheap, cheap... cheap, cheap....

a dream trade = kronwall for allen . pull the trigger kenny

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06-15-2007, 02:08 AM
  #21
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No offense but I think some of you are out of your mind..

Had Schneids had a bad season, then MAYBE I can see some of your points..

He just came off from one of his best seasons, and if not injured late in the playoffs, who knows what would of happened.

I think some of you are really underestimating how important he is to this Wings team. He's a great d-man, reliable, rarely out of position, smart with the puck, has a hell of a shot, is great at the point, and basically mans the powerplay. You can't replace a guy like Matt. You may 'think' you can, but you absolutely cannot. Especially with their being no one better than him out there on the market. He's a very valuable part of the Wings D, and they are smart in trying to re-sign him. BTW, the whole age thing should not matter. If you can play, and are still effective no matter how old then that's that. He's shown no signs whatsoever of going downhill. He's a keeper, and he'll probably get around 2.5-3 mil which is perfectly fine in my opinion.

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06-15-2007, 06:47 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Hockeycrazy3033 View Post
No offense but I think some of you are out of your mind..
Had Schneids had a bad season, then MAYBE I can see some of your points..

He just came off from one of his best seasons, and if not injured late in the playoffs, who knows what would of happened.

I think some of you are really underestimating how important he is to this Wings team. He's a great d-man, reliable, rarely out of position, smart with the puck, has a hell of a shot, is great at the point, and basically mans the powerplay. You can't replace a guy like Matt. You may 'think' you can, but you absolutely cannot. Especially with their being no one better than him out there on the market. He's a very valuable part of the Wings D, and they are smart in trying to re-sign him. BTW, the whole age thing should not matter. If you can play, and are still effective no matter how old then that's that. He's shown no signs whatsoever of going downhill. He's a keeper, and he'll probably get around 2.5-3 mil which is perfectly fine in my opinion.

I doubt you'll find anyone here who thinks $2.5-3 MM isn't acceptable. I also doubt you'll find anyone else here who thinks that's what it will take to get the deal done... especially when Holland said his free market value was $5.2 MM.

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06-15-2007, 06:54 AM
  #23
14ari13
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I doubt you'll find anyone here who thinks $2.5-3 MM isn't acceptable. I also doubt you'll find anyone else here who thinks that's what it will take to get the deal done... especially when Holland said his free market value was $5.2 MM.
Never heard of it, but I have not had time to follow hockey (was there any reason anyway).
Anyhow, Schneider surprised me how well he played in the playoffs, he played much better than what I expected, much better than what I expected.
Anyhow, I am not very fond of his game and I would say that he should not get more than 3M, but Holland will probably find a way to pay him much more than that.

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06-15-2007, 08:23 AM
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- takes 100's of stupid shots that have zero chance of scoring per season
Taking shots are not a negative, or a reason to not sign him. In fact I applaud Schnieder for taking so many shots. You know the old saying "throw the puck at the net and good things happen"

In fact If we dont sign Schnieder, I cant seem to find another Free Agent defensemen who had the same goals and assists as Schnieder last year... all the big free agents had lower numbers. Unless I'm missing someone...

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06-15-2007, 08:56 AM
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Higgy4
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Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
I'm not positive we would have won the cup if Schneider didn't get hurt, but losing him was a major, major blow. The Wings continued to score goals, but the defense went to hell. We never gave up more than 2 goals in any game against the Sharks. The Quacks scored 3+ goals in 3 different games, and scored 4 twice.

Schneider was a much bigger difference maker than you give him credit for.
I never said he wasnt a difference maker. I like Schneider, I always have. Even when people lambasted him again and again for his deficiencies. I just dont know that the Wings cannot go on without him and save themselves $4-5 million at the same time. The PP was inconsistent with and without him. And while he did play better then expected defensively in the playoffs, we still have to remember that he is normally a very average defender.

If the money is right, I would be cool with it. I just hope we dont hear about some 2 year/$10 million contract. If there is anyplace the Wings have decent depth, its on the blueline. Take that money and replenish the wing corps a little bit.

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