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Old
06-14-2007, 09:24 AM
  #1
lundy30
 
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Rangers #1 Need...

Centerman!! With no doubt the rangers need to improve up the middle. Especially if Nylander doesn't sign with NYR this summer. We all know Rangers always made deals but also got players at the end of their career. They'll have to sacrifice some youth if you want to get a mid 20 centerman....i'm thinking RICHARDS or MARLEAU....any thoughts.

Also Iginla's contract runs out as well as Kips contract...no way they'll keep both...If flames are out come deadline day..IGINLA...to NYR...Is it possible...I would love it.

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06-14-2007, 09:29 AM
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nyrcallahan24
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i think the rangers need speed on the first line. The rangers will definatly put callahan on the team, and maybe Dawes

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06-14-2007, 09:31 AM
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yup dawes deserves his chance....it's about time..let's see what he's got.

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06-14-2007, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by lundy30 View Post
yup dawes deserves his chance....it's about time..let's see what he's got.
yah, and last year he tried out for the team and they took him. he played in 1 games, and he did a good job, but then they put him in ahrtford. I call him Hagen Daz (like the ice cream)

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06-14-2007, 10:00 AM
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eh when he played in the beginning of the season he was ok, but hopefully he has a better start and sticks with the big club.

really i wouldn't mind hossa and avery on the 4th line and giving dawes a shot at the 3rd line with cullen and cally, and then move prucah to 2nd line with shanny and who ever else we sign.

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06-14-2007, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Nich View Post
eh when he played in the beginning of the season he was ok, but hopefully he has a better start and sticks with the big club.

really i wouldn't mind hossa and avery on the 4th line and giving dawes a shot at the 3rd line with cullen and cally, and then move prucah to 2nd line with shanny and who ever else we sign.
i think culley, calley, and prut work really well together. Hossa only scores when he's on jags line, and if avery isn't on the same line as a vet. like shanny he would be behaving really bad. He needs a vet. out there to restrain him.

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06-14-2007, 11:41 AM
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A lot of rumours brewing about Drury AND Gomez now. Hence the Nylander stalling.

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06-14-2007, 12:10 PM
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I dont think either of those guys are good replacement for Nylander.

We need Nylander AND a 1b center as well. That is unquestionable.

Accounting for the players available, the projected price/years they would want I'm hoping the Rangers can convince Peter Forsberg to sign a one year Shanny like deal to center our 2nd line and some PP time.

Hossa - Nylander - Jagr
Straka - Forsberg - Shanny
Callahan- Cullen - Avery
Prucha - Betts - Dawes


I'm a bit puzzled of what happens to Orts, Hollweg, Orr.

Oddly enough maybe Colton has the most value since he can break faces. I love Orts and Hollywood but I have to think there are other guys willing to do those jobs who can also hit the net


and what happens if a guy like Ryan Smyth does want to play here. Or Slava Kozlov? For the right deal those guys would add a very interesting dynamic to this team

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06-14-2007, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
I dont think either of those guys are good replacement for Nylander.

We need Nylander AND a 1b center as well. That is unquestionable.

Accounting for the players available, the projected price/years they would want I'm hoping the Rangers can convince Peter Forsberg to sign a one year Shanny like deal to center our 2nd line and some PP time.

Hossa - Nylander - Jagr
Straka - Forsberg - Shanny
Callahan- Cullen - Avery
Prucha - Betts - Dawes



I'm a bit puzzled of what happens to Orts, Hollweg, Orr.

Oddly enough maybe Colton has the most value since he can break faces. I love Orts and Hollywood but I have to think there are other guys willing to do those jobs who can also hit the net


and what happens if a guy like Ryan Smyth does want to play here. Or Slava Kozlov? For the right deal those guys would add a very interesting dynamic to this team
In the playoffs...maybe

For an entire season? No chance, we'd go back to being known as the smurfs with that soft lineup. There is a reason why Orr and Hollweg were extended with 2 year deals, they are gonna fill out the wings on our bottom line for a majority of the season. Wheter anyone wants to admit it or not you need guys who are willing to drop their gloves to stick up for their teammates on a nightly basis. Shanny is tough but he has 1 maybe 2 fights a year in him, and rightfully so, he shouldn't be counted on to fight a few times a week. Avery will fight 4 or 5 times a year but his real value is in someone who agitates. Hollweg and Orr are gonna be on the 4th line. The management has showed they value toughness and the team has showed they can be successful with that lineup.

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06-14-2007, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
In the playoffs...maybe

For an entire season? No chance, we'd go back to being known as the smurfs with that soft lineup. There is a reason why Orr and Hollweg were extended with 2 year deals, they are gonna fill out the wings on our bottom line for a majority of the season. Wheter anyone wants to admit it or not you need guys who are willing to drop their gloves to stick up for their teammates on a nightly basis. Shanny is tough but he has 1 maybe 2 fights a year in him, and rightfully so, he shouldn't be counted on to fight a few times a week. Avery will fight 4 or 5 times a year but his real value is in someone who agitates. Hollweg and Orr are gonna be on the 4th line. The management has showed they value toughness and the team has showed they can be successful with that lineup.

I cant get past that they, despite the grit, have no offensive skills. I think that hurt us, but it hurts us in varying degrees as we go down the lines.

Maybe if the 2nd and 3rd lines could really provide a more consistant offensive threat the 4th line looks good

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06-14-2007, 12:50 PM
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Dawes and Prucha on the Fourth Line is a horrible idea.

Signing Forsberg, well, let me get a bucket.

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06-14-2007, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
Maybe if the 2nd and 3rd lines could really provide a more consistant offensive threat the 4th line looks good
There's nothing wrong with the Fourth Line. They do their jobs......just fine.

You're absolutely correct about the 2nd and 3rd Lines.

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06-14-2007, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
A lot of rumours brewing about Drury AND Gomez now. Hence the Nylander stalling.
You sure it isn't Nylander stalling that is causing the rumors or are you positive that the rumors are causing the stalling?

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06-14-2007, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy30 View Post
Centerman!! With no doubt the rangers need to improve up the middle. Especially if Nylander doesn't sign with NYR this summer. We all know Rangers always made deals but also got players at the end of their career. They'll have to sacrifice some youth if you want to get a mid 20 centerman....i'm thinking RICHARDS or MARLEAU....any thoughts.

Also Iginla's contract runs out as well as Kips contract...no way they'll keep both...If flames are out come deadline day..IGINLA...to NYR...Is it possible...I would love it.
If Keenan does indeed head to Calgary, I highly doubt he would part with Iginla. He is the prototypical Keenan foward. He would probably have his best season under Keenan also.

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06-14-2007, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Dawes and Prucha on the Fourth Line is a horrible idea.

Signing Forsberg, well, let me get a bucket.
i agree, and i hate forsberg. Prucha is good with culley, and calley. He gives the line more speed. Dawes should be on 2nd with shanny and avery.

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06-14-2007, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
I cant get past that they, despite the grit, have no offensive skills. I think that hurt us, but it hurts us in varying degrees as we go down the lines.

Maybe if the 2nd and 3rd lines could really provide a more consistant offensive threat the 4th line looks good
I agree with that. In order to be successful we need to get balanced scoring from our top 3 lines. When we were surging at the end of last year thats precisely what was happening, we were getting points from guys like Avery, Prucha, Callahan, Cullen etc.
Our 4th line we currently have of Hollweg-Betts-Orr (assuming orts doesn't get resigned) provide exactly what we need from a 4th line. They are defensive minded, they provide a spark to the team, and the two wingers aren't afraid to drop their mitts. I think after seeing Anaheims success this year alot of teams are gonna revert back to dressing a few tough guys in their lineup. I liked that towards the end of last year we were consistently dressing one of the toughest teams in the Eastern Conference night in and night out while at the same time winning

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06-14-2007, 01:11 PM
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i agree, and i hate forsberg. Prucha is good with culley, and calley. He gives the line more speed. Dawes should be on 2nd with shanny and avery.
You know, I really hope Dawes can live up to all the hype I see, in here. I would love for him to turn into a major offensive threat.

But thus far, I really don't get it with him. I just don't see what all the hoopla is about. I very much liked what I saw of him at the AHL level. But at the NHL level he looked out of his element and out of place. Hopefully he gets an opportunity to play on the Second Line, where his offensive skills can be better utilized.

He has no business being on the Fourth Line. He can't handle those duties.

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06-14-2007, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
You know, I really hope Dawes can live up to all the hype I see, in here. I would love for him to turn into a major offensive threat.

But thus far, I really don't get it with him. I just don't see what all the hoopla is about. I very much liked what I saw of him at the AHL level. But at the NHL level he looked out of his element and out of place. Hopefully he gets an opportunity to play on the Second Line, where his offensive skills can be better utilized.

He has no business being on the Fourth Line. He can't handle those duties.
i dont think he's a fighter, unlike his team mate Montoya . he would be better on one of the top lines because of his ability to score goals

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06-14-2007, 01:36 PM
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Our wings are too congested, Dawes will likely be the odd man out again this year and probablly will be moved sooner than later.

Now if Shanny didn't come back we'd have a little more room on the wings.

Straka/Nyls/Jagr
Prucha/UFA/Cally
Hossa/Cullen/Avery
Orts/Betts/Orr/Hollweg


Last edited by Barbara Underhill: 06-14-2007 at 01:41 PM.
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06-14-2007, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Graf22 View Post
Our wings are too congested, Dawes will likely be the odd man out again this year and probablly will be moved sooner than later.

Now if Shanny didn't come back we'd have a little more room on the wings.

Straka/Nyls/Jagr
Prucha/UFA/Dawes
Hossa/Cullen/Avery
Orts/Betts/Orr/Hollweg

Where is Cally?

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06-14-2007, 01:41 PM
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Barbara Underhill
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Fixed... I meant Cally over Dawes to begin with.

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06-14-2007, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
Hossa - Nylander - Jagr
Straka - Forsberg - Shanny
Callahan- Cullen - Avery
Prucha - Betts - Dawes

While many complain about the Rangers grit, it was secondary scoring that did them in. Many think Avery's presence was purely physical and that was the sparkplug, but it was the ability to have scoring beyond the 1st line that helped this ultra-defensive team win close contests. Avery allowed the Rangers to re-distribute talent. Prior to Avery, the Rangers were the losing the largest bunch of 1 goal games I've ever seen. Like many fans, I believe only incremental upgrades are warranted.

1st Line:
Straka-Nylander-Jagr:

Many forget after Hossa, how dominating this line was. It easily had a 5:2 ratio (5/7 games they dominated the opponents, multi-point nights; 2/7 games they were invisible). Hossa NEVER made the the first line better, but he didn't overly water it down to make it ineffective. Hossa on the 1st was more of a product of having Straka help out elsewhere. Watch the 1st 15 games of the season. Even with Jagr's one arm, they were destroying the league. Marcel's line never matched this success.

Line Dynamic:
Straka: Neutral zone puck carrier; Speedy Forechecker
Nylander: Playmaker, Offensive zone puck carrier
Jagr: Finisher; Below circles puck control

2nd Line:
Prucha-Gomez-Shanahan

Gomez is the only pivot that makes this line work. His all-world playmaking skills take advantage of Prucha's and Shanahan's finishing skills plus has the speed to compensate for Brendan's lack of foot speed. Prucha needs a very capable playmaker and a puck carrier on his line. Gomez does both. Outside of a Gomez, Prucha is back at bottom line duty as an energy player and and his main production would be on the PP.

Line Dynamic:
Prucha: Forechecker/Cause Turnovers: After Shanahan gains the zone; Would play above the circles and move in for one-timers
Gomez: Playmaker, Neutral Zone Puck Carrier
Shanahan: General Shooter; work down low and in crease while Gomez/Prucha are working higher in the zone

3rd Line:
Avery-Cullen-Callahan

Harnessing more of a speed, than size checking line. However, in Renney's system, positioning is much more important than size/physicality as evidenced by Betts/Cullen's success in the 3rd&4th line center role. Cullen while not physically imposing, will throw his body around and this is a protypical, smart up and down, honest 3rd line with the ability to score 45+ goals. Avery is not best suited for center. With less ice covering responsibility, this allows him to play his agitating style more effectively.

Line Dynamic
Avery: When back at LW, a much better forechecker. Doesn't need an excellent playmaker so is better w/ a marginal one in Cullen
Cullen: Puck carrier; 2-way defensive speed
Callahan: Good Forechecker; 2-way player with great defensive upside

4th Line:

Hossa/Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer/Orr

A 4th line that can play a responsible 8+ minutes/gm. While many have clamored for more 4th line scoring, Betts was a -4 and that is damn good for a 4th line. Ideally, this line has at least one banger on it at all times for energy. I propose it in two varieties:

Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer - general use, one heavy hitter in Hollweg, Betts and Ortmeyer are good at filling the necessary rolling 4 lines icetime as well as 4+ minutes of PK work

Hossa-Betts-Orr - dress this line when you need the nuclear option of Orr. Need a more defensively responsible linemate (and less PIM taking) option in Hossa. While still not a huge Hossa booster, I think he's more important to step into the 1st line (with a still potentially wonky Straka shoulder/bicep) then penciling him in initially.

Line Dynamic:
Hollweg: Sparkplug, heavy hitter, agitator; middle-weight
Betts: Two-way; shooter; Heavy PK workload
Ortmeyer: Forechecker, shot blocker; neutral zone backchecking; Heavy PK workload

Hossa: deep puck control/offensive zone time waster (not an insult, a positive for a 4th line); Defensive forward; PK duty
Orr: Heavyweight

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06-14-2007, 02:09 PM
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And before anyone jumps down my throat for missing the latest and greatest youngsters, they pencil in as replacements for certain roles upon injuries.

Of all the players in Hartford, one could make the assessment that only Dawes is ready for top 6 work. He would jump into either Prucha's or Avery's slot upon injury.

Dubinsky upon probably another half season in the AHL, could take Cullen's slot.

Byers and Korpedo are options to replace the wings on the 4th line (or if they have an impressive camp).

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06-14-2007, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
While many complain about the Rangers grit, it was secondary scoring that did them in. Many think Avery's presence was purely physical and that was the sparkplug, but it was the ability to have scoring beyond the 1st line that helped this ultra-defensive team win close contests. Avery allowed the Rangers to re-distribute talent. Prior to Avery, the Rangers were the losing the largest bunch of 1 goal games I've ever seen. Like many fans, I believe only incremental upgrades are warranted.

1st Line:
Straka-Nylander-Jagr:

Many forget after Hossa, how dominating this line was. It easily had a 5:2 ratio (5/7 games they dominated the opponents, multi-point nights; 2/7 games they were invisible). Hossa NEVER made the the first line better, but he didn't overly water it down to make it ineffective. Hossa on the 1st was more of a product of having Straka help out elsewhere. Watch the 1st 15 games of the season. Even with Jagr's one arm, they were destroying the league. Marcel's line never matched this success.

Line Dynamic:
Straka: Neutral zone puck carrier; Speedy Forechecker
Nylander: Playmaker, Offensive zone puck carrier
Jagr: Finisher; Below circles puck control

2nd Line:
Prucha-Gomez-Shanahan

Gomez is the only pivot that makes this line work. His all-world playmaking skills take advantage of Prucha's and Shanahan's finishing skills plus has the speed to compensate for Brendan's lack of foot speed. Prucha needs a very capable playmaker and a puck carrier on his line. Gomez does both. Outside of a Gomez, Prucha is back at bottom line duty as an energy player and and his main production would be on the PP.

Line Dynamic:
Prucha: Forechecker/Cause Turnovers: After Shanahan gains the zone; Would play above the circles and move in for one-timers
Gomez: Playmaker, Neutral Zone Puck Carrier
Shanahan: General Shooter; work down low and in crease while Gomez/Prucha are working higher in the zone

3rd Line:
Avery-Cullen-Callahan

Harnessing more of a speed, than size checking line. However, in Renney's system, positioning is much more important than size/physicality as evidenced by Betts/Cullen's success in the 3rd&4th line center role. Cullen while not physically imposing, will throw his body around and this is a protypical, smart up and down, honest 3rd line with the ability to score 45+ goals. Avery is not best suited for center. With less ice covering responsibility, this allows him to play his agitating style more effectively.

Line Dynamic
Avery: When back at LW, a much better forechecker. Doesn't need an excellent playmaker so is better w/ a marginal one in Cullen
Cullen: Puck carrier; 2-way defensive speed
Callahan: Good Forechecker; 2-way player with great defensive upside

4th Line:

Hossa/Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer/Orr

A 4th line that can play a responsible 8+ minutes/gm. While many have clamored for more 4th line scoring, Betts was a -4 and that is damn good for a 4th line. Ideally, this line has at least one banger on it at all times for energy. I propose it in two varieties:

Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer - general use, one heavy hitter in Hollweg, Betts and Ortmeyer are good at filling the necessary rolling 4 lines icetime as well as 4+ minutes of PK work

Hossa-Betts-Orr - dress this line when you need the nuclear option of Orr. Need a more defensively responsible linemate (and less PIM taking) option in Hossa. While still not a huge Hossa booster, I think he's more important to step into the 1st line (with a still potentially wonky Straka shoulder/bicep) then penciling him in initially.

Line Dynamic:
Hollweg: Sparkplug, heavy hitter, agitator; middle-weight
Betts: Two-way; shooter; Heavy PK workload
Ortmeyer: Forechecker, shot blocker; neutral zone backchecking; Heavy PK workload

Hossa: deep puck control/offensive zone time waster (not an insult, a positive for a 4th line); Defensive forward; PK duty
Orr: Heavyweight


Great Post!!

Would this type of lineup be cap feasible?

If we retain Shanny and Nylander. Resign our RFA's - Hossa, Avery, Prucha, Lundy. Sign Gomez. It may be close.

The only thing I would change is, not resign Shanny and give Dawes a legit shot at playing on the #2 line with Gomez and Prucha. This type of move would also give us a little more financial flexibility with the difference between Dawes and Shannys salary

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06-14-2007, 02:33 PM
  #25
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Great post frozen!

I got one problem with it though, Prucha and Shanahan on the same line. Shanahan aren't getting the job done down low. He is talked about as a PF, but he really doesn't play that style. A PF in my mind is a Gary Roberts type, someone who is really strong along the boards, wins physical battles, fends people off ect. Shanahan is more of a really smart sniper.

Shanahan played LW in Det's LW-lock, he player RW for us and our RW is supposed to cover defensivly. It was along time ago he played a PF game.

When Prucha and Shanahan played together the results was often that Prucha ended up along the boards, and got seperated too easily off the puck. Both Prucha and Shanny are trigger happy, they would enter the zone fast with Gomez, and leave it fast too, they aren't playing smart enough together to substain pressure without someone dooing the PF job...

I want Briere!

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