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Are the Oilers more talented than the Flames

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Old
12-28-2003, 06:58 AM
  #26
rabi_sultan
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thats ok guys i'll try and not go on power trips and i apologise to g2k for callin him our resident madman its just i dont want things going sour for no reasons, access to the mod board and reading some of the threads that do go out of hand i noticed it was from little comments like the ones made. the results from those overgrown threads that hurl insults are warnings and bans and thats not something i want oiler posters here to be subjected to as i can't think of a single bad poster here.

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12-28-2003, 07:42 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
thats ok guys i'll try and not go on power trips and i apologise to g2k for callin him our resident madman its just i dont want things going sour for no reasons, access to the mod board and reading some of the threads that do go out of hand i noticed it was from little comments like the ones made. the results from those overgrown threads that hurl insults are warnings and bans and thats not something i want oiler posters here to be subjected to as i can't think of a single bad poster here.
Well, we tend to police ourselves a bit here. Normally, when anything begins to get out of hand, someone on the boards comes along and stops it whether it be a mod or another poster. I don't think you'll necessarily see the "flame" eruption here as opposed to other places. Most here wouldn't tolerate it.

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12-28-2003, 08:28 AM
  #28
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Good job, Rabi. You handled the situation quite well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northern2020
rabi- we don't have to clamp it because we are new- i am not new, just new to posting- and is'nt this a "forum"=free speech
This is something many posters have actually told me when it comes to disputes with myself or other moderators. 'Forum' is not synonomous with free speech. So, no, there is not 'free speech' on this board. This is a privatly run messageboard and servers, and the owners of this board have layed down some rules (which are located in the 'FAQ' up top). Here is an example of one of these rules:

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Originally Posted by HF's Rules and Guidelines
g) Making threats, libelous comments, or attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. This is simple as calling someone an idiot, or as complex as calling them something in another language.
Now every moderator is open to apply their own interpretation of these rules. I know of some moderators who are very lax, and allow people to engage in, 'You're a moron!'.. 'You're stupid!' arguements, and that's fine. I also know of other moderators who will warn/ban someone over calling someone a 'troll' or a 'homer'. No kidding.

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12-28-2003, 08:49 AM
  #29
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I'm not prepared to admit that a team that has Gelinas and McAmmond playing significant roles on offense is more talented than the Oilers but there are clearly improvements afoot down south. The Flames have a very talented back end although I still think Gauthier could be gone when Phaneuf is ready because of the way he plays. I don't think Sutter will tolerate it past the point where he has an alternative.

And the team is clearly enjoying themselves right now. I am not convinced they have the offensive talent to sustain their roll and they have a very hot goalie at the moment. That said I would think that the Oilers are not nearly as bad as the last 15 games have made them look and the Flames are not as good as the last 15 games have made them look. Both teams are in that 6 to 10 bunch in the western conference. Now, if the Flames can translate Iginla into two good offensive players plus a pick I believe they will be a better 'team' than they are now.

Somebody mentioned that the Oilers have some very good players but the 'team' is not there at the moment. I agree with that. Lowe has been re-shaping the focus of the team without a lot of regard for the final look - just acquiring pieces. With Salo losing his form for much of this year and not there to bail out the defence it has really shown.

Flames or Oilers more talented? Except for about 4 teams at the top and 4 teams at the bottom this league is so close that it is like the weather in Alberta, don't like it? wait a couple of hours.

Final word. What I have said before, here. When the Flames and Oilers are fighting it out for best in the west will be plenty of time to renew the rivalry. I hope the Flames make the playoffs, they need it. Surely we can find somebody else to beat out.

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12-28-2003, 09:13 AM
  #30
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another point about the flames, perhaps someone can answer this.

how long has their team been together? for sure the oilers team has changed a lot over the last 12months so that would factor in if the bulk of the calgary roster hasn't changed.

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Old
12-28-2003, 10:07 AM
  #31
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I'm not so ready to jump on the bandwagon of the Flames yet. Sutter has done some amazing things with that team though. Lombardi looks like a top 2 line center for a long time to come. Leopold looks like the second coming of Niedermayer. After that I'm not so sold on Calgary. Phaneuf will be a stud, but then again I think Wowitka and him are pretty damn comparable.

Kiprusoff gives me flashbacks of Turek when he first arrived. Look how much he struggled last year for San Jose. I'm not ready to proclaim him a bonafide #1 until he has played this well for at least the rest of this season.

My other question is what happens with Iginla after this season. If they qualify him at 7.5 Million he's making this year, Calgary will have 12 Million tied up in 2 players(turek and Iginla). That has to hurt their budget badly.

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Old
12-28-2003, 12:17 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
another point about the flames, perhaps someone can answer this.

how long has their team been together? for sure the oilers team has changed a lot over the last 12months so that would factor in if the bulk of the calgary roster hasn't changed.
its changed a fair amount actually, although maybe less than Edmonton's

alot of people (not necessarily on this board, just in general)seem to think the Flames will choke because they did in the winter of 2001-02. the following players are new since then: Kiprussof,McLennan, Leopold, Warrener,Montador(was on the farm),Reinprecht,Yelle,Lombardi,Kobasew,Gelinas,Green,Oliwa,Morgan,Saprykin (was on the farm), Donovan,Ferrence

players in bold new since last years trade deadline (not including prodigal son Dean McAmmond)

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Old
12-28-2003, 12:17 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
Okay........just what name did he call Mizral?

Certainly not the "resident madman" like you recently refered to me as.......

What did Northern call Mizral? NOTHING.....he just agreed with someone.

Just admit it.....you were trying to power trip....

hey...thanks for stickin up for me...as to name calling rabi s...there were no adjectives in my post to mirzal..no doubt newbies will not post here if policing occurs so quickly as it did here. I belong to an Audi car enthusiast forum and it makes this forum feel like being in "church"- I am here to have a good time and be honest with opinions..no offense was intended..lets just have a good time and prey they win tonight

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Old
12-28-2003, 12:21 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
I'm not so ready to jump on the bandwagon of the Flames yet. Sutter has done some amazing things with that team though. Lombardi looks like a top 2 line center for a long time to come. Leopold looks like the second coming of Niedermayer. After that I'm not so sold on Calgary. Phaneuf will be a stud, but then again I think Wowitka and him are pretty damn comparable.


My other question is what happens with Iginla after this season. If they qualify him at 7.5 Million he's making this year, Calgary will have 12 Million tied up in 2 players(turek and Iginla). That has to hurt their budget badly.
point 1. Woywitka v Phaneuf. I like Woywitka, but I'm sure most in Red Deer would agree, Phaneuf is the more impressive prospect at age 18

point 2. Iginla (who needs to be qualifed at 7.0) and Turek would definetly eat up alot of our payroll, but no more so than this year, and we' re below the 35 M line (minus Werenka and Buzek who will finally be stricken from the list) without almost everyone of significance (save Gauthier I think, and possibly Kiprusoff) signed for next year(obviously not including pending ufa conroy, but if he goes, then his 2m + against the payroll goes to). don't get me wrong, Iggy's dollar figures are prohibitive, but I guess I just think we COULD accomodate his salary if necessary

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Old
12-28-2003, 01:48 PM
  #35
elphy101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looooob
point 1. Woywitka v Phaneuf. I like Woywitka, but I'm sure most in Red Deer would agree, Phaneuf is the more impressive prospect at age 18
Yep, Phaneuf has been more impressive at age 17 and 18. However, Wowitka took huge steps forward as a 19 year old. Phaneuf will probably do the same but it's not guaranteed.

However, don't get me wrong, I would take Phaneuf over Wowitka although I don't think the gap is that far apart.

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Old
12-28-2003, 01:57 PM
  #36
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Eric Brewer looks like he's sleeping out there, Alexei Semenov has been very disappointing, Bergeron has been less than stellar and Cory Cross is his usual pilon self
Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Brew's game has really picked up the last while, and is looking like our best defenseman again.

Semenov looks in fine form, like last year.

Bergie has been more quite as of late, but what do you expect from a rookie who is in his first full year?

Cross has looked better as of late too. As long as he plays with confidence and is limited to a 5th/6th defenseman role, he'll be fine.

The Oilers' D has improved, the question is how long until it crumbs again?

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Old
12-28-2003, 02:47 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looooob
point 1. Woywitka v Phaneuf. I like Woywitka, but I'm sure most in Red Deer would agree, Phaneuf is the more impressive prospect at age 18

point 2. Iginla (who needs to be qualifed at 7.0) and Turek would definetly eat up alot of our payroll, but no more so than this year, and we' re below the 35 M line (minus Werenka and Buzek who will finally be stricken from the list) without almost everyone of significance (save Gauthier I think, and possibly Kiprusoff) signed for next year(obviously not including pending ufa conroy, but if he goes, then his 2m + against the payroll goes to). don't get me wrong, Iggy's dollar figures are prohibitive, but I guess I just think we COULD accomodate his salary if necessary
I agree, they can handle Iginla's contract especially if they get him to renegotiate for any lower. I hope they don't do anything stupid.

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Old
12-28-2003, 03:16 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruezer
I agree, they can handle Iginla's contract especially if they get him to renegotiate for any lower. I hope they don't do anything stupid.
They can handle Iginla's contract, but it just wouldn't be very cost effective. The flames have a limited amount payroll, and spending 7 million on a guy who is a 35 goal scorer is not an intelligent use of funds. In any case, I wouldn't worry about it too much if I was a flames fan. I'm sure they could get fair return, as this isn't like the Comrie situation.

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Old
12-28-2003, 05:41 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rage
They can handle Iginla's contract, but it just wouldn't be very cost effective. The flames have a limited amount payroll, and spending 7 million on a guy who is a 35 goal scorer is not an intelligent use of funds. In any case, I wouldn't worry about it too much if I was a flames fan. I'm sure they could get fair return, as this isn't like the Comrie situation.
True, it doesn't much fit into the salary structure, but I think since it really seems that he is just a 35 goal man, then we can pay for him like that when his next contract comes around.

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Old
12-28-2003, 06:34 PM
  #40
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To get back to the point of the thread:

1) Goal - Salo has not been the same since the Olympics. Before Kipper arrived, I'd say Salo and Turek were pretty close (slight edge to the Oil), but both are inconsistant. Right now there is no discussion over whose goaltending is better.

2) Defence - This is what Flames fans have been preaching for years now "wait for that young D to gel......." Well, it has begun.
Once again, right now there is no discussion over whose D is better

3) Offence - I think most people would say that the Oilers have more depth at forward for sometime now. But, losing Comrie, Marchant, Carter, Weight......and not properly replacing them has hurt.
To tell you the truth, I think that for the past couple years the Oil have overachieved, while the Flames have underacheived. Deep down inside, I really don't see that much difference between the 2 here, but since it is the Oilers board, and they are shut out so far, I'll give a slight edge to the Oil.

So overall, I would say the Flames are the more talented team

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Old
12-28-2003, 08:04 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Do Oil fans, considering the situations so far this year for the Flames and Oilers, still feel they are the more 'talented' club?
Yes.....that is all.

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Old
12-28-2003, 08:06 PM
  #42
elphy101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAMESFAN

So overall, I would say the Flames are the more talented team
Yep, right now the Flames have been the better team for the last month and a half. Let's at least wait till the end of this regular season before getting too excited.

Calgary has a great defense. I don't like their forwards that much though. I'm still not sold on Kipper though, he's been a great goalie for a month and a half. But alot have goalies go on runs. Hell even Turek when he first arrived in Calgary, played as well as Kipper.

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Old
12-28-2003, 08:09 PM
  #43
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The Flames have a hotter goalie right now and are MUCH better coached.

That is all.....

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Old
12-28-2003, 09:10 PM
  #44
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Why is posing a question trolling?

Seriously, I'd like to know.

With my luck this post will be called trolling now :p

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Old
12-28-2003, 09:21 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
Okay......I'm confused.

Are you mistakenly in the wrong thread or something? Because this is the first thing you've said in this thread.

.....your question was?
Sorry, I was refering to those accusing Miz of constantly "posting to kick others when they are down".

I read his post and I didn't see a *single* statement in his post really. Just a number of questions. Is this no longer acceptable? Just seems a little silly to me. But ah well.

As to the thread topic-I think the Oilers have more talent. The Calgary D is getting insane credit right now. I do think they have a solid D core-but to me it is more the defensive system and the forwards' aggressive backchecking that has Calgary's GAA near the top in the NHL-along with the hottest goalie in hockey. It can't last forever. The Oilers also have more skilled depth than the Flames-both on the NHL roster AND in their farm system. I think the Oilers are stocked for years to come personally-and if the CBA works out-they could be scary. Calgary is certainly a much improved team than the last 7 years-but thats not saying a whole lot. I think by the end of the year the Flames and Oilers will be battling for 7th-10th spots. In the future-I really like the Oilers, but the Flames could be really good as well.

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Old
12-28-2003, 09:22 PM
  #46
gretzky2kurri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner
Why is posing a question trolling?

Seriously, I'd like to know.

With my luck this post will be called trolling now :p
Watch it!

There's a new sheriff in town.

His name is RabiCop......

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Old
12-28-2003, 09:26 PM
  #47
gretzky2kurri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner
Sorry, I was refering to those accusing Miz of constantly "posting to kick others when they are down".

I read his post and I didn't see a *single* statement in his post really. Just a number of questions. Is this no longer acceptable? Just seems a little silly to me. But ah well.
I guess if I could hand you a stack of post he's done at THIS site, you might begin to understand our frustration with this guy.

Unfortunately I'm too damn lazy to dig all them up over the past couple years. But a fair share of them are "well timed" with a face rubbing intention.

Trust us on this one.

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Old
12-28-2003, 09:42 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
The Flames have a hotter goalie right now and are MUCH better coached.

That is all.....
Are you making a point g2k? Or is tonight just really weird for you saying the same thing as me?

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Old
12-28-2003, 09:45 PM
  #49
gretzky2kurri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Are you making a point g2k? Or is tonight just really weird for you saying the same thing as me?
I was making a point.

But..........we may not be as different as you may think.

I'm thinking of changing my name to "LoudmouthReasonerfan" someday.

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Old
12-28-2003, 10:00 PM
  #50
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
I was making a point.

But..........we may not be as different as you may think.

I'm thinking of changing my name to "LoudmouthReasonerfan" someday.
A solid choice. It'd be nice to have 83 Hemskyfan's, but that's gonna take a while.

I really enjoy making the short comments and waiting for someone to make the "blah blah blah qualify that you ignorant blah blah blah". Posters that know me won't do it because they understand I'm making a point and trying to goad people.....posters that don't, get the wrath

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