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Koivu vs Ribiero (THE POLL)

View Poll Results: Who is the better player?
Saku Koivu 87 90.63%
Mike Ribiero 9 9.38%
Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-23-2003, 01:12 PM
  #1
Nielson81
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Koivu vs Ribiero (THE POLL)

Guys,

Lets end this right now.

I'm not asking who is more skilled, who deserves what spot. I'm simply asking who is the better player.

Koivu or Ribiero.

Lets get our answer and move on.
Unbiased Canadian

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12-23-2003, 01:48 PM
  #2
IceHeart
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It sounds like a funny joke for me...Ribeiro WHO?




BTW,almost forget to ask...in your opinion who is better d-man Markov or Traverse? Because i don't know which one to choose for my fantasy hockey team...lol

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12-23-2003, 02:12 PM
  #3
KILLger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceHeart
BTW,almost forget to ask...in your opinion who is better d-man Markov or Traverse? Because i don't know which one to choose for my fantasy hockey team...lol
You need Traverse's size!

(voted Koivu, Ribeiro is OK, but not great...)

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Old
12-23-2003, 02:38 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbiased Canadian
Guys,

Lets end this right now.

I'm not asking who is more skilled, who deserves what spot. I'm simply asking who is the better player.

Koivu or Ribiero.

Lets get our answer and move on.
Unbiased Canadian

the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx th threads about Koivu vs Ribiero of the week ....

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Old
12-23-2003, 02:39 PM
  #5
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I choose to cancel my vote. In protest to the idea that we actually had to come to a poll to determine which one between Koivu and Ribeiro was better. Like it matters. After that what? We decide who we keep? Because god forbid we should have two talented players on the same team (my goodness what a scary thought).

And the epidemic spreads on...

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12-24-2003, 03:52 AM
  #6
Mats NAslund
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbiased Canadian
Guys,

Lets end this right now.

I'm not asking who is more skilled, who deserves what spot. I'm simply asking who is the better player.

Koivu or Ribiero.

Lets get our answer and move on.
Unbiased Canadian
This poll is rediculous .....Koivu is much better!

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Old
12-24-2003, 04:19 AM
  #7
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We should really move away from a "it's this guy OR that one" philosophy, and towards a "these guys are both good, so let's keep 'em cause we need 2 offensive centers" mentality. One is an established first-line center. The other is still young and establishing himself as a second-line center this year. Let's just hope Koivu can keep dominating off. and def. like he has, and that Ribeiro can continually improve and build on his huge talent.

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12-24-2003, 06:43 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrophile
We should really move away from a "it's this guy OR that one" philosophy, and towards a "these guys are both good, so let's keep 'em cause we need 2 offensive centers" mentality. One is an established first-line center. The other is still young and establishing himself as a second-line center this year. Let's just hope Koivu can keep dominating off. and def. like he has, and that Ribeiro can continually improve and build on his huge talent.

Amen. It's been my position all along. It should have never been Koivu vs Ribeiro since they are not fighting for the same job !

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12-24-2003, 07:27 AM
  #9
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I really don't see the point of this poll...

Koivu without the shadow of a doubt, even if I'm a big fan of Ribs

and it's RIBEIRO NOT RIBIERO



Last edited by BigM1ke: 12-24-2003 at 09:03 AM.
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Old
12-24-2003, 08:17 AM
  #10
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Useless pool

Everyone know that Koivu is better than Ribeiro .

 
Old
12-24-2003, 09:32 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by HABS-65
Useless pool

Everyone know that Koivu is better than Ribeiro .

I think you're right for now (but not by much). Ribeiro is 23 and Saku is 29 so with 6 years of experience I wiss Saku's better !

But just explain why !

Don't repeat what everyones says like "better all-around"....that's doesn't mean a lot without real arguments (good back-checking, good passer, good vision, etc).

For those who says Saku is a good all-around player....did you see Bondra goal ?

 
Old
12-24-2003, 09:40 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leprechaun
I think you're right for now (but not by much). Ribeiro is 23 and Saku is 29 so with 6 years of experience I wiss Saku's better !

But just explain why !

Don't repeat what everyones says like "better all-around"....that's doesn't mean a lot without real arguments (good back-checking, good passer, good vision, etc).

For those who says Saku is a good all-around player....did you see Bondra goal ?
Yeah. That was Rivet's man. Good to see fans that believe Ribeiro's close to Koivu in talent know how to analyze a play. :p

Did you see Ribeiro's gorgeous pass to Bondra on the PP, setting him up for a breakaway?

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12-24-2003, 10:05 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Leprechaun
I think you're right for now (but not by much). Ribeiro is 23 and Saku is 29 so with 6 years of experience I wiss Saku's better !

But just explain why !

Don't repeat what everyones says like "better all-around"....that's doesn't mean a lot without real arguments (good back-checking, good passer, good vision, etc).

For those who says Saku is a good all-around player....did you see Bondra goal ?

Ribeiro is for sure an excellent playmaker and he is close from Saku but the Question is who is better now , Saku is actually better but in a couple of years Ribeiro will probably be better with a lot of experience he will become a 70 points player and probably more . And no Saku is not better All - Around .

 
Old
12-24-2003, 10:07 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Mike8
Yeah. That was Rivet's man. Good to see fans that believe Ribeiro's close to Koivu in talent know how to analyze a play. :p

Did you see Ribeiro's gorgeous pass to Bondra on the PP, setting him up for a breakaway?

Re Yeah. Rivet was playing man-to-man with Grier and he was on Grier but Souray and Saku was playing tourist there....anyway, that was not my point !

My point was WHY Saku is better ?

For me they are pretty close and the edge of Saku is only his experience !

 
Old
12-24-2003, 10:09 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by HABS-65
Ribeiro is for sure an excellent playmaker and he is close from Saku but the Question is who is better now , Saku is actually better but in a couple of years Ribeiro will probably be better with a lot of experience he will become a 70 points player and probably more . And no Saku is not better All - Around .
Totally agree with you

 
Old
12-24-2003, 10:36 AM
  #16
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Why you say?

Ribeiro does not play 60 min yet, Koivu does.

Koivu plays a fireball type of game where he mistakes himself for a PF, Ribeiro plays a soft type of game.

Koivu has already as many goals as Ribeiro despite playing less games.

Koivu can play PK, PP, 5 on5 against any opposition regardless of size, he can also play the points and LW. Ribeiro can play only C effectively, he cannot play the point, he can't play against the best checkers or the biggest centers, he's atrocious on the PK(remember against Sundin last year LOL).

Koivu can give a good bodycheck. Ribeiro can check, but he's the one that falls down.

Koivu always makes crisp passes. Ribeiro often makes turnover passes.

Koivu is the captain, is Ribeiro anything more then Theos friend?

Koivu is fast, Ribeiro is slow.

Koivu is good in all three zones, sure he does mistakes, but Ribeiro is effective in one zone, and he has yet to dominate during a game whereas Koivu has dominated many games already this year.

Koivu is very strong, Ribeiro is weak.

Koivu plays with emotion, grit, passion and he's dirty. Ribeiro wants but can't, he doesn't scare a fly either.

This one is not even close, I like Ribeiro and I hope he'll be a real 80+ points 1st line center, but come on, even if he does, he'll never be as good as Koivu. Koivu at 23 was a heck of a lot better then Ribeiro is at 23.

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:11 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABS-65
And no Saku is not better All - Around .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leprechaun
Rivet was playing man-to-man with Grier and he was on Grier but Souray and Saku was playing tourist there....anyway, that was not my point !

My point was WHY Saku is better ?

For me they are pretty close and the edge of Saku is only his experience !
There's really no point in arguing opinion, but Koivu's better in every facet of the game. He produces more, he's far stronger along the boards, he drives the net better, he gets under the opposition's skin, he's a superior skater with more gears and plays far better in traffic. Koivu doesn't appear to be as creative because he makes safer plays and makes them quickly with no hesitation or fancy moves. Much of the creativity that Ribeiro displays is junior-aged hot-dogging moves.

I'm not denying that Ribeiro's creative. He is, and I've never doubted that he is a talented playmaker. But his plays are high risk, softer passes that are often intercepted in the offensive and neutral zone (a la the pass to Souray which Bondra intercepted for a breakaway). Those types of plays can't happen, but they're a constant with Ribeiro. He's cut them down this season, but there's still at least one big giveaway per game that results in a scoring chance due to Ribeiro.

Koivu's lined up against the opposition's scoring line, while Ribeiro's lined up against the opposition's weakest two-way line. There's a reason for this: Julien recognizes Ribeiro is the team's weakest center in the defensive zone, and he's still not polished offensively in that he'll make high risk plays that can result in turnovers. This is how a coach should handle a young center; placing them in a situation where they can succeed. But some fans (like you and HABS65) don't seem to realize that Ribeiro's getting better quality ice time (eg. weaker opposition) than a Koivu, Juneau or Begin is, so that he's more likely to get better scoring opportunities.

I don't want to cut down Ribeiro's play. He's much improved, and I like the dedication he's shown this year. I'm still not pleased with his play in the defensive zone or neutral zone, and I find he still takes long shifts, whereas you'll notice Koivu is usually the first man off on his line for a change in shifts. This is important as the shorter shifts are kept, the higher intensity the team can play throughout a game.

Most importantly, Koivu's a warrior. If he's going through a scoring slump, then he'll dedicate his game to playing more physically or playing stronger in his own zone. He has more to his game than just scoring, and this has been developed over the years. He'll aim to drive the net more, draw penalties, and he'll take runs at the opposition to spark his team. There's VERY few players that will play with the amount of intensity and dedication in the league as Koivu, and even fewer who can put points on the board as he can.

Ribeiro shows some signs every so often of having grit, but he's a point producer first and foremost, and not a consistent one at that (yet).

Honestly, I don't see much point in comparing the two players. It's clear that Koivu is the leader of this team, and he's an excellent player for any team to have. Ribeiro's exceeded my expectations this season and developed his game, but he's still got a ways to go. I think it's a fantastic opportunity for him to be the second line center to another creative smallish center, so he doesn't have the burden of offense, and can round out his game.

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Old
12-24-2003, 11:47 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Habsaku
Why you say?

Ribeiro does not play 60 min yet, Koivu does.
That sentence doesn't mean a thing and it's pretty empty. If you mean that Ribs doesn't score when it counts look to those numbers

When the score is tied:
Saku 0 goal and 5 assists
Ribeiro 3 goals and 8 assists


Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Koivu plays a fireball type of game where he mistakes himself for a PF, Ribeiro plays a soft type of game..
Knowing what king of player you are is bad ? I don't want to see Wayne Gretzky playing like a PF or Cam Neely playing a soft game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Koivu has already as many goals as Ribeiro despite playing less games.
You're right on that. I think Saku's better now in the scoring department but don't forget the 6 years between the two.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Koivu can play PK, PP, 5 on5 against any opposition regardless of size, he can also play the points and LW. Ribeiro can play only C effectively, he cannot play the point, he can't play against the best checkers or the biggest centers, he's atrocious on the PK(remember against Sundin last year LOL
Koivu play well at 5on5 and PP but he's average at PK and regardless of size, he doesn't afraid many player. Don't get me wrong, I love is heart but when it's time to body checking he's well above-average on that side. Koivu can't play at LW (like Ribs) because of his size and about playing the point he said yesterday that he doesn't like playing the point on PP.

Anyway, it's pretty rare that a young player plays well on the PK and it takes time (experience) for doing good on that department of the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Koivu can give a good bodycheck. Ribeiro can check, but he's the one that falls down
That's funny about Ribeiro, I seeing the same about Saku. When he tries on Lindros, Shanahan et cie...he's the one falling...

Did you see Kwiatkowski laughing about Saku yesterday ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Koivu always makes crisp passes. Ribeiro often makes turnover passes
That's too bad that the NHL take away those stats on Takeaways and Giveaways...'cause for now you affirmation it's only your impression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Koivu is the captain, is Ribeiro anything more then Theos friend?
Ok...that's more funny...Koivu at 29 of age is better then Ribeiro at 23 because he's the captain of the team and because it's better to be the friend of Rivet ! I don't understand your point on this one ?

BTW, a real and good captain doesn't say that he don't want to play anymore with Hossa, doesn't say that he don't want to play at the point on PP, doesn't say after a solid performance of Garon (last year) that was the best performance of a goalie he ever saw after what Theo did the year before (maybe because Theo stole the place of his buddy Hackett) and finally doesn't cry on the bench because the shift of Ribeiro was 6 seconds longer then Juneau (his partner at that time) on the OT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Koivu is fast, Ribeiro is slow.
Still your impression on that until any chronos between the two. Anyway what's your point...Luc Robitaille is one of the more effective LW on the history of the NHL without skating ability. With your argument, you would prefer Russ Courtnall on Lucky Luc !


Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Koivu is good in all three zones, sure he does mistakes, but Ribeiro is effective in one zone, and he has yet to dominate during a game whereas Koivu has dominated many games already this year.
Ok...Ribeiro is good only a 1 area....which one ??

'Cause I'm seeing Ribeiro stelling pass on his def zone with his sense of anticipation and beeing more and more effective on back-checking. I seeing Ribeiro doing great passes or intelligent plays in the enter of the enemy zone. And I seeing Rib's controling the play at offense zone and making everyone scoring who plays with him !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Koivu is very strong, Ribeiro is weak.
Bégin is very strong. Souray is very strong. Quintal is very strong. Bouillon is very strong. Even Zednik is more "very strong" then Saku.

Saku is as weak as Rib's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Koivu plays with emotion, grit, passion and he's dirty. Ribeiro wants but can't, he doesn't scare a fly either.
For that one...look at the replays of yesterday look at the face of Kwiatkowski

Anyway, I don't want to see Saku or Ribeiro doing that job....but for Kilger it's another story !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
This one is not even close, I like Ribeiro and I hope he'll be a real 80+ points 1st line center, but come on, even if he does, he'll never be as good as Koivu. Koivu at 23 was a heck of a lot better then Ribeiro is at 23.
The problem here it's the coaching staff at 95-96 decided to play rookie Koivu more then 10 minutes per game. So for Saku's first year he had 45 pts on 82 games for a average of 0.55

For Ribeiro's case, it's the first year that he play on regular base and he have 26 pts on 35 games for a average of 0.74

Finally I think that Koivu IS better for NOW but not for long !


Last edited by Leprechaun: 12-26-2003 at 10:11 AM.
 
Old
12-24-2003, 01:20 PM
  #19
Habsaku
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Quote:
That sentence doesn't mean a thing and it's pretty empty. If you mean that Ribs doesn't score when it counts look to those numbers

Its an expression, it means Ribeiro doesn't give a constant effort during 60 mins and theres no way you can argue that unless you close your eyes when watching games.

Quote:
Knowing what king of player you are is bad ? I don't want to see Wayne Gretzky playing like a PF or Cam Neely playing a soft game.

Ribeiro is no Wayne Gretzky, I hate these comparisons. Gretzky is the best player of all time, the only one close is Lemieux. Ribeiro is now becoming a 2nd line center.

Koivu plays bigger then his size while ribeiro plays smaller then his 6'. He is soft like Perreault, Audette, Sundstrom and all the other guys who can't take or give a hit.

Quote:
You're right on that. I think Saku's better now in the scoring department but don't forget the 6 years betting the two.
I don't think those 6 years will do anything. He might become a borderline 20 goal scorer, but I doubt he'll have a more accurate shot then Saku.

Quote:
Koivu play well at 5on5 and PP but he's average at PK and regardless of size, he doesn't afraid many player. Don't get me wrong, I love is heart but when it's time to body checking he's well above-average on that side. Koivu can't play at LW (like Ribs) because of his size and about playing the point he said yesterday that he doesn't like playing the point on PP.

Anyway, it's pretty rare that a young player plays well on the PK and it takes time (experience) for doing good on that department of the game
Our PK has been much much better since Sakus return, its no coincidence. If Koivu can't play wing because of his size theres no way our weakest skinniest player can. Ribs wasn't effective on the wing, he can't battle in corners like Koivu can.
He never said he didn't want to play the point, he said it was different BUT FUN.
Also, I can clearly see you must be a new Habs fan cause Koivu has been playing PK since his days in Finland, I don't even want to imagine Ribs on the PK, cause the only time he was(against Sundin) it was a disgrace.

Quote:
That's funny about Ribeiro, I seeing the same about Saku. When he tries on Lindros, Shanahan et cie...he's the one falling...

Did you see Kwiatkowski laughing about Saku yesterday
Do you remember Satan, do you remember Hal Gill(6'8") in the playoffs 2 years ago? Koivu does not fall down, he hits them with clean and hard checks. BTW how many players can effectively check Lindros or Shanahan? Not many. Kwiatkowski was laughing at what Saku was saying btw.

Quote:
That's too bad that the NHL take away those stats on Takeaways and Giveaways...'cause for now you affirmation it's only your impression
Yeah, that great pass yesterday to Souray that ended up on Bondras stick must've been my imagination. He does that many times, his passes are still too weak.

Quote:
BTW, a real and good captain doesn't say that he don't want to play anymore with Hossa, doesn't say that he don't want to play at the point on PP, doesn't say after a solid performance of Garon (last year) that was the best performance of a goalie he ever saw after what Theo did the year before (maybe because Theo stole the place of his buddy Hackett) and finally doesn't cry on the bench because the shift of Ribeiro was 6 seconds longer then Juneau (his partner at that time) on the OT
Most of the things you just said are pure speculiation fabricated and said by our good friends on 110%, not exactly credible information. <

He didn't say he didn't want to play the point and he said Garon gave ONE OF THE BEST performances of a goalie, not the best and to tell you the truth, he was right.

Quote:
Still your impression on that until any chronos between the two. Anyway what's your point...Luc Robitaille is one of the more effective LW on the history of the NHL without skating ability. With your argument, you would prefer Russ Courtnall on Lucky Luc !
Its not an impression, open your freaking eyes. Luc Robitaille was a puregoal scorer, the best LW of all time, is Mike Ribeiro any close to that? Ribeiro and Koivu are both playmakers, they are both on the small side, but Koivu is strong AND fast, Ribeiro is soft AND slow, that isn't good, thats why he was a 2nd rounder, tahts why he doesn't hold much value around the league and why he hasn't made the team until this year when they practically gave him the spot.

Quote:
Ok...Ribeiro is good only a 1 area....which one ??

'Cause I'm seeing Ribeiro stelling pass on his def zone with his sense of anticipation and beeing more and more effective on back-checking. I seeing Ribeiro doing great passes or intelligent plays in the enter of the enemy zone. And I seeing Rib's controling the play at offense zone and making everyone scoring who plays with him !
One zone: The offensive zone and he doesn't give a 60 min effort either. He's not goode on defense, if you don't see that, it tells me a lot on your hockey knowledge. BTW, did you see how Bulis, Ryder and Zednik all started playing that much better with Koivu? that must be a coincidence right?


Quote:
Bégin is very strong. Souray is very strong. Quintal is very strong. Bouillon is very strong. Even Zednik is more "very strong" then Saku.

Saku is as weak as Rib's
Like I said previously, open your eyes, if you can't see how stronger Koivu is then Ribeiro then I'll start doubting why I even bother responding.

Quote:
For that one...look at the replays of yesterday look at the face of Kwiatkowski
Are you gonna deny that Saku plays dirty, with emotion, grit and passion?

Quote:
The problem here it's the coaching staff at 95-96 decided to play rookie Koivu more then 10 minutes per game. So for Saku's first year he had 45 pts on 82 games for a average of 0.55

For Ribeiro's case, it's the first year that he play on regular base and he have 26 pts on 35 games for a average of 0.74
You do realize that Saku in his first try made the team and played all 82 games in his first season right and btw he was 3rd center not 2nd and not 1st for the first dozen games? Ribeiro has been trying for 5 years and he even got benched this year, so that comparison is ridiculous, he couldn't even make the team until they gave him that spot. On top of that Koivu made a much much much much better team then the ones Ribeiro could've the last 5 years.

Now, I'm somewhat of a Ribeiro defender(I like his talent0, but when it comes to Koivu-Ribeiro comparisons, I find the notion of them being even close ridiculous.

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Old
12-24-2003, 01:22 PM
  #20
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Mike Ribeiro : 7 : Cariboux, CoupeStanley, FSU Seminoles, HABitude, Leprechaun, Lok, Mike8


....Surprising ? :p

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12-24-2003, 01:34 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx th threads about Koivu vs Ribiero of the week ....

and by the way the good question must have been

witch one is the best

Koivu at 5,000,000 /year
Ribeiro at 800 000 /year



, i was only joking ...i really don't want to be a part of this stupid war ; i am happy with the two and don't see why should we have to compare them ...


Last edited by goalchenyuk: 12-24-2003 at 02:02 PM.
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12-24-2003, 05:53 PM
  #22
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Koivu is by far our best player. You have to take in all aspects of the game. They both play the powerplay,but who can play shorthanded? And who would you play at the end of the game when you have a 1 goal lead? Who's the better draw man? Ribeiro will get better but give him time.

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12-24-2003, 07:41 PM
  #23
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The francophonies Lèpre Chaun and HABS-65 can't hide their prejudice, can they. They even tinker with the age and experience differentials. Koivu is 5 years 2 months older than Ribeiro. He didn't sign with the Habs right away but stayed in Finland for some time before coming to Montréal. Ribeiro started here at a younger age. Koivu showed immediately that he was a fine player. Ribeiro was doubtful for a long time. Ribeiro has never had an outstanding season. Even this year, just looking at them, you can tell that Koivu leaves Ribeiro in a trail of ice chips. Ribeiro depends on PP time to get points. Koivu can get points 5 on 5, 4 on 4, PP, and even shorthanded. I'm waiting for Ribeiro to get a shorthanded goal.

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12-24-2003, 09:09 PM
  #24
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My view of this is when Saku turns it on (like last couple of games), he is better than Ribeiro but once Koivu goes back to being Koivu, Ribeiro
surpasses him in offensive threat.

Ribeiro has been consistant all year and considering its his first real full season as a #2 center, he's showing alot of promise and will only get better as time goes by.

Koivu on the other hand is showing less of the magic he once posessed.
Injuries have slowed him down and i rarely see what i saw before his first big injury when he was leading the NHL in points.


Another good question would be if you had to trade one of them, who would it be?

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12-24-2003, 09:21 PM
  #25
ChemiseBleuHonnete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs_24x
My view of this is when Saku turns it on (like last couple of games), he is better than Ribeiro but once Koivu goes back to being Koivu, Ribeiro
surpasses him in offensive threat.

Ribeiro has been consistant all year and considering its his first real full season as a #2 center, he's showing alot of promise and will only get better as time goes by.

Koivu on the other hand is showing less of the magic he once posessed.
Injuries have slowed him down and i rarely see what i saw before his first big injury when he was leading the NHL in points.


Another good question would be if you had to trade one of them, who would it be?
That's a little bit stupid... Don't you think that Koivu has more magic in the recent games because he's fully recovered and also more in shape. So what you see is what you get. Koivu is now back to Koivu.

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