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Talk about big time robbery......Hartnell & Timo sign with Flyers

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Old
06-18-2007, 03:00 PM
  #1
NJ_CATS_FAN
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Talk about big time robbery......Hartnell & Timo sign with Flyers

Wow, this is something. Scratch Hartnell off the wishlist.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=211182&hubname=nhl

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06-18-2007, 03:04 PM
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who's next?

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06-18-2007, 03:11 PM
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GudVibransons
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Gotta give it up to the Flyers. They are making a lot of moves to make sure they're not spending too long in the basement. It's been a while since I've seen such aggressive dealing from any team.

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06-18-2007, 03:18 PM
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Georgia Panther
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If Hartnell is Worth $4.2 Mil, What Is Horton Going to Want?

An expensive Horton extension just got more expensive, perhaps too much so.
And though Hartnell was going to become a UFA and Horton just a RFA, offer sheets aren't as costly in draft picks in the new CBA and Horton is the likely target of at least one.

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06-18-2007, 03:25 PM
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Horton is a RFA
Hartnell is a pending UFA, signing with the 30th place team before free agency. of course its gonna cost more to sign him.

hortons value shouldnt rise yet, wait for UFA

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06-18-2007, 03:33 PM
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Holy smokes, what an aggressive move by the Flyers- Hartnell at 4.2 and Timo at 6.3 mil per year. Wow, Timo was expected to get over 6 mil but Hartnell at 4 is definitely overpaying for potential.

Darn, I knew the Panthers weren't going to get Hartnell! I hope we can get White and Walker at this point, because a few more teams have got to be interested in them now that Hartnell's off the FA list.

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06-18-2007, 03:36 PM
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Still Horton's agent will use Hartnell's numbers from last year (less goals than Horts) to show what his value is today. I know that's what I'd be saying if I were Horton's agent! If the Panthers want to sign Horton to a long-term deal, which the papers have indicated, then they are going to have to pay him more for the years where he would be sacrificing being a FA and going on the open market.

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06-18-2007, 03:46 PM
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it shouldn't have too much of an effect. Horton is still four or five years removed from UFA - which means the Panthers could just 1-up him from here to that time and give him minimal raises. Horton doesn't have that much negotiating power. Any substantial increase for the next 3-5 years will look like gold to him. the UFA market is pretty irrelevant.

If anything will hurt his value, it will be the contract of guys like Hemsky and Bergeron who signed last year. Both have outproduced Horton, however, so i dont think he'll get as much as those guys did ($4+mil per for 4-5 years.)

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06-18-2007, 03:53 PM
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Actually I think the Hartnell deal is a great price. I would of paid him 4.5 and with the cap going up from here on out it's going to look like a good deal down the road. Timo however I don't know if I would pay him 6.3 million. Bouwmeester's contract just went up.

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06-18-2007, 05:23 PM
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I have a feeling that Hortons extention (5 or 6 yr) will be announced at the Draft Party. One because he is the Cat attending the party, and two because it will get the proceedings off to a great start. So I hope my premonitions are right!

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06-18-2007, 05:30 PM
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He could get 6.5m in the open market.

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06-18-2007, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by catfan927 View Post
I have a feeling that Hortons extention (5 or 6 yr) will be announced at the Draft Party. One because he is the Cat attending the party, and two because it will get the proceedings off to a great start. So I hope my premonitions are right!
To sound like a Panthers fan.. I gotta throw this out there. With our luck Horton's trade will be announced at the draft party..

jk.. I hope we announce his long term signing

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06-18-2007, 05:31 PM
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good luck with your premonition... however i feel we are going to be in for a longgg summer.

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06-18-2007, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
An expensive Horton extension just got more expensive, perhaps too much so.
And though Hartnell was going to become a UFA and Horton just a RFA, offer sheets aren't as costly in draft picks in the new CBA and Horton is the likely target of at least one.
Aren't offer sheets MORE costly in the new CBA?? If another team wants to steal Horton from us it's going to cost them 5 first round picks. I don't see that happening.

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06-18-2007, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by FlaPanthers7 View Post
Still Horton's agent will use Hartnell's numbers from last year (less goals than Horts) to show what his value is today. I know that's what I'd be saying if I were Horton's agent! If the Panthers want to sign Horton to a long-term deal, which the papers have indicated, then they are going to have to pay him more for the years where he would be sacrificing being a FA and going on the open market.
I have to agree with you on this one. Horton's agent would be dumb to not use Hartnell's numbers as a comparison. Horton is younger, has out performed and has more potential than Hartnell. For those who say that Horton doesn't have much negotiating power IMO that is bull. With as much potential as Horton has and how saught after he will be, the Panthers would be dumb to offer him 1 year contracts with little in the way of a raise because it will just upset him and he will be looking for offer sheets and movement to another team how will pay him what he is worth now and as soon as he becomes an UFA. You can't just keep going and signing a future star to 1 year deals and minimum raises and expect him to be loyal and happy with you once he becomes an UFA.

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06-18-2007, 10:05 PM
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Wow, this makes my horrible day even worse.

1) I get stuck in the armpit of America, yes, New Jersey. I spent the entire day in the airport because my flight out of here was overbooked so I've got to wake up at 3:45 to catch a flight out of Philly at 6:15.

2) I get a call that my power was turned off because my ******* roomate allowed our utility bill to become delinquent. He also left both our dogs inside the house for 3 days without food or water because he was God knows where. My girlfriend passed by to make sure the house wasn't burned down to find dog **** all over the house and my dog parched and starving.

3) I was also informed that I have a broken and leaking A/C unit to look forward to when I get back to Tallahassee's 95 degree weather.

4) Scott Hartnell was taken from the Panthers. I guarantee he was high on JM's list of UFA's to persue aggressively.

This is such a horrible day.

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06-18-2007, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remax View Post
I have to agree with you on this one. Horton's agent would be dumb to not use Hartnell's numbers as a comparison. Horton is younger, has out performed and has more potential than Hartnell. For those who say that Horton doesn't have much negotiating power IMO that is bull. With as much potential as Horton has and how saught after he will be, the Panthers would be dumb to offer him 1 year contracts with little in the way of a raise because it will just upset him and he will be looking for offer sheets and movement to another team how will pay him what he is worth now and as soon as he becomes an UFA. You can't just keep going and signing a future star to 1 year deals and minimum raises and expect him to be loyal and happy with you once he becomes an UFA.
Though i agree with ur point , i have to take a different view . Just because one team decides to go out and really overpay someone , doesnt in my view give the right to any other player to use that isolated incident to his advantage . If so any player around 50 points can ask their team to pay them similar raises . You dont pay for potential , you pay from results . Horton has a good season but not too much increase in points from last season , he desevers a long term deal that ranges from 3 mill to 4 million per year , goes up in each contract year . So a 5 year deal , 3, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.

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06-18-2007, 10:23 PM
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Though i agree with ur point , i have to take a different view . Just because one team decides to go out and really overpay someone , doesnt in my view give the right to any other player to use that isolated incident to his advantage . If so any player around 50 points can ask their team to pay them similar raises . You dont pay for potential , you pay from results . Horton has a good season but not too much increase in points from last season , he desevers a long term deal that ranges from 3 mill to 4 million per year , goes up in each contract year . So a 5 year deal , 3, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.
The problem with that view is that it is in Horton and every other RFA's best interest to use Hartnell as an example. It's the logical thing to do. One team's overpayment will become the rest of the league's headache. UFA or RFA, Hartnell is gonna set a precedent on how the rest of the players in the league in a similar category. The only way he doesn't become a precedent is if the rest of the league takes a hard line stance against that kind of salary.

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06-18-2007, 10:28 PM
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Aren't offer sheets MORE costly in the new CBA?? If another team wants to steal Horton from us it's going to cost them 5 first round picks. I don't see that happening.

Actually, the new CBA makes it easier for teams to make offer sheets. No more 5 first round draft choices. The maximum compensation is four first rounders and that is only for contracts over $5 mil a year. I believe the compensation for a $4 to $5 mil contract which Horton might receive is 2 firsts, a second and a third.

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06-18-2007, 11:12 PM
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Toronto Sun article excerpt

Following in Toronto Sun article of today on team needs, etc:

FLORIDA PANTHERS

Summer Sizzle: An upgrade in goaltending must be the priority for the underachieving Kitty Cats, a young, talented team that can not rely on Alex Auld or Ed Belfour between the pipes.

The Buzz: By dealing F Chris Gratton to Tampa, Panthers freed up about $1.5 million in cap space to take a run at a free agent goalie ... Are expected to make a pitch for pending UFA J-S Giguere, who could command an annual salary of about $7 million ... Re-signed D Bryan Allen to a five-year, $14.5 million pact ... If they don't lock up young F Nathan Horton, a number of NHL executives expect him to receive one or more offer sheets from opposing teams.

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06-19-2007, 09:36 AM
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martin just this week said he will lock up him and weiss

Not worried of it.


I would of loved Hartnell but oh wells

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06-19-2007, 10:33 AM
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Another issue I see with Horton is that as he progresses, these 1 year deals will continue to increase in salary. If Nate hits 35-40 goals this year, he's going to be asking for more than 2-3 million. If you lock him up for 4 years now and he really breaks out over the next two seasons (ala Vanek), then you've still got him at a fair market value for what he's producing. The risk is that he doesn't improve from his 30 goal mark this year, but I think we can all agree that the odds of Horton's point production increasing is fairly strong.

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06-19-2007, 03:44 PM
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This one year at a time is the best way to ruin the future of the team, that is exactly what happened with Luongo and look how that ended. These guys are our future and the three of them need to be signed long term, to at least five to seven years. That is how you develop a nucleus of players that want to be here, feel appreciated, and feel ownership of the team, not guys playing on one-year contracts, waiting for their big payday. Jacques seems to agree with this philosophy so lets hope he gets them both done soon, and the Jay is next.

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06-19-2007, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers 10 View Post
This one year at a time is the best way to ruin the future of the team, that is exactly what happened with Luongo and look how that ended. These guys are our future and the three of them need to be signed long term, to at least five to seven years. That is how you develop a nucleus of players that want to be here, feel appreciated, and feel ownership of the team, not guys playing on one-year contracts, waiting for their big payday. Jacques seems to agree with this philosophy so lets hope he gets them both done soon, and the Jay is next.
IMO, I think it's best to wait till a player is 1 or 2 years from UFA status and then sign them long term. Signing them long term when they are 3 or 4 years away means you're locking them in for their UFA years for a shorter term.

However, it may make the most sense to sign a guy like Horton now because he is likely to bump his number up significantly next year and demand more money. Locking him up based on current accomplishments would be a steal.

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06-19-2007, 05:20 PM
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Remax
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IMO, I think it's best to wait till a player is 1 or 2 years from UFA status and then sign them long term. Signing them long term when they are 3 or 4 years away means you're locking them in for their UFA years for a shorter term.

However, it may make the most sense to sign a guy like Horton now because he is likely to bump his number up significantly next year and demand more money. Locking him up based on current accomplishments would be a steal.
The problem I see with waiting until they are 1 or 2 years from UFA is that they will say, hey, they haven't shown enough interest in locking me up long term in the past, why don't I just wait out the next year or two until I'm an UFA and then go somewhere where I can get the length and security that I want.

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