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Messier in Vancouver

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Old
06-21-2007, 03:30 PM
  #51
putridgasbag
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Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
I agree with you on one point, Messier played poorly as a Canuck and he did not earn his contract. If Canuck fans want to hate him for that, its totally fair. However as far as the rest of Canuck urban legends, Messier did not take Linden's captaincy, Linden gave it away, so if that upsets you, hate Linden. If the size of Messier's contract upsets you, if the fact he was given number 11 upsets you, if the fact he was involved in player personnel changes and coaching changes upsets you blame John McCaw and the Vancouver Canucks organization. Thats who made those decisions and thats who is responsible.
MEssier was a complete hybrid donkey while he was in Vancouver. He is the biggest mistake the Canucks have ever made and trust me as a long, long time fan of the team there have been more than a few. MEssier was almost single handedly to blame for the mess they turned into. His greasy paw prints were everywhere and it was a complete and total disaster.

What I saw on the ice was a player who was well past his best before date. He was slow and disinterested and definitely only playing top minutes because of his contract. His skills were gone. He was useless for everything except open and closing the gate. Oh and pat guys on the back and sayin' "atta boy, way to go, we'll get them next time"

If there was a way to erase the MEssier era from the data banks and my memory I'd be all for it.

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06-21-2007, 04:45 PM
  #52
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Messier went to the Canucks because the Canucks outbid everyone. Messier wanted to stay in NY, but if I remember correctly, Neil Smith refused to offer Messier such a long term deal at the type of money the Canucks gave Messier.

And there were rumors that Messier held out for a coaching change. For supposedly the greatest leader in hockey, when you're the captain of a divided locker room, that doesn't look too good on you.

But Messier really wasn't a great player with the Canucks. Even when he went back to the Rangers he became a liability defensively. Age caught up to him.

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06-22-2007, 12:45 AM
  #53
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Messier was a locker room cancer, getting too old, and hugely overpaid.

However that doesnt take away he was over those 3 years the teams best player besides Bure and that he taught many good lessons to the young Vancouver players.

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06-24-2007, 12:13 AM
  #54
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Funny that a team that spent so much time bemoaning the financial state of the NHL has one of the most profligate signings of the last CBA.

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06-24-2007, 02:37 AM
  #55
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Funny that a team that spent so much time bemoaning the financial state of the NHL has one of the most profligate signings of the last CBA.
True True!

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06-24-2007, 08:09 PM
  #56
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Funny that a team that spent so much time bemoaning the financial state of the NHL has one of the most profligate signings of the last CBA.
Explain yourself. The Canucks were a high-spending team before Burke arrived and started gutting the works. I think the main complaint that the team had was about the exchange rate - but that had nothing to do with the league.

I don't recall them as one of the teams campaigning for a low cap. I wonder if you're thinking of the Oilers of Edmonton?

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06-25-2007, 02:41 PM
  #57
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Ha right. Burke, the Canadian media, the fans et al were more than happy to lay all the blame on "free spending".

It wasn't unique though. Sather ran around telling everyone if he had the Rangers budget he'd never lose a game.

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06-25-2007, 05:26 PM
  #58
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Ha right. Burke, the Canadian media, the fans et al were more than happy to lay all the blame on "free spending".

It wasn't unique though. Sather ran around telling everyone if he had the Rangers budget he'd never lose a game.
Well, since Burke signed on for GM after the Messier deal you can't really include him in the mix on that. The Canucks were a high spending team prior to Burke's signing, he was brought in to cut the fat - which he did. He may have complained about high spending teams but it still doesn't support your original assertion that it was ironic that the Canucks signed Messier.

My memories of the Canucks complaints in the 90's (the team, not individuals) were of the ridiculous deals that US cities were willing to give teams, including tax breaks, and also the exchange rates.

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06-25-2007, 06:56 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
Read this book, it documents the whole thing including a quote from Linden. http://www.amazon.ca/Messier-Jeff-Z-Klein/dp/0770429084
Uh, its a book about Messier written by a member of the New York media. Honestly I don't know much about Messier's time in Vancouver so I can't say personally if you're right or wrong, but that is about as biased a source as you could get on the thing. It'd be like a Canucks fan trying to support their position with a Trevor Linden biography written by David Pratt.

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06-25-2007, 08:11 PM
  #60
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I hated Pavel Bure but I'd carry him on my shoulders skating around the Paciifc Colliseum if it meant I could kick Messier in the balls.

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06-25-2007, 08:59 PM
  #61
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Uh, its a book about Messier written by a member of the New York media. Honestly I don't know much about Messier's time in Vancouver so I can't say personally if you're right or wrong, but that is about as biased a source as you could get on the thing. It'd be like a Canucks fan trying to support their position with a Trevor Linden biography written by David Pratt.
I've read the book and it seems well researched and fair. Their are tonnes of instances where it very critical of Messier and his actions on and off the ice. What parts of it did you think seemed biased?

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06-26-2007, 03:06 PM
  #62
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I hated Pavel Bure but I'd carry him on my shoulders skating around the Paciifc Colliseum if it meant I could kick Messier in the balls.

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06-26-2007, 03:25 PM
  #63
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I don't see why Vancouver fans are so bitter. In 3 years with the Canucks Messier won as many Cups as the Canucks have won before and since combined.

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06-26-2007, 03:43 PM
  #64
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His on ice performance was well below expectations obviously but he still was half decent as what averaged to be a 60 ish point player. In terms of him being a cancer, that was more evident in year 1 and 2. He has an ego, no doubt about it and we will never know the real situation with him supposedly demanding the captaincy, the #11, and purposely not trying to get Linden traded and bring in Keenan for coach/gm. According to Gino, this was true, but thats still speculation.

In year 3, things started to turn around and his leadership started to kick in. But, as was the case with the Rangers, the team didn't really start succeeding until he left. Perhaps they needed their real key players to step up and take on leadership roles and with Messier's ego and personality that never happened. When Mess was there, it was always his team and the real key players on the team never really stepped up when they should have.


Last edited by Pure West: 06-26-2007 at 05:45 PM.
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06-26-2007, 03:57 PM
  #65
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Wasn't no. 11 already retired for the late Wayne Maki? Was the number unretired for Messier?
Many people miss this little bit of info. Messier, since he wanted his little #11, was willing to disturb a retired number (didn't take no for an answer from Canucks brass) which was retired because the player in question (Maki) died a premature death. When Messier obtained #11 in Vancouver Maki's family immediately made a big stink about, but I do not blame them. He disturbed what was a memorial for someone who died way before he should of.


I seriously question Messier's character. Why not take another number? The guy is full of himself.

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06-26-2007, 03:58 PM
  #66
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(also there was rumour that he sexually abused Pavel, I don't know how much this really got out though and I highly doubt its validity)
What the ****?? Seriously? I never heard that before.

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06-26-2007, 04:28 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Mista Mo27 View Post
Many people miss this little bit of info. Messier, since he wanted his little #11, was willing to disturb a retired number (didn't take no for an answer from Canucks brass) which was retired because the player in question (Maki) died a premature death. When Messier obtained #11 in Vancouver Maki's family immediately made a big stink about, but I do not blame them. He disturbed what was a memorial for someone who died way before he should of.


I seriously question Messier's character. Why not take another number? The guy is full of himself.
The #11 was never offically retired, but no other player wore it after Maki Died, I've said this b4 earlier in the thread, Seeing Maki's widow all over the TV was rough. It wasn't easy to take.Vancover should have retired 11 once Messiers 1st season started & than after Mess left it would have been over. Don't blame Messier, He had no idea about the number issue until Maki's widow said somthing, That is all on the Canucks management.
Lots of bitterness towards one of the greatest players ever.

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06-26-2007, 05:02 PM
  #68
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What the ****?? Seriously? I never heard that before.
similarly.

I mean there's lots of canucks rumours: jeff brown and mclean's wife, bure's mob ties, kevin weeke's wallet... but never this.

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06-26-2007, 05:05 PM
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The #11 was never offically retired, but no other player wore it after Maki Died, I've said this b4 earlier in the thread, Seeing Maki's widow all over the TV was rough. It wasn't easy to take.Vancover should have retired 11 once Messiers 1st season started & than after Mess left it would have been over. Don't blame Messier, He had no idea about the number issue until Maki's widow said somthing, That is all on the Canucks management.
Lots of bitterness towards one of the greatest players ever.
interesting.

did he apologise?

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06-26-2007, 05:15 PM
  #70
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interesting.

did he apologise?

I really don't know, I don't recall seeing Mess doing any press on the subject.

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06-26-2007, 06:26 PM
  #71
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He has an ego, no doubt about it and we will never know the real situation with him supposedly demanding the captaincy, the #11, and purposely not trying to get Linden traded and bring in Keenan for coach/gm. According to Gino, this was true, but thats still speculation.
Trevor Linden is quoted in an interview with Gary Mason of the Vancouver Sun saying, "It was just something I had to do. If I remained the captain, bringing in a player with his history and leadership qualities, if things did go wrong I was going to be second-guessed the whole time. So my only option was to say to, 'Mark, listen, I think this is the way it should be,' and Mark accepted it, so we moved on.". Thats a quote from Trevor Linden in an interview with a Vancouver reporter from Jeff Z. Klein's Messier biography. Klein is a lifelong Sabre fan and has written a number of hockey books including a biography on Mario Lemieux.

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06-26-2007, 06:34 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Mista Mo27 View Post
Many people miss this little bit of info. Messier, since he wanted his little #11, was willing to disturb a retired number (didn't take no for an answer from Canucks brass) which was retired because the player in question (Maki) died a premature death. When Messier obtained #11 in Vancouver Maki's family immediately made a big stink about, but I do not blame them. He disturbed what was a memorial for someone who died way before he should of.


I seriously question Messier's character. Why not take another number? The guy is full of himself.
When Messier was signed it was in his contract that he would wear #11. When Wayne Maki's family saw Messier was given #11 they were really hurt and upset, Maki's widow says she called Pat Quinn and when he called her back he told her she should be honored that Messier had the number now, she told him she wasn't. Messier said he was embarrassed by the situation but had been told by Quinn that the situation was being taken care of.

I agree with Canuck fan's on this one, Messier should of taken another number, but the greater blame definitely falls on the Canucks for giving the number to Messier and not doing right by the former player.

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06-26-2007, 07:08 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
The moment Messier was signed Trevor Linden started sulking, he was no longer the man and he didn't like it. Immediately the media started pestering him about what he would do with the captaincy, he consulted a bunch of people including Messier and was told by all to do what he thought was best. Prior to the season Linden displayed his courage giving up the captaincy, he said the reason he did it was if the Canucks didn't win he would be blamed. So Linden remained in the locker room sulking, dividing the room until Mike Keenan traded him for Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe, and a pick that became Jarkko Ruutu.
What a joke. I don't care about quotes from some unofficial book from someone removed from the situation, everyone in this city with any sort of connection to the team, everyone in the media and everyone in radio knows for a fact that Messier tore the dressing room apart and divided his teammates and brought a cancerous atmosphere to the team. He's a great player for his accomplishments in the past and that deserves respect, but his three years here were embarrassing in terms of the (zero) effort he put in each night, constantly made excuses, and tried to manage the team himself. I don't really see the point of so passionately defending him for that as everyone knows it is true.

Linden never, through all the ******** Messier put him through, sulked.

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06-26-2007, 07:49 PM
  #74
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What a joke. I don't care about quotes from some unofficial book from someone removed from the situation, everyone in this city with any sort of connection to the team, everyone in the media and everyone in radio knows for a fact that Messier tore the dressing room apart and divided his teammates and brought a cancerous atmosphere to the team. He's a great player for his accomplishments in the past and that deserves respect, but his three years here were embarrassing in terms of the (zero) effort he put in each night, constantly made excuses, and tried to manage the team himself. I don't really see the point of so passionately defending him for that as everyone knows it is true.

Linden never, through all the ******** Messier put him through, sulked.
Messier didn't do anything to Trevor Linden, that was Mike Keenan. Some Vancouver fans can't handle the possibility that not EVERYTHING negative during those 3 seasons was Messier's doing. Their are plenty of valid criticisms such as his on ice production as you pointed out, I agree with you, I don't buy the injury excuses or anything else, he didn't deliver. I don't see the point of burying your head in the sand and not being willing to consider information you haven't heard when making your opinion.

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06-26-2007, 09:34 PM
  #75
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What a joke. I don't care about quotes from some unofficial book from someone removed from the situation, everyone in this city with any sort of connection to the team, everyone in the media and everyone in radio knows for a fact that Messier tore the dressing room apart and divided his teammates and brought a cancerous atmosphere to the team. He's a great player for his accomplishments in the past and that deserves respect, but his three years here were embarrassing in terms of the (zero) effort he put in each night, constantly made excuses, and tried to manage the team himself. I don't really see the point of so passionately defending him for that as everyone knows it is true.

Linden never, through all the ******** Messier put him through, sulked.


Messier didn't so anything to Lindedn, Linden's comments about turning over the Captaincy where well documented and made public when it happened. The simple fact was the Team just wasn't that good before Messier Got there, Bure Wanted out & was saying how he wanted to go to a city that was not a "Fish Bowl" Messier Convinced him to stay.
The whole situation was a disaster from the GM down to the coaching Staff. You should be thanking Messier to help shape that Franchise for the future success they are having now, His Finger prints are all over them.

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