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Eric is looking VERY solid my fellow Ranger brethern!

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12-30-2003, 11:24 AM
  #1
Maximus
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Eric is looking VERY solid my fellow Ranger brethern!

I know from perusing this fantastic website over the past year or so(only recently decided to join the frey and start posting), Lindros just might be the most hated of all the Rangers for whatever reason(jealousy,dissapointment,missunderstood....y ada yada yada). But the bottom line IMO, is when he's healthy and playing his physical type game, he's still one of the Top 20 or so players in the game(albeit last year was an abysmal season).

I dunno, if any of y'all have noticed but from my viewpoint, I'm starting to see alot more of the Lindros from two years ago that we thought we would be getting when the Flyers dealt him to us. It seems that it takes him around 8-10 games or so every time he gets hurt, for him to start to get his game in gear. And with all the line shuffling Slats has done and even though I still believe Lindros should ultimatly take Holiks place between Kovalev and Rucinsky, he's doing damn good playing with Simon and Barnaby.

I dunno, I guess, I just wanted to send out a few kudos Llindros' way seeing that usually there is always all this negativity when discussing him.....

Any thoughts?

-Maxie

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12-30-2003, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus915
I dunno, I guess, I just wanted to send out a few kudos Llindros' way seeing that usually there is always all this negativity when discussing him.....

Any thoughts?
Yeah, trade him while he has value and is healthy. With his current play he might actually bring something reasonably close to Jan Hlavac (coming off a 28 goal season), Kim Johnsson, a highly regarded prospect, and a 3rd round pick.


But probably he would not.

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12-30-2003, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
Yeah, trade him while he has value and is healthy. With his current play he might actually bring something reasonably close to Jan Hlavac (coming off a 28 goal season), Kim Johnsson, a highly regarded prospect, and a 3rd round pick.


But probably he would not.
Count me in the minority than Dedalus, as I hope the Rangers keep him as, other than Kovalev, he's the most talented player we've got. Yeah, he's got the injury issues and Sather for some reason can't stand him, but he's been nothing but a solid citizen and for the most part, when he plays, been quite productive.

So, yeah, lets trade the guy and watch Lindros, like pretty much all the other Rangers who have been dealt before, play "lights out" hockey somewhere else......I think not!. But your entitled to your opinion. I say keep the guy, let him play on the top line with two other skilled guys and watch him, so long as he stays healthy obviously, get back to his point per game pace.

-Maxie

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12-30-2003, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus915
usually there is always all this negativity when discussing him....
you will get that alot around here from most posters.

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12-30-2003, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus915
Count me in the minority than Dedalus, as I hope the Rangers keep him as, other than Kovalev, he's the most talented player we've got. Yeah, he's got the injury issues and Sather for some reason can't stand him, but he's been nothing but a solid citizen and for the most part, when he plays, been quite productive.

So, yeah, lets trade the guy and watch Lindros, like pretty much all the other Rangers who have been dealt before, play "lights out" hockey somewhere else......I think not!. But your entitled to your opinion. I say keep the guy, let him play on the top line with two other skilled guys and watch him, so long as he stays healthy obviously, get back to his point per game pace.

-Maxie
No argument that he's playing well, but he's gone through streaks like this before.

Do you keep a guy like this around? I suppose if he's willing to take a substantial paycut in base salary and this time have no bonuses attached, then yes. Otherwise, jettison him.

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12-30-2003, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnaby63
you will get that alot around here from most posters.

Yeah, I've noticed that but IMO, its unwarrented with regards to Lindros......that's all. All he's done this year is basically done EVERYTHING Sather has asked him to do(most of which wouldn't be fully accepted by a rookie as it was totally disrespectful of a guy of his stature) yet he accepted it like a man.

All he's done is basically score at close to a point per game pace this year and IMO, he's getting better and better as he's seemingly getthing his confidence back and has even had some stability in his linemates the past week or so(blasphemous....I know...Lindros actually playing with two guys more than a game at a time...hehe).

Bottom line is the dude has done everything the Rangers have asked of him accept for one important thing.....staying healthy and yet, he's dissed all the time by both management and the fans. I dunno, its a bit vexing to me.......that's all.

-Maxie

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12-30-2003, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican
No argument that he's playing well, but he's gone through streaks like this before.

Do you keep a guy like this around? I suppose if he's willing to take a substantial paycut in base salary and this time have no bonuses attached, then yes. Otherwise, jettison him.
His streaks are streaks that elite players like him have......what can you do....eh? Wouldn't mind if Kovalev got himself on a streak or two.....ya think that would help things?. Wouldn't mind if Nedved got himself a streak going.....eh?. He's an elite player and he should be treated like one.

"Jettison him out" you say.....eh AV?. Well that's the catch. As any Ranger fan knows, that would be just the cure for Lindros as no question in my mind, no matter where he was "jettisoned" out to(even Columbus), he'd be a pt per game player or better. But that's just something, we Ranger fans always know is the danger. I say keep the dude.....

-Maxie

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12-30-2003, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus915
I know from perusing this fantastic website over the past year or so(only recently decided to join the frey and start posting), Lindros just might be the most hated of all the Rangers for whatever reason(jealousy,dissapointment,missunderstood....y ada yada yada). But the bottom line IMO, is when he's healthy and playing his physical type game, he's still one of the Top 20 or so players in the game(albeit last year was an abysmal season).

I dunno, if any of y'all have noticed but from my viewpoint, I'm starting to see alot more of the Lindros from two years ago that we thought we would be getting when the Flyers dealt him to us. It seems that it takes him around 8-10 games or so every time he gets hurt, for him to start to get his game in gear. And with all the line shuffling Slats has done and even though I still believe Lindros should ultimatly take Holiks place between Kovalev and Rucinsky, he's doing damn good playing with Simon and Barnaby.

I dunno, I guess, I just wanted to send out a few kudos Llindros' way seeing that usually there is always all this negativity when discussing him.....

Any thoughts?

-Maxie

I love ERIC
once he gets going, he's awesome! i hope he keeps playing like this and getting better as the season goes on... we need him to play like this if we have any chance at the playoffs

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12-30-2003, 08:24 PM
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The guy is the closest thing we have to a point per game player so don't knock him too much people. The biggest rumor on him was that he complianed often and that he was not a team player; well so far this year he has done what he's told and has quietly had a solid year. Oh and BTW....don't give me this garbage that he's not driving the net cause he is - if you don't see it then maybe your not watching the same game. I know we expect 40 goals, 100 points and 5 hits a night from this guy; but god forbid.....give credit where credit is due.

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12-30-2003, 08:35 PM
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I say keep him unless a great offer comes up. If Toronto calls and offers Carlo or something then I'm all for it, but dont move him just to move him. Don't trade him for another overpaid player that a teams looking to dump. I dont want someone else's problem.

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12-30-2003, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Av-merican
No argument that he's playing well, but he's gone through streaks like this before.

Do you keep a guy like this around? I suppose if he's willing to take a substantial paycut in base salary and this time have no bonuses attached, then yes. Otherwise, jettison him.
Never understand why anyone of us care how much the Garden pays its players ... who cares? No hockey player is worth anywhere what he makes!! He plays hockey for a living!! He's not saving lives, he's not building something! Not defending our country! He's playing hockey ...

If Lindros needs $6MM to stay and ownership doesn't care (unless there is a hardcap) why is it any skin off our teeth? and don't tell me ticket prices ... ticket prices will always be astronomical at the garden because they can be, not because of the payroll ...

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12-31-2003, 04:22 AM
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Another nice, solid game by Lindros last night during last nights OT win vs Kings as he notched himself another assist. Seems as if Lindros gets himself at least a point or two every game......doesn't it?

Well, anyways, nice to read there still are a few Ranger heads other than myself, who want to keep Eric and realize he's just about our best player and thus no need to deal him.

Tell ya, despite how well the Simon,Barnaby and Lindros line has played recently, one can only imagine how many more points and goals the Rangers would have if even 1/2 of Lindros's awesome setups were converted as no one has ever confused Simon or Barnaby of having any type of "sniping" ability....ya think?........hehe


Well, hopefully the nice run we are on continues tomorrow night vs St.Looie. Coming off a 7-2 thrashing vs the Flyers, they'll likely be quite ornery but way Rangers are playing lately, that might not matter....we shalt see.....Happy New Years folks and good to be around Ranger goombas finally!.
-Maxie

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12-31-2003, 04:27 AM
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He's on a nice roll (16 points in the last 16 games) and he is playing well but I would like to see him start scoring some goals. 3 of the last four goals this team has scored have been by defensemen (Poti, deVries, Poti). This team needs its forwards to start scoring goals.

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12-31-2003, 04:38 AM
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hello gents ...... i,ve been readingthis board for a while now and have decided to join the frey. After all how can i not when we are disscusing one of my favorite whipping boys....Erica.

While good points are made inregard tohis 16 points in 16 games, the bottom line is for him to be thought of as doing his job he has to put up more then a point a game or he might as well be Walt Padubney (spelling?) When he was on top of his game that physical play was producing goals not secondary assists. While i do admit that he is more physical then in the past 2 years he must produce more rubber in the nets for me to consider him worth keeping at the end of the year when his contract is up.

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12-31-2003, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
He's on a nice roll (16 points in the last 16 games) and he is playing well but I would like to see him start scoring some goals. 3 of the last four goals this team has scored have been by defensemen (Poti, deVries, Poti). This team needs its forwards to start scoring goals.
I hear ya Broadway, I'd like to see him score some more goals as well. I'd also like to see Kovalev score a few himself. Lindros at least has an excuse.....he plays with Barnaby and Simon(besides both of them not being noted for being snipers, neither have the two of them been noted for being playmakers either) and so its somewhat difficult to imagine him scoring a ton of goals unless its on PP.

Kovie, though has NO excuse. He plays on the top line with Holik and Rucinsky. Yeah, he has a nice assist total and is on track for close to 50 of them. But, its almost laughable that he has only 5 goals at this point in the year.....really it is!. You/I would think that Kovalev would have had 15-20 goals by now and yet he has 5 on his way to a whopping 10-12 by years end at this pace!!.....Something is very wrong with that....very.

But yes, I'd like Eric to score some more goals as well. And quite frankly, unless he's put with better skilled players, I'm not sure he's going to even get a sniff of 20 even if he stays healthy. There's only so much one can do when playing with hard working for sure, but not very skilled linemates like Barnaby and Simon. I guess we'll see soon enough if the trends will continue.

-Maxie

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12-31-2003, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus915
I hear ya Broadway, I'd like to see him score some more goals as well. I'd also like to see Kovalev score a few himself. Lindros at least has an excuse.....he plays with Barnaby and Simon(besides both of them not being noted for being snipers, neither have the two of them been noted for being playmakers either) and so its somewhat difficult to imagine him scoring a ton of goals unless its on PP.

Kovie, though has NO excuse. He plays on the top line with Holik and Rucinsky. Yeah, he has a nice assist total and is on track for close to 50 of them. But, its almost laughable that he has only 5 goals at this point in the year.....really it is!. You/I would think that Kovalev would have had 15-20 goals by now and yet he has 5 on his way to a whopping 10-12 by years end at this pace!!.....Something is very wrong with that....very.

But yes, I'd like Eric to score some more goals as well. And quite frankly, unless he's put with better skilled players, I'm not sure he's going to even get a sniff of 20 even if he stays healthy. There's only so much one can do when playing with hard working for sure, but not very skilled linemates like Barnaby and Simon. I guess we'll see soon enough if the trends will continue.

-Maxie

I don't disagree.

I just can't believe that it is January and this team is being led by Mark Messier in goal scoring. I also can't believe that with Lindros, Kovalev, Nedved, Rucinsky, Carter, and Hlavac this team needs a goal scorer.

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12-31-2003, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHeart
hello gents ...... i,ve been readingthis board for a while now and have decided to join the frey. After all how can i not when we are disscusing one of my favorite whipping boys....Erica.

While good points are made inregard tohis 16 points in 16 games, the bottom line is for him to be thought of as doing his job he has to put up more then a point a game or he might as well be Walt Padubney (spelling?) When he was on top of his game that physical play was producing goals not secondary assists. While i do admit that he is more physical then in the past 2 years he must produce more rubber in the nets for me to consider him worth keeping at the end of the year when his contract is up.
That's not completely fair.

To say that Eric needs to average over a point a game is holding him to an extremely high standard. And while he is not at the top of his game (and probably hasn't been for four or five seasons now), he is doing more than racking up secondary assists. He is making plays and setting up teammates (the pass to Rucinsky against the Bruins, the pass to Simon last night-although he probably should have shot it).

He does need to score more goals but I think that that is as much a product of his linemates as it is his own doing.

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12-31-2003, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHeart
hello gents ...... i,ve been readingthis board for a while now and have decided to join the frey. After all how can i not when we are disscusing one of my favorite whipping boys....Erica.

While good points are made inregard tohis 16 points in 16 games, the bottom line is for him to be thought of as doing his job he has to put up more then a point a game or he might as well be Walt Padubney (spelling?) When he was on top of his game that physical play was producing goals not secondary assists. While i do admit that he is more physical then in the past 2 years he must produce more rubber in the nets for me to consider him worth keeping at the end of the year when his contract is up.
First off, this is the Rangers we are talking about. Who on this team ever scores at a point per game pace....eh? Last one I can recall was Lindros two years ago when he centered the FLY line along with Theo and York. Point per game players on the Rangers are extremely rare. All you have to do is look at Kovalev who was WAY WAY above a point per game while with Pens after never even approaching that during his first tenor with Rangers. Well, he comes back and he's right back to his old ways albeit a bit better on a point per game basis but not much.

Bottom line, for you or anyone to expect Lindros to be better than a point per game player with the linemates he plays with is being very unrealistic. That being said, I'll take the pace he's on now with a few more goals rather than assists thank you very much!.

Now if Eric did end up playing with Kovalev and say Rucinsky, than I think we might be talking a different tune. But he plays with Barnaby and Simon.......enough said.

-Maxie

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12-31-2003, 06:14 AM
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i am not realisticly expecting him to score more then a point a game but lets also look at the fact that messier at 43 has one fewer point in and 8 more goals then lindros playing with the same wingers. Now it is true thathe has played 10 more games then lindros but as any one who has seen mess play this year knows his skills have diminished, had he been 10 years younger he probably would have 5 or six more goals then he has now. Point being While yes Eric is playing better and being more physical the claims of his return to form are greatly exagerated, and while i dont expect more then a point a game i do expext him to out perform a 43 years old on the down side of his carier.

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12-31-2003, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddheyman
Never understand why anyone of us care how much the Garden pays its players ... who cares? No hockey player is worth anywhere what he makes!! He plays hockey for a living!! He's not saving lives, he's not building something! Not defending our country! He's playing hockey ...

If Lindros needs $6MM to stay and ownership doesn't care (unless there is a hardcap) why is it any skin off our teeth? and don't tell me ticket prices ... ticket prices will always be astronomical at the garden because they can be, not because of the payroll ...
Well, the pay wasn't really what I was focusing on, it was mainly focused toward pinning the proper value on what Lindros now brings to the table. I agree it's a little silly to be asking Eric to be the player he was in the 1990s. He's older, wiser, and way too banged up to be that player anymore. One good thing coming out of all that punishment he took both on and off the ice over the years is humility. He appears to have changed from the selfish punk who wouldn't report to Quebec all those years ago. His game appears to have changed as well--unlike last year, when he wandered around the ice with little purpose or passion, he seems to have found his niche. I disagree that he's top line material anymore, Maxie. He's been working well with Barnaby and Simon, why would you break that up? Anytime he's been put on a top line he's been awful. To me that signifies that he's best suited as more of a role-player at this stage in his career, and should be paid accordingly. If he wants to stay, that's fine by me, but he should be a character guy about it and accept a decrease in pay, that's all I'm saying.

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12-31-2003, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican
Well, the pay wasn't really what I was focusing on, it was mainly focused toward pinning the proper value on what Lindros now brings to the table. I agree it's a little silly to be asking Eric to be the player he was in the 1990s. He's older, wiser, and way too banged up to be that player anymore. One good thing coming out of all that punishment he took both on and off the ice over the years is humility. He appears to have changed from the selfish punk who wouldn't report to Quebec all those years ago. His game appears to have changed as well--unlike last year, when he wandered around the ice with little purpose or passion, he seems to have found his niche. I disagree that he's top line material anymore, Maxie. He's been working well with Barnaby and Simon, why would you break that up? Anytime he's been put on a top line he's been awful. To me that signifies that he's best suited as more of a role-player at this stage in his career, and should be paid accordingly. If he wants to stay, that's fine by me, but he should be a character guy about it and accept a decrease in pay, that's all I'm saying.
Well Avguy, you and I will need to disagree as I do believe Lindros is still a #1 line type of player. He's only 30 years old and though he has been beat up, his skill level is still pretty damn close to being on the level of a Kovalev and way above a Rucinsky's. He'd be a great fit on a line with those two. Holik, IMO, is much better suited to being on a checking type of line where he's not required to score and so his being on a line with Barnaby and Simon seems like a perfect match to me and that line wouldn't miss a beat.

So, I'm not quite sure where your thinking Lindros isn't a #1 type on THIS particular team(maybe on Detroit or Colorodo I could buy that reasoning) but on this Ranger team, Lindros is clearly a #1 type of guy and he'd be much better suited to play alongside Kovalev in particularly and whatever skilled player Sather decided to put there as well.

-Maxie

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12-31-2003, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus915
Well Avguy, you and I will need to disagree as I do believe Lindros is still a #1 line type of player. He's only 30 years old and though he has been beat up, his skill level is still pretty damn close to being on the level of a Kovalev and way above a Rucinsky's. He'd be a great fit on a line with those two. Holik, IMO, is much better suited to being on a checking type of line where he's not required to score and so his being on a line with Barnaby and Simon seems like a perfect match to me and that line wouldn't miss a beat.

So, I'm not quite sure where your thinking Lindros isn't a #1 type on THIS particular team(maybe on Detroit or Colorodo I could buy that reasoning) but on this Ranger team, Lindros is clearly a #1 type of guy and he'd be much better suited to play alongside Kovalev in particularly and whatever skilled player Sather decided to put there as well.

-Maxie
I agree. Lindros had a game and a half with Kovalev and Rucinsky, and he played well until Sather decided to put Holik back there. The line of Rucinsky-Holik-Kovalev hasn't done anything in weeks, and Sather absolutely refuses to break it up. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's completely assinine to have our best offensive center playing with our best checking wingers while our best checking center is playing with our best offensive wingers.

Now that Lindros has gotten going again, he needs to be put in a real situation to suceed, and that means offensive linemates instead of trying to plug him into a checking role. Then we can see just what Lindros can still offer to a team.

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12-31-2003, 10:34 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Kodiak
I agree. Lindros had a game and a half with Kovalev and Rucinsky, and he played well until Sather decided to put Holik back there. The line of Rucinsky-Holik-Kovalev hasn't done anything in weeks, and Sather absolutely refuses to break it up. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's completely assinine to have our best offensive center playing with our best checking wingers while our best checking center is playing with our best offensive wingers.

Now that Lindros has gotten going again, he needs to be put in a real situation to suceed, and that means offensive linemates instead of trying to plug him into a checking role. Then we can see just what Lindros can still offer to a team.
Well Kodiak, from your mouth/my mouth to Sathers ears. And hopefully sooner rather than later cause who the heck knows how long Eric is going to stay healthy. Hopefully we didn't jinx him but right now would be THE perfect time to reunite Lindros with Kovalev at the very least and play them together and put Holik back where he belongs alongside Simon and Barnaby.

I dunno, it seems to darn obvious for this to happen and so long as the Rangers keep winning hockey games, I guess we'll have to deal with the same ole/same ole for awhile longer....don't ya think?

-Maxie

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12-31-2003, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHeart
i am not realisticly expecting him to score more then a point a game but lets also look at the fact that messier at 43 has one fewer point in and 8 more goals then lindros playing with the same wingers. Now it is true thathe has played 10 more games then lindros but as any one who has seen mess play this year knows his skills have diminished, had he been 10 years younger he probably would have 5 or six more goals then he has now. Point being While yes Eric is playing better and being more physical the claims of his return to form are greatly exagerated, and while i dont expect more then a point a game i do expext him to out perform a 43 years old on the down side of his carier.
NoHeart, here you are on this post saying your not realistically expecting Lindros to score more than a pt per game yet on your last post you stated the opposite:

"While good points are made inregard tohis 16 points in 16 games, the bottom line is for him to be thought of as doing his job he has to put up more then a point a game or he might as well be Walt Padubney (spelling?)"

So which is it my man.....eh? I'm a bit vexed as to which way your going here as indicated by your contridictory posts.....

And as far as the Messier/Lindros comparison is concerned, its complety unfounded: Messier has played with far better skilled players than Lindros has. I know for a fact(I've seen or been to every Ranger game this season) Messier has played with Kovalev a heck of alot more than Lindros has which is a nice little perk. Messier has benefited from quite a few furtuitious bounces of the puck compared to Lindros thus far and he's an all-time great. All-time greats sometimes have these "out of the blue" great years at the strangest times(StevieY is having one of them as well).

Also, Slats is the biggest Messier fan alive and is very loyal to him almost to the detriment of the team on the whole as there is no way on gods green earth, Messier should be getting #1 center type of ice-time while Lindros gets 3rd line type ice-time at this point in time. Oh yeah, forgot to mention that if he's a "good boy", Sather will give Eric 2nd line type icetime....boy what a sweetie that Sather is....huh?

Its absurd, I know, but that's the way Sather is doing things. So, you couple all that, add in the fact Messier has stayed remarkably healthy for a guy 43 years old along with the fact Lindros has played 10 less games due to a few injuries which has caused him to have to jumpstart his season on a few occassions, thus the closeness in #'s. I will admit, the goal scoring totals of the two mystify me a bit but once Lindros plays with Kovalev which eventually will happen, his goal totals will go up as will his assists.

I realize Noheart that your one of the thousands of Lindros haters(for what reason I haven't the foggiest idea) out there, but lets not compare Lindros and Messier....its a ridiculous comparison to make as Lindros is clearly the superior player at this point in time, at both their respective stages of their careers.

-Maxie


Last edited by Maximus: 12-31-2003 at 11:11 AM.
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01-02-2004, 04:40 AM
  #25
Maximus
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Anyone who saw the Rangers/Blues game last night realizes that Lindros probably looked as close to the "old Lindros"(circa 1998) than he ever has since he became a Ranger as, besides the goal he scored, he dominated down low,played as physical a game as I have seen from him in awhile and looked as if he had no fear at all about being hit.

Hopefully he stays healthy but last night he took his game up a notch to another level which bodes very well going forward for both him and the Rangers. Keep it going Eric and please keep your head up as oppenents will certainly be gunning for you especially now that your game is back to where it should be.

-Maxie

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