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Buffalo/Islanders proposal

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Old
06-23-2007, 07:19 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Seph View Post
In Buffalo he is fortunate to be on a team that is rife with scorers, and has some true go to guys in terms of offense. This lessens the pressure on him, both in a mental sense (can just focus on what he does without having to lead the offense) as well as a physical sense (does not face the same class of checking assignments).
this is my point exactly, Mariusz was a very good offensive player at times on the Isle...usually when he was a second tier option... but when he was the focal Point of an offense he became Mr Invisible.... I dont see Max as ever being more than a complimentary player at best. And Trent, while he is also just a complimentary player (he's not a Star by any means) he brings more to the table and is more of what a championship squad needs, than Max will ever be, IMO. Why trade a Guy like Trent when we just traded for Ryan Smyth and gave up on a Robert Nilsson, only to send the opposite message by trading Trent for Max... That would be Ridiculous.

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06-23-2007, 07:23 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I agree with what you say here. I do not think Afinogenov is a leech, and I do think he is extremely talented. However -- I do not think he'd be as good for the Islanders as he is for the Sabres, which is why I'm not particularly interested in him. In Buffalo he if fortunate to be on a team that is rife with scorers, and has some true go to guys in terms of offense. This lessens the pressure on him, both in a mental sense (can just focus on what he does without having to lead the offense) as well as a physical sense (does not face the same class of checking assignments). I could be wrong on this one, but I simply don't see him as a true go to guy in terms of offense. He's not going to carry an offense on his back, he's not going to be a leader up front. Unfortunately, and especially if the Isles fail to sign Smyth, that's precisely what he'd be expected to do.
All valid points, no problem with that.
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The funny thing is that in an earlier post you say that if the Isles fail to sign Smyth/Blake we'd have more inclination to move Hunter for Max, and though I think you have a point with Blake, I think it's the exact opposite with Smyth. If we sign Smyth, then I think Max would be a guy we could afford to take on (not salarywise, but in a purely on the ice sense). Having Smyth here would also make the loss of Hunter more affordable as well (again, in an on the ice sense). And I think Max would be a great linemate for Smyth, I could really see them having some chemistry. Smyth would help draw attention away from Max, can handle the pressures of being a leader, and is perfectly comfortable being the go to guy offensively -- and that would allow Max to do what he does best. But if Smyth walks, then I think we can ill afford to move any more leadership, grit, heart and 2way game for a high flying but 1dimensional offensive talent. Even if said talent is more of an offensive gamebreaker.
Agreed, to a point. Any team that loses quality players this summer will be hard pressed to replace them from the (very limited) UFA pool.
My line of thinking was, if the Isles can't make a move for a real #1 forward (like Smyth), Afinogenov would make sense combined with maybe another player (1a-1b lines). Before his injury this season, he was arguably Buffalo's MVP, and at 3m is great bang for the buck.
That said, you're right about him probably taking advantage from having Briere on his team and would benefit from having Smyth there, but then again, so would about 90% of other forwards in the league, not many draw away teams' attention from Briere or Smyth.

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And it's a minor point, but a point nonetheless, Hunter scored only 2 fewer goals than Max in the playoffs this year, despite playing 10 fewer games. Hunter also has 4 goals in 14 playoff games over his career, to Max's 10 goal in 49 games. Or even if you only look at Max since breaking out, he still only has 8 in 33 games, which is still a worse pace than Hunter's.
I think Max's playoff woes in the last couple of season are being overemphasized. He was injured this season and was playing decent, if not great hockey, last season. Much like Briere this season, he seemed to have been snakebitten last postseason, and finished 3rd on the team in goals this postseason... Which, considering he was playing with one hand for about 8-9 games, wasn't bad at all.
The bad rep came from the benching, which was deserved I guess, but some other guys who have been playing significant roles on this team could've been scratched at that point too (Pominville, Roy).
That's not to say Hunter doesn't step up in the playoffs, again, I'd take him on the Sabres any day of the week, but I honestly don't have a problem with Max's playoff performances.

I completely understand Isles fans saying they wouldn't give up Hunter for Max, as I'm sure you understand us saying we wouldn't give up Max for HUnter.
My only problem is people who belittle one player to pimp the other guy's (imaginary) value up.
Both are very good players in their own right, and I'm happy with Afinogenov on my team. I'd be even happier with Afinogenov AND Hunter.

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06-23-2007, 07:30 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
this is my point exactly, Mariusz was a very good offensive player at times on the Isle...usually when he was a second tier option... but when he was the focal Point of an offense he became Mr Invisible.... I dont see Max as ever being more than a complimentary player at best. And Trent, while he is also just a complimentary player (he's not a Star by any means) he brings more to the table and is more of what a championship squad needs, than Max will ever be, IMO. Why trade a Guy like Trent when we just traded for Ryan Smyth and gave up on a Robert Nilsson, only to send the opposite message by trading Trent for Max... That would be Ridiculous.
Actually, I disagree with you quite a bit about Chow. In fact, he was rather the opposite. The guy needed to be the focal point of an offense to be effective. He was only useful when the puck was on his stick, so in the offensive zone he was at his most invisible when his linemates had the puck. This made him a poor fit with other guys who liked to handle the puck offensively, but a good fit with a guy like Dave Scatchard who just crashed the net and tried to knock in whatever showed up there. He also needed prime scoring minutes on the PP to get his points, but if a team had better wingers he wouldn't get that. That's why his two best offensive years were when the Isles were the worst team in the league and he was centered by guys like Scatchard and Lapointe. When the Isles got better as a team, he got worse, and why he was completely non-existant in Montreal and Toronto.

The thing that made Chow completely useless (other than of course, his softness, complete unfamiliarity with the defensive zone and inability to do anything useful when the puck was not on his stick) is that he needs to be the top scorer on a team to be any good as a scorer, but if he's your top scorer you're not going anywhere. A sort of Catch-22. If Chow was anywhere near as good of a complementary player as Max, he'd still have a job.

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Old
06-23-2007, 07:46 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
All valid points, no problem with that.
Yay, it's fun to agree


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Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Agreed, to a point. Any team that loses quality players this summer will be hard pressed to replace them from the (very limited) UFA pool.
My line of thinking was, if the Isles can't make a move for a real #1 forward (like Smyth), Afinogenov would make sense combined with maybe another player (1a-1b lines). Before his injury this season, he was arguably Buffalo's MVP, and at 3m is great bang for the buck.
That said, you're right about him probably taking advantage from having Briere on his team and would benefit from having Smyth there, but then again, so would about 90% of other forwards in the league, not many draw away teams' attention from Briere or Smyth.
True, and I can see your reasoning on the 1a 1b line type of idea. Except the in the event that Smyth and Blake walk, the Isles are going be lucky enough to ice two 2nd lines, much less two first lines, and that's with or without Max. In which case, I think we're going to need to focus on defensive play from top to bottom and team work, scoring by committee. Hunter fits that mold better.

Plus, since there's a decent chance we'll suck either way, Hunter's the more likely guy to sign with us for reasonable price for a long time. He's played his entire professional career within the Isles' system, seems very happy here and even after being a runner up for the Calder was very easy to negotiate with and sign.

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Originally Posted by Corto View Post
I think Max's playoff woes in the last couple of season are being overemphasized. He was injured this season and was playing decent, if not great hockey, last season. Much like Briere this season, he seemed to have been snakebitten last postseason, and finished 3rd on the team in goals this postseason... Which, considering he was playing with one hand for about 8-9 games, wasn't bad at all.
The bad rep came from the benching, which was deserved I guess, but some other guys who have been playing significant roles on this team could've been scratched at that point too (Pominville, Roy).
That's not to say Hunter doesn't step up in the playoffs, again, I'd take him on the Sabres any day of the week, but I honestly don't have a problem with Max's playoff performances.
I actually brought that up less to show that Max was a poor playoff performer than I did to point out that Hunter is a good playoff performer.
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Originally Posted by Corto View Post
I completely understand Isles fans saying they wouldn't give up Hunter for Max, as I'm sure you understand us saying we wouldn't give up Max for HUnter.
My only problem is people who belittle one player to pimp the other guy's (imaginary) value up.
Both are very good players in their own right, and I'm happy with Afinogenov on my team. I'd be even happier with Afinogenov AND Hunter.
I agree that it's unfortunate when people can't have these discussions without ragging on each other's players, usually everyone just gets defensive and you can't really discuss the true merits. And I can certainly understand why the Sabres wouldn't want to move Max. He fits their style of play well and has been a big contributor for them. The same can be said for Hunter and the Isles. Also, both teams have had these players for their entire professional careers and it's important to build from within, not to mention stability. And frankly, purely on general market value, I think this proposal favors the Isles. And not that the trade isn't intriguing both for that reason, and that the Isles could use more speed and skill up front, but ignoring his market value, Hunter's value to the Islanders is just too high to move for anything that's even remotely fair market value.

Glad we understand each other though, makes having a discussion like this so much more enjoyable.

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