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Toskala = 1+3 -> Bryz = ?

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06-22-2007, 01:02 PM
  #1
snarktacular
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Toskala = 1+3 -> Bryz = ?

So looking at the Toskala trade, SJ got a 1st, a 2nd, and a 4th for Toskala and Bell. What implications does this have for Bryzgalov's value? Of course we'll probably trade him for players rather than picks, but picks do provide a certain "value currency."

Now to me, Bell is worth about a 3rd. 2+4 is roughly equal to 3+3, so that would make Toskala worth about a 1st (13th overall) and a 3rd. Maybe I'm of with Bell's worth, but that's my assumption.

Obviously Bryzgalov is worth a decent amount less than Toskala, as he hasn't really proven himself able to handle a workload (neither has Toskala really, but he's demonstrated more than Bryz). I personally always thought Bryz was worth a high 2nd or so, but with this trade he may be worth about a low 1st? Like 25th overall or so?

Blah blah blah, different teams, different needs, different values. This is just something to speculate about, pass the time until the draft. Your thoughts?

Edit: one other thing, the conditions are pretty cool in this trade. The Sharks have until the 13th pick to choose if they want the first this year or next year. And if it's top 10 next year, the Sharks get 09 instead. 09 might be the best case scenario, for a chance at Tavares. Those conditions seem pretty valuable, if you don't like who you get this year in a weak draft, you get a pick in next year's stronger draft.

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06-22-2007, 01:05 PM
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I think Bell's salary is a bit higher and the major incentive in making this deal was to clear cap space. Personally I think SJ shortchanged themselves.

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06-22-2007, 01:07 PM
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i don't want them to trade him for a pick i want like a defencemen

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06-22-2007, 01:10 PM
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I think San Jose made Toronto take Bell to lower cap space. This deal proves Toskala was worth a top 10 pick, so Bryz will fit around there as well.

I'd offer up Bryz and #16 to LA for #4. Yeah, you shouldn't deal with the Queens, and Bryz could probably turn them around, but, man, Karl Alzner would be awesome.

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06-22-2007, 01:15 PM
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What interests me too is Toronto wasn't even one of the teams that desperately needed a new goalie. Yeah they wanted to improve but Raycroft is still pretty good. Imagine what Boston, Florida, LA or Phoenix might do today. I think Bryz could get a similar deal. He is younger than Toskala and has a better playoff record which I think will be the biggest factor for his trade value.

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06-22-2007, 01:15 PM
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Although I would like a roster player, I wouldn't mind Bryz+1st to move up in the draft.

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06-22-2007, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliamad View Post
I think Bell's salary is a bit higher and the major incentive in making this deal was to clear cap space. Personally I think SJ shortchanged themselves.
Yeah SJ's main force is to purge salaries for an UFA. That's why they took picks. And Toskala was the way to get rid of Bell's salary. Who knows if we want to purge salary for UFA or get players from a trade.

But I still think SJ got good value. Toskala is good, but to get a mid first and another pick for him, plus freeing up Bell's salary, is a good move.

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06-22-2007, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davey Duck View Post
Although I would like a roster player, I wouldn't mind Bryz+1st to move up in the draft.
Quite honestly, in this draft with few surefire stars and a lot of maybes with question marks, I'd prefer a Bryz+3rd for a mid to late first. I just think getting another pick would give us a better chance than getting a better pick.


Last edited by snarktacular: 06-22-2007 at 01:29 PM. Reason: I failed Inglish
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06-22-2007, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obobo23 View Post
Now to me, Bell is worth about a 3rd.
Would you trade Rob Niedermayer for a 3rd? I honestly don't see much difference between the two.

Quote:
2+4 is roughly equal to 3+3
Only if the player you want in the second is still around in the 3rd. I'd rather make one good pick and one not so good pick than two iffy ones.

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06-22-2007, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Would you trade Rob Niedermayer for a 3rd? I honestly don't see much difference between the two.
Bell is only one year removed from being a 25 goal guy, and he's still gonna turn 27 in August. Rob Niedermayer hasn't approached 20 goals in quite some time, and will be 33 in December. Bell still has theoretical 2nd line upside while Niedermayer is a great 3rd line guy.

As for trading Bryzgalov......it all depends on the market of teams wanting a goaltender. It's almost like a game of musical chairs at this point.

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06-22-2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Would you trade Rob Niedermayer for a 3rd? I honestly don't see much difference between the two.
I'd say Rob is worth about a 2nd. To us he's more valuable with the Scott factor, but if we wanted to trade him I'd expect about a 2nd. I'd say Rob has more value just because he's better at filling a role (checker) than Bell's been doing at his (scorer for the 2nd line). And Sharks fans seem to hate him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank
Only if the player you want in the second is still around in the 3rd. I'd rather make one good pick and one not so good pick than two iffy ones.
2+4 is probably worth a little more, but I still think it's close. And the whole reason I did that is just to try to come up with a "draft pick trade value" for Bryz based off of this trade. Maybe I'm just wasting my time.

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06-22-2007, 03:31 PM
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I think everyone pretty much felt Bell is dead salary... he might do better in Toronto this year and has potential but that its highly doubltful Toronto was targeting him.

I think San Jose is dumping some salary to make some moves, most notably replace or resign Hannan.

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06-22-2007, 03:32 PM
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I'd be asking the world for Bryz right now. If no one wants to pay it fine. Play him a lot in early season and when someone goes down they'll be willing to pay a pretty penny i imagine.

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06-22-2007, 04:20 PM
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Vokoun goes for a first round pick and 2 seconds? Wowzer. Burke needs to get busy and get us a top 10 pick pronto for Bryz.

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06-22-2007, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliamad View Post
I'd be asking the world for Bryz right now. If no one wants to pay it fine. Play him a lot in early season and when someone goes down they'll be willing to pay a pretty penny i imagine.
That won't happen. Jiggy just got paid big money to be our undisputed, #1 goalie. Bryz is going to be traded because he deserves to be a #1 elsewhere and his value will definitely not be higher than it is today. It's a fire-sale for goalies right now and I'd be shocked not to see Bryz, Gerber and Fernandez all moved today.

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06-22-2007, 04:35 PM
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Hank
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Bell is only one year removed from being a 25 goal guy, and he's still gonna turn 27 in August. Rob Niedermayer hasn't approached 20 goals in quite some time, and will be 33 in December. Bell still has theoretical 2nd line upside while Niedermayer is a great 3rd line guy.
Bell is Niedermayer six years ago. The sooner he settles into a being a standout 3rd liner the sooner people's expectations will match reality.

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06-22-2007, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by obobo23 View Post
I'd say Rob is worth about a 2nd. To us he's more valuable with the Scott factor, but if we wanted to trade him I'd expect about a 2nd. I'd say Rob has more value just because he's better at filling a role (checker) than Bell's been doing at his (scorer for the 2nd line). And Sharks fans seem to hate him.
Seems like the 'Scott factor' evaporated with the cup.

Role-wise that's my point. San Jose is disappointed in Bell the same way Calgary was with Niedermayer. Bell is a 3rd liner.

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06-22-2007, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Bell is Niedermayer six years ago. The sooner he settles into a being a standout 3rd liner the sooner people's expectations will match reality.
And 6 years ago, Niedermayer was worth more in a trade than he was today.

The game of musical "who needs a goalie?" chairs continues with Florida now taking a seat. Which teams are still searching for a #1? Starting the season with Bryzgalov might not be the worst idea for the Ducks, a la Buffalo this year with Miller/Biron.

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06-22-2007, 05:10 PM
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I don't know. Bryz and Fernandez are really the only two big goalies left on the market...I think they will get high value.

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06-22-2007, 05:36 PM
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Hank
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
And 6 years ago, Niedermayer was worth more in a trade than he was today.
And today I wouldn't trade Niedermayer for a 3rd, so there's no way that is Bell's value as was originally stated.

Quote:
The game of musical "who needs a goalie?" chairs continues with Florida now taking a seat. Which teams are still searching for a #1? Starting the season with Bryzgalov might not be the worst idea for the Ducks, a la Buffalo this year with Miller/Biron.
I'm hoping a deal works out with Boston first, maybe Phoenix as a backup to that. Gerber and Fernandez are both still in play to complicate things though.

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06-22-2007, 06:03 PM
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Both make much more money for not much better play, if better at all however. Im sure Burke is hammering this home.

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06-22-2007, 06:06 PM
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caliamad
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Lets not forget we're not under the gone to unload Bryzgalov. We don't need to trade for a pick.

Plus until Scot and Teamu deicde what their doing Burke may not be sure what he needs more.

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06-22-2007, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Bell is Niedermayer six years ago. The sooner he settles into a being a standout 3rd liner the sooner people's expectations will match reality.
I got what you're saying now. Well Bell does have the physical tools to become the Rob of today. Big, can hit, good skater. Not to mention high pick. Remains to be seen if he can do it though. Not all players are willing to swallow their offense and concentrate on defense, especially formerly highly touted ones. I don't have see his value as being very high since he's essentially a failed scorer who could produce as a good utility checker.

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06-22-2007, 10:20 PM
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where do you think bryzgalov will go

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06-22-2007, 11:21 PM
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where do you think bryzgalov will go
I think the Bruins, Coyotes and Lightning are the main teams gunning for him. (Though the Bruins are going after Fernandez).

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