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Old
12-28-2003, 05:40 PM
  #26
Bill McNeal
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Honestly, I don't see the big deal. In the same situation I probably would have done the same thing. Not because I didn't want Hossa to score, but because I didn't want Ottawa to score and adrenaline takes over and I do everything at all costs to stop him. Like a guy on a breakaway. I haul him down. I know it's a penalty shot, but I gotta try.

As for my take on Kovalchuk: I used to have a problem with his celebrating. Now, I see it for what it is. The kid loves the game and loves to score. Sure, it sucks if he scores against your team, but what can you do? He's quickly becoming one of my fave players. Not many superstars, especially young ones, would be backchecking like he was doing anyway.

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12-28-2003, 05:49 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yes Im Peter Ing
I wouldn't call the move overly dangerous, nor do I think it carried the intent to injure. The stick was obviously aimed at the puck (which it hit).

Had these been isolated incidents, I wouldn't have cared (just like i didn't pay much mind to the celebrating incidents), but everything piling up is certainly creating a not to pleasant picture of Ilya.

You must be kidding...

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12-28-2003, 06:19 PM
  #28
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It was absolutely no big deal.

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12-28-2003, 07:48 PM
  #29
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I would have liked to see Hossa get a penalty shot against the empty net.

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Old
12-28-2003, 07:53 PM
  #30
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You'd think this was the first time someone did a desperation throw of the stick at a puck or something...

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Old
12-28-2003, 07:58 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
You'd think this was the first time someone did a desperation throw of the stick at a puck or something...
But, it was Kolvalchuk who did it. He can't do the same things as other players.

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12-28-2003, 08:38 PM
  #32
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Well to be fair, I don't think I've ever seen anyone in that situation do that. Although I've often wondered why they didn't, if only just to deny the b.astards the satisfaction of seeing the thing go in the net.

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12-28-2003, 08:45 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chock Full Of Booger
Well to be fair, I don't think I've ever seen anyone in that situation do that. Although I've often wondered why they didn't, if only just to deny the b.astards the satisfaction of seeing the thing go in the net.
I've seen it a lot more often with a goalie still in the net but out of position, but I have seen it a few times with the net completely empty. Often a player will be making a desperation dive and the stick will just slip out of their hand as they unsuccessfully attempt to keep a pinky on it.

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Old
12-28-2003, 09:05 PM
  #34
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That's borderline, though.

Kovalchuk just threw the thing.

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12-28-2003, 09:13 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSJTOM
Intent or not freak accidents happen and it became an automatic goal anyway, if anything it hampered their chances Hossa could have for all we know chocked and hit the post, shoot wide, slip and fall down, anything, throwing the stick didn't really do anything plus like I said it could have caused a freak accident, he's playing with Emotion I like that, but you gotta use the Head as well.

I'm usually the first to jump on Ilya bashers, cause I think this kid is a joy to watch, but to throw your stick is a brainless move, regardless of the score.

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Old
12-28-2003, 09:15 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
I'm usually the first to jump on Ilya bashers, cause I think this kid is a joy to watch, but to throw your stick is a brainless move, regardless of the score.
It was a dumb thing to do, no doubt about that, but certainly not deserving of a thread to discuss it. It's completely inconsequential in the long run in every respect.

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Old
12-28-2003, 09:21 PM
  #37
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What is cool is the "awarded goal", with the puck not actually going in the net. You don't see those everyday, and it certainly threw the Corel Center crowd for a loop. If it wasn't for the Pizza, I almost bet the crowd would have prefered to see an actual penalty shot in that situation :p

I also remember the thread about someone *****ing about that like it was yesterday

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Old
12-28-2003, 09:23 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egil
What is cool is the "awarded goal", with the puck not actually going in the net. You don't see those everyday, and it certainly threw the Corel Center crowd for a loop. If it wasn't for the Pizza, I almost bet the crowd would have prefered to see an actual penalty shot in that situation :p

I also remember the thread about someone *****ing about that like it was yesterday
Yeah I also remember that thread, someone didn't know the rule. I can't remember if that goal was awarded for a stick throw or dragging a guy down on a breakaway though.

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Old
12-29-2003, 04:43 AM
  #39
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Is there a player in the NHL watched as closely as Kovalchuk? Dissected and over-analyzed to such degree? Kovalchuk's critics are like a pack of wolfs - waiting for any misstep. A 19 year old Kovalchuk was called selfish because he "didn't pass enough". A 19 year old Nash is a hero despite his low assists number. Thornton, Heatley, Spezza, Lecavalier, ect. would have been praised to no end if they did what Kovalchuk is doing this season - facing adversity and becoming a leader. But Kovalchuk is judged by a different standard.

People need to get over the fact that he is not "one of theirs", and simply enjoy his game. Repeat after me: it's a GOOD thing that we have a player who brings skill, passion and excitement to the NHL. Enough of players with sour expression and lack of hart. Enjoy the old-time hockey from Kovy and Co.


Last edited by HockeyGoddess: 12-29-2003 at 08:51 AM. Reason: personal potshot removed
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Old
12-29-2003, 05:01 AM
  #40
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Well...

1. Kovalchuk should have used his head and not threw the stick because it's an automatic goal. Say what you want about the officiating, but that's a call they probably won't miss.

He probably would have been better off with betting Hossa would miss the open net (And I'm a Hossa FAN.)

2. I don't see how he's a "bad loser" because he threw a stick. Not a brilliant move, but no big deal.

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Old
12-29-2003, 06:27 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
It was a dumb thing to do, no doubt about that, but certainly not deserving of a thread to discuss it. It's completely inconsequential in the long run in every respect.

Yeah, but when a person is a superstar, everything they do is under the microscope.

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12-29-2003, 07:15 AM
  #42
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Kovalchuk bashers are getting a bit desperate. I can just picture a post like this showing up on HFB:

Kovalchook sneezes at the opposition

I always thought Kovalchook was a punk. But I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. I mean, I knew he was an ass: from the incident at the WJC (don't remember what it was; but I am sure it was bad), to the goal celebrations, to the mean smirk on his non-Canadian face... I just don't like the guy.

But now I simply lost all respect for him. Did you see how he sneezed right in front of the Senators bench?! Don't tell me it was nothin' - Kovalchook was trying to humiliate the opposing team, and to infect its star players. I hope this arrogant, rude and selfish punk goes back to Siberia. We don't need players like him around here. Kovalchuk may win the individual trophies - but we all know that a guy like him will never lead his team to the Stanley Cup.

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Old
12-29-2003, 07:29 AM
  #43
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One more thing to add. Because Kovolchuck threw the stick, the goal was unassisted. Other players arn't going to like losing points because of a stunt like that, should he continue doing it.

Also facinating from that was the claim by Savard that Lalime dove on his high stick. Apparantly Lalime can fake marks, replays and having his mask pop off. the replay was lying when it showed the stick getting cought inside of Lalime helmet....

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Old
12-29-2003, 08:54 AM
  #44
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Cut the crap, people. Keep personal shots out of this thread. You don't agree, fine, but if you want to belittle, berate, and torture each other, please do so via PMs.

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Old
12-29-2003, 09:14 AM
  #45
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Kovalchuk is a competitor. He desires to be the best. The fact that he got angry over missing a practice shot is great. He seeks perfection in his game. He has the great desire that you same people harass players like Daigle for lacking. How much desire to win is good? Should players just be indifferent?

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Old
12-29-2003, 09:18 AM
  #46
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Again..

Passion does not justify a lack of class.

Explain to me why it does.

You can find many players with passion who do not act like stuck up brats the way Kolvachuk does.

Passion is a positive thing, but it can also could the mind. Like anything it must be harnassed. Look at history. The most evil perpetrators of international rule of pocessed passion. It was this passion that lead them on their charge.

I'm not comparing Ilya to dictators, I'm merely giving an example.

By the way, Hossa agrees with me. He states in a post-game interview that he felt Ilya's move was unsportsmanlike.

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Old
12-29-2003, 09:26 AM
  #47
Yes Im Peter Ing
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I actually agree, the incident was no big deal. My point is I saw the incident as one small part of a larger issue. This was the first time I'd seen him play, so everything I'd heard about him up to this point was based on news and these boards. Hence, I just wrote off any prior incidents to him being young or just over-reaction. But now that I got a chance to see him first hand, I've changed my opinion, and that change of opinion was spurred by the stick throwing incident.

It's no big deal, but I don't want to have to put up with these little fits of being a sore-loser for the next 10 years over and over again, no matter how small they are in each instance. I hope he grows up.

Now, if I had posted a thread on this topic in a more neutrel manner, say just asking for opinions and not stating that I was anti-Ilya in this situation, do you think you or anyone else would have a problem with thread? I doubt it.

The incident happened so it's worth talking about here. The problem people had with this thread, I assume, is not the topic, but my stance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
It was a dumb thing to do, no doubt about that, but certainly not deserving of a thread to discuss it. It's completely inconsequential in the long run in every respect.

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Old
12-29-2003, 09:28 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yes Im Peter Ing
Again..

Passion does not justify a lack of class.

Explain to me why it does.
Perhaps it's just me but I don't see how getting mad over a missed shot shows lack of class. It shows a desire to win, and nothing else.

Also, yes Kovalchuk's empty-netter celebration made me sick at first, but as one guy said, he only celbrates when its an important goal.

To give you the example that seems to be sorely lacking from this thread: In a 3-1 loss to Toronto, Kovachuk scored with less than 2 minutes to go. He knew that the goal basically did nothing for the team, and didn't even allow himself a smile, just a tap on the helmet to the player who passed the puck to him.

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Old
12-29-2003, 09:28 AM
  #49
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Ahem:

"(Kovalchuk) tried," said Hartley. "That's the rule and that's the right call. It was worth a try."

...
...

I find that such a little thing (that was pretty much solved after Hossa was awarded the goal) was dragged on to this point...

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Old
12-29-2003, 09:31 AM
  #50
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It's a matter of principle. A player will build up notions of what is right or wrong in his opinion. Just like in real life, these principles will, in most cases, subconciously counter certain actions that he/she will be pushed to make. I think if Ilya valued not being a sore loser he natural reaction would be to not throw his stick. Why is he one of the only players to try this? Why don't others? Is there really a lack of passion in the NHL (I think this passion thing is way overblown. The game maybe boring, but the players are not the passionless robots people are making them out to be) or do players just have the commonsense to lose with dignity? Throwing your stick has always come off as such an amaturish baby move. It's something we did in Junior High ball hockey. The idea that the potential next Wayne Gretzky prescribes to this payground type ethic is worrying.


Last edited by HockeyGoddess: 12-29-2003 at 09:49 AM. Reason: Quoted, previously deleted post removed
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