HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Kovalchuk

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-29-2003, 09:35 AM
  #51
Yes Im Peter Ing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Yes Im Peter Ing
If he got mad, great. He should be; shows he is not just in it for the money. But what he did was not getting mad, it was just stubborn.

Here's a question: How many of you despise diving in soccer? I know there's many anti-soccer types on this board (tpyical North American vs European sports mentality confict).

People were disgusted when Rivaldo went down against Turkey in the World Cup. He said that smart players do this, in order to get the advantage. But it brings a bad face to the game. A top player acting like a guttless coward.

But he's only trying to win? Is that not passion?

What's the difference between what Ilya did and what Rivaldo and many soccer players before have done?

It maybe fueled by a passion to win, but in the end it looks amaturish and coming from a top player, it brings a bad face to the game.

Bending the rules is an accepted part of any sport. If your in the corner with a guy, and the ref can't see, you elbow the player in the ribs, give him a few illegal shots to dig that puck out. It's part of the game, but the key is that it's small.

Whipping your stick across the ice (and in a game that is lost?) that's not using the ref's lack of perspective to your advantage, that's not being cunning and bending the rules to your advantage.. that's just amaturishness. Do people actually believe Ilya felt the ref would miss the play?

His decision to throw the stick was not fueled by any attempt to bend the rules (like most average players do) to their advantage, his was just blatant cheating in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Perhaps it's just me but I don't see how getting mad over a missed shot shows lack of class. It shows a desire to win, and nothing else.

Also, yes Kovalchuk's empty-netter celebration made me sick at first, but as one guy said, he only celbrates when its an important goal.

To give you the example that seems to be sorely lacking from this thread: In a 3-1 loss to Toronto, Kovachuk scored with less than 2 minutes to go. He knew that the goal basically did nothing for the team, and didn't even allow himself a smile, just a tap on the helmet to the player who passed the puck to him.

Yes Im Peter Ing is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 09:37 AM
  #52
TelperiŽn
Registered User
 
TelperiŽn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Galaxy Far Far Away
Country: England
Posts: 1,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yes Im Peter Ing
It's a matter of principle. A player will build up notions of what is right or wrong in his opinion. Just like in real life, these principles will, in most cases, subconciously counter certain actions that he/she will be pushed to make. I think if Ilya valued not being a sore loser he natural reaction would be to not throw his stick. Why is he one of the only players to try this? Why don't others? Is there really a lack of passion in the NHL (I think this passion thing is way overblown. The game maybe boring, but the players are not the passionless robots people are making them out to be) or do players just have the commonsense to lose with dignity? Throwing your stick has always come off as such an amaturish baby move. It's something we did in Junior High ball hockey. The idea that the potential next Wayne Gretzky prescribes to this payground type ethic is worrying.
What's right and wrong? Sore loser?! Amaturish baby move?

You've lost me there. On another note, if you've got something against him, just say so - then I won't have to waste my time trying to figure things out.

TelperiŽn is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 09:39 AM
  #53
Yes Im Peter Ing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Yes Im Peter Ing
For the hundred-millionth time, I know it's a small thing!

That's not the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IlyaK17
Ahem:

"(Kovalchuk) tried," said Hartley. "That's the rule and that's the right call. It was worth a try."

...
...

I find that such a little thing (that was pretty much solved after Hossa was awarded the goal) was dragged on to this point...

Yes Im Peter Ing is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 09:44 AM
  #54
TelperiŽn
Registered User
 
TelperiŽn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Galaxy Far Far Away
Country: England
Posts: 1,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yes Im Peter Ing
For the hundred-millionth time, I know it's a small thing!

That's not the point.
OK:

W-H-A-T I-S-T-H-E-P-O-I-N-T-T-H-E-N?

You know, I would have tried to understand you - really ... if you had not said: Would someone - anyone - give this spoiled brat what's coming to him: a closeup encounter between the ice and his face.

Sorry, I hate it when people wish injury upon others.

TelperiŽn is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 09:53 AM
  #55
btn
Gone Hollywood
 
btn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ATL
Country: United States
Posts: 15,672
vCash: 500
You know Peter, I think the main problem I have with this 3 page rant of yours is the fact that you insist on using such terms as classless, spoiled brat, and sore loser to describe Ilya Kovalchuk. When all he did was try to prevent an EN goal by tossing his stick at the puck.

It is pretty clear that you have alot of pent up hostility towards Ilya, and that it is manifesting itself in your irrational behavior over what is quite a minor incident.

If you want to get on your high horse over Ilya's "attitude" feel free, but just be aware that your view is your own and that you do not have some divine right to declare who is a good hockey player and who is a bad one. Apparently they leave that to Don Cherry north of the border.

btn is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 10:02 AM
  #56
Yes Im Peter Ing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Yes Im Peter Ing
Eh?

I can assure you have no inner-demons to deal with in regards to Ilya. Maybe, not everyone feels the same way about him as you do. He's a public figure, and as such is open to such scrutiny. That's a fact.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that I'm not judging him based on this instance alone, so please stop saying that I am.

I also never claimed my opinion was divine judgement. Where do you get this stuff? I'm merely voicing my opinion.

No offense, but I think the only people getting irrational over this are the Ilya lovers.

Yes Im Peter Ing is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 10:04 AM
  #57
cws
...in the drink
 
cws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 1,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yes Im Peter Ing
For the hundred-millionth time, I know it's a small thing!

That's not the point.
Then like the rest of us here, I just have to wonder why you keep harping on it if it is such a small incident.

Your point overall was to show how Kovalchuk is classless or too over-the-top, or something of that nature. We all got that. And in reading all this, one thing pops out. You are just about the only one who feels this way. The rest of us like or love his passion and zeal, how he wears his emotions on his sleeve, how he is a perfectionist and only looks to improve.

I was gonna use the youth thing, citing how he is still very young and over time such behavior will be toned down. But older players sometimes act over the top as well (makes you believe more that it is passion). Does he do things that make the game look worse at times? Yup. Do other high-profile players do things that make the game look bad? Yup. Does Kovalchuk and other star players do more things to make the league look good? That is a very emphatic yes. Forgive them, they are human.

Here's a quote I thought relevant, to hopefully get you thinking a bit.
"A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes anotherís."

cws is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 10:07 AM
  #58
Epsilon
#TeamHolland
 
Epsilon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 35,855
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egil
One more thing to add. Because Kovolchuck threw the stick, the goal was unassisted. Other players arn't going to like losing points because of a stunt like that, should he continue doing it.
*****ing about your personal stats sounds a lot more classless and unsportsmanlike than anything Ilya's done to me. Can you imagine if a basketball player like Kobe Bryant was complaining the way Wade Redden was at the end of the game yesterday? He'd get roasted over the coals for being selfish and only caring about his numbers.

Epsilon is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 10:11 AM
  #59
Yes Im Peter Ing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Yes Im Peter Ing
The issue is not this one incident, it's Ilya as a whole. This incident is merely indicative of his nature as a player.

And I'm only arguing my stance. What should I do if people respond?

If I'm the only one who feels this way, then why was everyone going on about some mythical band of Ilya haters that I'm supposedly a part of?

Here's a quote I thought relevant, to hopefully get you thinking a bit.
"A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes anotherís."


Then what would that say about all the people who launched accusations and slurs at me?

Yes Im Peter Ing is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 10:36 AM
  #60
Lobstertainment
Registered User
 
Lobstertainment's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,257
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Lobstertainment
ok I've sene it on the highlights now and here's what I have to say

Bad Move.

I'm not bashing Kovalchuk, but I still see no reason for it, Yes it's a small thing, but there was no reason to do it, it was a stupid, stupid, move.

However there's no reason to continue a topic on this this long, he made IMHO a dumb play, who doesn't? at one point or another everyone makes dumb plays, as for the Fist pumping into empty nets, while I don't like them I'm not going to hate the guy for it, for smacking the boards on a missed shot in practice, like I said earlier I have smacked the post before after giving up some bad goals in Practice to sych myself up, from my perspective he was doing the same, as was Hasek when he hit the boards.

like I said freak accidents happen Hossa could have hurt himself, and there was a better chance of him not scoring had Kovalchuk kept the stick in his hands, dumb move but like I said at some point everyone, yes even wayne, has and will make a dumb move.

Lobstertainment is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 10:51 AM
  #61
cws
...in the drink
 
cws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 1,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yes Im Peter Ing
The issue is not this one incident, it's Ilya as a whole. This incident is merely indicative of his nature as a player.

And I'm only arguing my stance. What should I do if people respond?

If I'm the only one who feels this way, then why was everyone going on about some mythical band of Ilya haters that I'm supposedly a part of?

Here's a quote I thought relevant, to hopefully get you thinking a bit.
"A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes anotherís."


Then what would that say about all the people who launched accusations and slurs at me?
In this particular thread, you are one of the few going off about Ilya. There are others out there like yourself, for whatever reason looking to finding fault with the slightest of his actions. These people are easy to find, there's been other threads about him. There is nothing mythical about the people ragging on him.

That quote already answered your question. I did aim it at you, but I put it out there for everyone to see. They should see it and think about it as well as you. But I get the sense you're trying to deflect here, using that quote to put the emphasis back on your accusers.

I try to judge others as little as possible, mostly because it's not my place to do so and there is no realistic way that I could even if I wanted to. I err on occasion though and make a judgment from time to time. I'm human, I make mistakes. But I'm not judging you here, just trying to show you how I see the situation. Take that for what you will.

cws is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 11:15 AM
  #62
Yes Im Peter Ing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Yes Im Peter Ing
I'm not trying to deflect, I'm only making sure that criticism is distributed fairly.

Your stance on judgement is noble, and maybe I was somewhat wrong in my criticism of Ilya, but I think your contention is also somewhat naive.

Judgement is natural. It's a large part of how we make business decisions when dealing with outside parties, it's a large part of how we pick life partners. It may not be pretty, but it's I think it's reality.

I will say this, I didn't jump to conclusions prematurely. I based my criticsm on a number of instances. And if I'm proven wrong, I will be more than happy to admit it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cwthrash
In this particular thread, you are one of the few going off about Ilya. There are others out there like yourself, for whatever reason looking to finding fault with the slightest of his actions. These people are easy to find, there's been other threads about him. There is nothing mythical about the people ragging on him.

That quote already answered your question. I did aim it at you, but I put it out there for everyone to see. They should see it and think about it as well as you. But I get the sense you're trying to deflect here, using that quote to put the emphasis back on your accusers.

I try to judge others as little as possible, mostly because it's not my place to do so and there is no realistic way that I could even if I wanted to. I err on occasion though and make a judgment from time to time. I'm human, I make mistakes. But I'm not judging you here, just trying to show you how I see the situation. Take that for what you will.

Yes Im Peter Ing is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 11:46 AM
  #63
Egil
Registered User
 
Egil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
*****ing about your personal stats sounds a lot more classless and unsportsmanlike than anything Ilya's done to me. Can you imagine if a basketball player like Kobe Bryant was complaining the way Wade Redden was at the end of the game yesterday? He'd get roasted over the coals for being selfish and only caring about his numbers.
I don't think either player complained (I certainly havn't seen it). Hossa said "he felt sorry for those other 2 guys who didn't get their assists", which can hardly be described as selfish....

Egil is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 12:14 PM
  #64
Epsilon
#TeamHolland
 
Epsilon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 35,855
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egil
I don't think either player complained (I certainly havn't seen it). Hossa said "he felt sorry for those other 2 guys who didn't get their assists", which can hardly be described as selfish....
I heard Redden on the TV today. He tried to cover it by saying "I don't really care about the assist" but you could tell from the way he was talking that probably wasn't the case.

Epsilon is offline  
Old
12-29-2003, 06:39 PM
  #65
Sotnos
Registered User
 
Sotnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Not here
Posts: 10,900
vCash: 500
This flame fest is done. I haven't had time to go through and read all the stuff that got deleted, but people can start threads on whatever they want (within the rules). If you have a problem with the topic, attack the topic, not other posters. Period.

Sotnos is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:26 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.