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Is Lecavalier a plausible acquisition?

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12-29-2003, 06:34 AM
  #1
serum114
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Is Lecavalier a plausible acquisition?

Question to toss out here: Is Kevin Lowe making a move and acquiring Vincent Lecavalier a plausible scenario?

Personally, I think it is, based on a few factors.

First, as he showed with the widely-reported, never-confimred deal he had in place for Lindros, Lowe's got the balls to make a deal along those lines. He isn't afraid to move big pieces to get big pieces.

Second, he has been in the market for a big, legit top line C since at least the off season (see the comments to Comrie about it) and Lecavalier is about as taylor made for the post-2004, big #1 C role as you can get.

Third, he's got the pieces to make a move now. With the speculation over Brewer/Smith (one of whom would have to go back Tampa way in a Vinny deal, they need the D), with our glut of quality young forwards and with our extra first round pick, the parts are in place.

I wouldn't put it past KLowe, but I wonder what the price would be? I would post this on the trade rumours board, but nothing productive ever happens there, so I'd rather post it here (and on the Bolts board).

My question is this, what are your thoughts on a deal like so:

To TB: Smith, Horcoff and PHI 1 - 2004
To EDM: Lecavalier

The Bolts land a legit 2/3 D man with leadership and experience (who is an RFA at years end, but likely won't get more than 3 mil), a solid bottom six role player who steps it up in the playoffs and big games (like the World Championships) and a first rounder.

Thoughts?

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12-29-2003, 06:51 AM
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theoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serum114
My question is this, what are your thoughts on a deal like so:

To TB: Smith, Horcoff and PHI 1 - 2004
To EDM: Lecavalier

The Bolts land a legit 2/3 D man with leadership and experience (who is an RFA at years end, but likely won't get more than 3 mil), a solid bottom six role player who steps it up in the playoffs and big games (like the World Championships) and a first rounder.

Thoughts?
My first thought is what do we do for defence for the rest of the season? Lynch? Woywitka? I don't believe Allen will ever play for this team other than as an emergency call-up. What is Lecavalier making?

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12-29-2003, 06:53 AM
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Personally, I still don't think it's enough. If they're going to make a run to put them over the top for contending for the Cup... Smith is really the only valuable asset they get back. And he's going to be 30 years old and they won't have him for that long anyways RFA or not.

Horcoff and a "late" 1st rounder don't fill the gap. I'm pretty sure another team could come up with a better offer than the one proposed which would inherently drive up Lecavalier's value.

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12-29-2003, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serum114
Question to toss out here: Is Kevin Lowe making a move and acquiring Vincent Lecavalier a plausible scenario?
(Cue hoard of outraged Bolts fans.)

Possible yes, plausible no.

I'm a huge Lecavalier fan, despite his consistency troubles. I think the kid is a franchise center of the manner the Oilers sorely need, but I'm not sure Edmonton has what's needed to pry him out of Tampa. I think the list would have to include Brewer, and likely someone like Niinimaki, Rita, and at least one first-rounder. But where would that leave the Bolts down the middle? Thin for this season, at least.

I agree that Lowe has the guts to make an offer, but I'm not convinced that his counterpart in Tampa would roll the dice on letting go a potential superstar before his peak-let's call it Bertuzzi/Naslund Syndrome. (Or, to be more fair, Miro Satan syndrome.) Too bad Comrie is no longer a trading chip if Vincent truly is on the block; let's admit it, the guy has been "traded" almost as much as Radek Bonk.

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12-29-2003, 07:10 AM
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Lecavalier would be a nice nice pick up.I think Smith,Philly 1st and Horcoff is ok.But do they really want Horcoff change Horcoff to something a little better and it might be possible.

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12-29-2003, 08:34 AM
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Mr Sakich
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I think that something is up. Last week, I posted on the TB boards an idea of smyth and smith for vinny. On the main boards, it was considered fair value, on the TB boards it was not enough for Saint Vincent.

IMO, Lowe is building for post 2004 and Smith does not make sense unless lowe can get his signature on a long term deal like smyth, ethan, staois, and cross. If lowe can't get gator to sign, then he is as good as gone.

Right now, the leafs, sens, flyers, and jersey are better than TB. If they want to compete for a cup this year, they need a guy like smith to anchor their blue line. If they are serious about a cup run, then moving vinnie is a possibility. Check his ice time for the last few games and you will see that they are playing him 3rd line minutes and it is not working. There is a big battle of wills and something has to give.

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12-29-2003, 08:35 AM
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The Rage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serum114

To TB: Smith, Horcoff and PHI 1 - 2004
To EDM: Lecavalier
I think if you give TB Brewer, Pouilot (or some other high level prospect), and Edm 1-2004, there might be a deal to be made. I'm not even sure if that's enough, but I would make that deal (perhaps reluctantly).

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12-29-2003, 08:45 AM
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Because Feaster won't be in a hurry to trade Lecavalier, I doubt Edmonton has anything Tbay would want. I'd like to think that Lowe could pull a fast one on Feaster but that's not going to happen. Feaster's gonna sk for the farm and only teams that can afford to mortgage their futures (Detroit, NYR, Philly) will be in the running for Lecavalier.

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12-29-2003, 08:46 AM
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Um........

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12-29-2003, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
Feaster's gonna sk for the farm and only teams that can afford to mortgage their futures (Detroit, NYR, Philly) will be in the running for Lecavalier.
I don't think that's true. The Bolts will want womething substantial that will help them now. Detroit and Philly won't offer them that (especially not Philly who have a glut on centres and a glut of centre prospects). NYR doesn't really have much to offer.

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12-29-2003, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Um........
Is there something better to do the way things are going?

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12-29-2003, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoil
Is there something better to do the way things are going?
Hey, I would love Vinny to come here. I just don't think we have what they are looking for.

But that said. I think Brewer is what they would need in a deal.(Not Jason Smith) With Cullimore, Sarich and Lukowich, their defense is strong and tough already. They would need a more finesse guy (Which explains their interest in Hamrlik.) and Eric would be it.

I would say that if we trade a blueliner, Woywitka would come up.

I don't think we would be players in that ball game though.

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12-29-2003, 10:42 AM
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Do you really think that K-Lo would part with Brewer after how highly he speaks of him?

If we were bringing in Lecavalier, that would probably give us enough room to move Pouliot the other way, or even Niinimaki. I'm more in favour of moving Pouliot in a potential Lecavalier deal than Niinimaki though.

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12-29-2003, 11:17 AM
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I think maybe something along the lines of

Jason Smith, Shawn Horcoff & Jani Rita for Vincent Lecavlier +
mid.-late rd. pick/lesser d-man.

they'd upgrade on their defensive toughness, & acquire a proven leader, Jani Rita is talented & i'm not sure if the Oilers will give him the chance he deserves, & Shawn Horcoff has picked up his play as of late & could be a good fit in Tampa.

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12-29-2003, 11:30 AM
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They would have to give up alot more than Smith and Horcoff...try Brewer and York for Lecavalier and a pick. But even so, it's a pretty unlikely scenario for the Oilers to land Lecavalier.

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12-29-2003, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerrick
Do you really think that K-Lo would part with Brewer after how highly he speaks of him?
I am saying if he wanted Lecavalier he would have to. Smith and change won't land Lecavalier. Like I said in an earlier post. Cullimore and Sarich and Lukowich already do what Smith does. They need a Hamrlik, Brewer, Niinimaa type player. They do not need a Smith player.

Pouliot, Niinimaki...Tampa have players in the minors with just as much upside in Artukhin and Svitov. With Polushin, But, Somervouri and Henrich still evolving...I am pretty certain that our prospects don't excite them all that much.

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12-29-2003, 11:54 AM
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Do they need a Laraque type player? Like maybe....Laraque?

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12-29-2003, 12:01 PM
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I imagine that Tampa Bay would want something along the lines of a Brewer, Smyth package.

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12-29-2003, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujo_31
I think maybe something along the lines of

Jason Smith, Shawn Horcoff & Jani Rita for Vincent Lecavlier +
mid.-late rd. pick/lesser d-man.
Last year they wanted Bonk & Spezza from the Sens. I don't think that package is going to get you very far.

Think Hemsky, York, Brewer... no way will you land a 6'4, 23yo, top-6, Canadian-born, #1 overall pick, coming off a near-ppg season without doing that.

You're not dealing with Mike Milbury.

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12-29-2003, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerrick
I imagine that Tampa Bay would want something along the lines of a Brewer, Smyth package.
BTW I think Lecavalier is making 2.6 mil this year and it bumps up to about 4 mil next year which is his final year of this contract I believe.

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12-29-2003, 08:34 PM
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We are talking about a big, elite number one centreman. To cash this lottery ticket we are looking at Smith, Smyth, and Pouliot/first-rounder. Tampa would likely want Brewer vs. Smith given age.

Likely a pipe-dream but ...

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12-29-2003, 09:02 PM
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Yes, Lecavalier is possible to get in a trade. More possible than some? Yes.

However, let's examine, first off, what the Bolts need.

At left wing, they have Modin (who'se on to a fine start), Andreychuk (still useful in his old age) and Stillman (having a strong season so far). In fact, left wing is a pretty solid position for Tampa Bay.

At centre, without Lecavalier mind you, they'd have Richards and maybe Stillman if he moves over, in the top 6. If they move Lecavalier, they very well might ask for a centre back.

At right wing, St.Louis is an awesome guy, but right wing, second line is really dim at the moment. Probobly their biggest need at forward.

On defense, their top 4 consists of Jassen Cullimore, Pavel Kubina (breaking out), Cory Sarich (having another upgrade of a season), and Dan Boyle. Two left side men, two right side men. They could maybe use one more top 4 guy, but they are not all that bad on their blueline.

Obviously with Khabibulin and Graham, they are fine in net.

So if you recognize their biggest needs are, in order:

#1 - Right wing 2nd liner
#2 - Top 4 defensemen
#3 - Centreman in the 2nd or 3rd line bracket

What would Edmonton have to assuage these needs? #1 - Hemsky or Dvorak, #2 - Brewer or Smith, and #3 - Just York.

Now ask yourself this, are you guys willing to move one of Hemsky, Brewer, or York to get Lecavalier? And also knowing that, would you make the move knowing that it'd still probobly take another impact player beyond those three to land the guy?

We're talking something like: Hemsky & Smith or Brewer & Dvorak. Would you make that deal? If so, maybe Lecavalier could be a Oiler. If not, there really isn't much of a deal to be had. You're not going to get Lecavalier for Horcoff and picks.

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12-30-2003, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyCanuck19
They would have to give up alot more than Smith and Horcoff...try Brewer and York for Lecavalier and a pick. But even so, it's a pretty unlikely scenario for the Oilers to land Lecavalier.
Woah! This isn't Naslund or Iginla or Modano they are trading for. This is a young kid with an attitude problem who is still looking to move to the next level if that is possible. York and Brewer? That my friend is giving way too much.

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12-30-2003, 05:53 AM
  #24
Mr Sakich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
Woah! This isn't Naslund or Iginla or Modano they are trading for. This is a young kid with an attitude problem who is still looking to move to the next level if that is possible. York and Brewer? That my friend is giving way too much.
finally some sanity on the subject. I am hoping for a vinny trade because he meets a need but there is no way that he is worth Brewer straight accross.

Right now, he is a second line centre whose playing time is dropping and is headed the wrong way in terms of plus minus. Combine this with the fact that TB has one of the easiest schedules (only atlanta and ott have had easier schedules) and he is on pace for 48 points and minus 10. BTW, the oilers are tied with Pheonix as having the toughest schedule so far this year.

York is having a much better season and is probably a better player straight accross. Their career ppg is almost identical in spite of York playing behind veterans and Vinny being handed the first line centre job in his rookie year.

I could see a deal centering on smith because of his age / contract status. Something like smith + oates + laraque/rita as being fair value, especially if TB could get oates name on a contract extension.

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12-30-2003, 06:45 AM
  #25
sensens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
Woah! This isn't Naslund or Iginla or Modano they are trading for. This is a young kid with an attitude problem who is still looking to move to the next level if that is possible. York and Brewer? That my friend is giving way too much.
I agree it's a high price tag, and the Oilers will more than likely just decline - but that's pretty mcuh what it's going to cost to get Lecavalier. Say what you will, but he's already had 67 and 78pt seasons, and he's only 23 - which is younger than Mike Comrie. And unlike Comrie, he's 6'4 (not 5'10 in thick socks), and isn't on contract hold-out.

It took Thornton a couple of years to get going as well... Iginla & Naslund too. Plus power forward-style players notoriously take longer to develop, and Lecavalier still has very high-end star potential.There's simply no way the Lightning are going to give up on that without substantial return.

Bits and pieces just aren't going to cut it. If the Oilers can't afford it, then fine - but they aren't going to somehow steal away a player like Lecavalier without paying a premium.


Last edited by sensens: 12-30-2003 at 07:02 AM.
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