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Canucks/Sharks Proposal

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Old
12-30-2003, 07:04 AM
  #26
kenabnrmal
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Anyone who's watched Marleau half closely over the past couple of seasons can see that he's simply dripping with talent, and he's shown enough flashes of dominance that it can still be expected, even at his age, that he'll put all the pieces together and be a bonifide number one center. He's starting to do it consistently this season, and theres absolutely no incentive for the Sharks to deal him, period.

Now, for the Sedin brothers? Yikes...the Sharks have plenty of puck-possession, two-way types. They need scorers...Marleau is one, the Sedins aren't. End of story.

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12-30-2003, 07:48 AM
  #27
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Since when did Patrick Marleau become worthy of the praise being thrown around in this thread?
Take out 'Patrick Marleau' and insert 'the Sedins', and that's how I feel about it too.

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Old
12-30-2003, 09:44 AM
  #28
Epsilon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Take out 'Patrick Marleau' and insert 'the Sedins', and that's how I feel about it too.
I don't see anyone in here praising the Sedins, and they shouldn't be either. But the two of them together are worth Marleau, and some of the stuff thrown in here as "fact" (Marleau outpoints both together, Marleau will score more goals than they will combined points, etc.) is flat-out nonsense.

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Old
12-30-2003, 09:48 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
I don't see anyone in here praising the Sedins, and they shouldn't be either. But the two of them together are worth Marleau, and some of the stuff thrown in here as "fact" (Marleau outpoints both together, Marleau will score more goals than they will combined points, etc.) is flat-out nonsense.
Give me one good reason why the Sharks trade Marleau for the Sedins.

Just one.

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12-30-2003, 10:10 AM
  #30
Epsilon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Give me one good reason why the Sharks trade Marleau for the Sedins.

Just one.
Ugh, did I say that they should? No, I said the value was about even. Read kenabnrmal's post for a perfectly good explanation of why the deal itself doesn't make sense. But don't try to justify not making a deal with made-up statistical justifications.

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12-30-2003, 10:30 AM
  #31
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I think Epilson's position is...if Marleau's potential is being counted then why aren't the Sedins? Marleau is finally showin some consistency to his immense potential (I think hes capable of more but thats another thread) but also has 2 years up on the Sedins to realize it. Shouldn't they be given the same benefit of doubt instead of being labeled "third liners." I wouldn't deal those Patty for those two but that is due to what the Sharks need to be a contender. Valuewise, its there but the Sharks need the bigtime scorer that Patty is seemingly becoming.

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Old
12-30-2003, 10:32 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty Ice XXX
I think Epilson's position is...if Marleau's potential is being counted then why aren't the Sedins? Marleau is finally showin some consistency to his immense potential (I think hes capable of more but thats another thread) but also has 2 years up on the Sedins to realize it. Shouldn't they be given the same benefit of doubt instead of being labeled "third liners." I wouldn't deal those Patty for those two but that is due to what the Sharks need to be a contender. Valuewise, its there but the Sharks need the bigtime scorer that Patty is seemingly becoming.


If the Sharks were a flashy team that needed some defensive awareness and puck-control hockey, then the deal would be a fair one. But they are the exact opposite and so the proposal didn't make sense right from the start. It's not like the proposal was Sedins for Joe Thornton.

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Old
12-30-2003, 10:51 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
Ugh, did I say that they should? No, I said the value was about even. Read kenabnrmal's post for a perfectly good explanation of why the deal itself doesn't make sense. But don't try to justify not making a deal with made-up statistical justifications.
Made up? Them's the numbers according to hockeydb.com. If you look really, really closely, you can see that marleau is a year older than the Sedins. Yet Marleau has more points and goals and games played than the twins put together, tell me again where the statistics justify dealing one player for a pair of players that are just as young?

Marleau obviously has more talent in his little finger than both the Sedins put together, do the math. Look at the plays Marleau makes and then look at what the Sedins do.

By the way, I added the stats up for my own personal amusement. I mean I couldn't stop laughing when I read the initial trade proposal. Then I read the stats and nearly soiled myself. So I'm so very happy I saved you the fruitless hours of adding those numbers. Keep on dreaming pal. The numbers, as well as common sense say that would be a stupid deal for the Sharks. We'll not mention that fact Davidson was even mentioned as a throw in. Value? Value is experience.

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Old
12-30-2003, 10:59 AM
  #34
landshark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty Ice XXX
I think Epilson's position is...if Marleau's potential is being counted then why aren't the Sedins? Marleau is finally showin some consistency to his immense potential (I think hes capable of more but thats another thread) but also has 2 years up on the Sedins to realize it. Shouldn't they be given the same benefit of doubt instead of being labeled "third liners." I wouldn't deal those Patty for those two but that is due to what the Sharks need to be a contender. Valuewise, its there but the Sharks need the bigtime scorer that Patty is seemingly becoming.
That's why I added the first three years up for Marleau for comparison to the Sedins. I thought that would be fair, but the proof is in the pudding. Marleau is 1 year younger than the twins; he has the talent to start playing and producing in the NHL at an age that was 2 years younger than the age the twins started.

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Old
12-30-2003, 11:29 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1cheech4
Hey, that sound like it could be a trade - Ricci for Chubarov.
Valuewise the Sedins for Marleau might be close but there is no reason at all for the Sharks to even consider a trade like that.

But I agree with the quote, Chubarov for Ricci and a low draft pick or a prospect.

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Old
12-30-2003, 11:34 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark
Marleau is 1 year younger than the twins; he has the talent to start playing and producing in the NHL at an age that was 2 years younger than the age the twins started.
That makes zero sense. You are saying he is better because he started in the NHL earlier? I guess Zetterberg is not as good as Upshall then, since Zetterberg wasn't "good enough" to come to the NHL earlier.
Patty Ice's post sums it up nicely. The deal makes no sense for either team. But it is pretty close to fair value. The Sedins still have alot of upside and could easily turn into 50-60pt players in the NHL. If they did, the Sharks would win that trade easily. Marleau is a great hockey player and I can see why you don't want to move him, but you are being a bit homerish in your valuation of his worth IMO.

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Old
12-30-2003, 11:37 AM
  #37
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I can't see SJ making that deal. The Canucks have invested a lot of patience in the twins & they've seen some promise that they could be better. However, I think Marleau (although also underperforming somewhat) is worth more than the two of them combined. It will be interesting to see if the Canucks hang tough with the two of them or if they dish 1 or both of them. The Canucks need dependable secondary scoring to make waves in the playoffs and right now I don't think they have it. I wonder what the asking price for Comrie would be? <however, no way Clarke would take the twins>

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Old
12-30-2003, 12:57 PM
  #38
Vatican Roulette
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vee-Dub
The Sedins are the reason why King has 11 goals. Considering how many minutes they get per game (about 12), their production with King is pretty good. It would be nice to see them score more for sure, but they are playing decently and King would be nowhere without them. I am sure if they played with a good player in SJ, they would produce fairly well. The Sedins and Michalek, as someone already mentioned, would be a fantastic line for the future.
If this trade happened it would probably be a bad trade for both teams though, since the Sedins will only get better and could burn Vancouver, but SJ would lose alot of goal scoring and the best player in the trade.

Weren't kings 11 goals scored at the beginning of the year? He hasn't scored on a consistant level since then. He got hot, then cooled off. The Sedin's 5 goals combined, and the fact that they have not lived up to their billing of the 2nd and 3rd overall picks doesn't boast well for their trade value.

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Old
12-30-2003, 01:33 PM
  #39
Phaze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
Weren't kings 11 goals scored at the beginning of the year? He hasn't scored on a consistant level since then. He got hot, then cooled off. The Sedin's 5 goals combined, and the fact that they have not lived up to their billing of the 2nd and 3rd overall picks doesn't boast well for their trade value.
Yes, King's goals were all in November. And yes, that line is for the most part ice cold (at least scoring wise). My point was simply that King would never have 11 goals had it not been for the Sedins playmaking. Almost all of his goals were easy tap ins that I could have scored myself, and the Sedins should be given credit for that even though they themselves were not scoring the goals. Alas, they are cooler than a polar bears toenails now, but the Sedins are still very young and could easily be 50-60 point players in the NHL. This is why most people feel the trade is fair value. SJ would lose the deal if the Sedins have plateaued, but they most likely have not. Again, I don't want to give you the impression I think the trade is a good idea, because I don't. It is a bad idea for both teams IMO. But it is pretty close to fair value.

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