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I am starting to support a Smyth trade

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Old
12-30-2003, 10:25 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongDon
The point I was trying to make though was that, Smyth is our highest paid forward, that means he should be our best forward right?
This has been my point since the middle of last season. I have taken more flack for it and now I see some of the people that ripped my opinion are also agreeing with me. Smyth is overpaid for what he is doing. He hasn't dominated any games - and as the Oilers highest paid skater that just doesn't cut it. Dvorak, York, Reasoner (before the injury), Torres, Moreau etc. have all done their jobs and done them well. Smyth hasn't. I would love to see some new blood in here with talent. Smyth needs to be a secondary scorer - ie. With a beauty setup man. He is not capable of being "the guy".

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12-30-2003, 02:48 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Walsher
This has been my point since the middle of last season. I have taken more flack for it and now I see some of the people that ripped my opinion are also agreeing with me. Smyth is overpaid for what he is doing. He hasn't dominated any games - and as the Oilers highest paid skater that just doesn't cut it. Dvorak, York, Reasoner (before the injury), Torres, Moreau etc. have all done their jobs and done them well. Smyth hasn't. I would love to see some new blood in here with talent. Smyth needs to be a secondary scorer - ie. With a beauty setup man. He is not capable of being "the guy".


I could'nt agree with you more. I've been saying for years that Smyth is overrated and have also got flack for it. Now that he does'nt have Weight or Comrie dishing to him it seems everyone else might be seeing the real Smyth i've seen for years.

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12-30-2003, 07:00 PM
  #28
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How about this:

To Ott: Smyth, Laraque


To TB: Havlat, Smith


To Edm: Lecavalier, Neil

Ottawa gets their gritty scorer on LW and a great playoff guy in Laraque. TB gets a defensive leader in Smith and a super talented winger in Havlat. Tampa then trades Knabibulin to Philly for Primeau and Esche.
The Oilers get their front line center.

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12-30-2003, 07:06 PM
  #29
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Heck no

I am dead against trading Smyth. Do any of you guys play hockey? Yeah the neat flash in a pan hockey players are cute to watch once in a while but it is the guys that bust their butt that win the games. Smyth has done whatever this organization has ever asked him to do. His defense has come a long way and is on the top penalty killing unit now. For the past long while Smyth has worked harder than he has ever worked. I don't remember seeing Smyth being this physical. Just a couple of games back someone took a run at an Oiler player and Smyth came out the next shift and was hitting evrything in sight. Again tonight Smyth was always in the fray in front of Tommy. He is still taking draws as well and has come a long way defensively from when he broke into this league. Nobody loves the game more thamn Ryan and nobody loves the Oilers more than Ryan. I think the story about having his nose pressed against the galss when the oldtimers were practising for the Heritage Classic describes Ryan the best. There are too many players that have come through Edmonton that did not want to be hear and did not try.l IF you do not think that Ryan could have got way more elsewhere than think again. Please keep in mind that Marchant is getting 3 million.

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12-30-2003, 07:18 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspin
I am dead against trading Smyth. Do any of you guys play hockey? Yeah the neat flash in a pan hockey players are cute to watch once in a while but it is the guys that bust their butt that win the games. Smyth has done whatever this organization has ever asked him to do. His defense has come a long way and is on the top penalty killing unit now. For the past long while Smyth has worked harder than he has ever worked. I don't remember seeing Smyth being this physical. Just a couple of games back someone took a run at an Oiler player and Smyth came out the next shift and was hitting evrything in sight. Again tonight Smyth was always in the fray in front of Tommy. He is still taking draws as well and has come a long way defensively from when he broke into this league. Nobody loves the game more thamn Ryan and nobody loves the Oilers more than Ryan. I think the story about having his nose pressed against the galss when the oldtimers were practising for the Heritage Classic describes Ryan the best. There are too many players that have come through Edmonton that did not want to be hear and did not try.l IF you do not think that Ryan could have got way more elsewhere than think again. Please keep in mind that Marchant is getting 3 million.

Amen to that. I think you could have suggested Smyth was less than a quality player back when he scored 35 in his second season. However, he's become a much better player since then, and has a nice range of skills. Good passer, goes to traffic, his shot isn't alot but it's not awful either anymore.

Smyth is playing with Oates right now, which has been like having an albatross around his neck. Hopefully, Oates will pick it up and they'll start clicking.

In the meantime, Smyth continues to contribute in many other ways.

Just like he's always done.

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12-30-2003, 08:09 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Amen to that. I think you could have suggested Smyth was less than a quality player back when he scored 35 in his second season. However, he's become a much better player since then, and has a nice range of skills. Good passer, goes to traffic, his shot isn't alot but it's not awful either anymore.

Smyth is playing with Oates right now, which has been like having an albatross around his neck. Hopefully, Oates will pick it up and they'll start clicking.

In the meantime, Smyth continues to contribute in many other ways.

Just like he's always done.
Plus just before a couple of games ago Smyth was tied with York in goals. Funny how people think Smyth has played so dreadful points wise yet York was doing so great. Don't get me wrong I love York and have always liked him.

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12-30-2003, 08:19 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Rooks Oilers
I will NEVER support a Ryan Smyth trade! Why you ask?

1. The guy was thrown in at the center position and had to learn to adjust there. Call me stupid but I've noticed a better Ryan when playing his natural position at Left Wing.

2. MacT can't leave a line combo together if his damn life depended on it! My god I think I can recall Smytty playing on the fourth line with BG and Horcoff!

Sorry but I am a HUGE Smyth supporter, and I think you'll see a better Smytty in the next few games playing with Oates and Isbister (if MacT leaves them together)

Just my two cents worth

Rooks Oilers
First good post I've read on this topic. I'll rephrase that, intelligent and knowledgable post. Smyth is the heart and soul of this team, he is what Oilers hockey is all about. He's always working and trying and getting chances. Smyth needs a steady line and then he can get it going. The rest of these trade Smyth or trade Smith posts are about as stupid as I've ever read. I'll rephrase that, moronic.

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12-30-2003, 08:22 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
I remember about 1984 the Montreal Expos were supposed to win the NL pennant. They finished way back, because:

1. Al Oliver was too slow at first base and lost all his power,

2. Doug Flynn couldn't field at second and hit .180 with no power,

3. Shortstop was a revolving door with no one any good at all,

4. Tim Wallach at third let everything go through his legs,

5. Andre Dawson got hurt,

6. Tim Raines had cocaine in his pocket for "between pitch use",

7. The pitching staff fell apart due to injury/age.


You know what they did?

They traded Gary Carter! The one guy who was any good, dealt him away for a 90 pound centefielder, a 250 pound shortstop and a kid with a good arm.

Point being, we shouldn't trade Ryan Smyth. We should be putting together a package of draft picks, fine role players and prospects for a guy who can help, OR, just wait for draft day.

No on Smyth.
Second intelligent and knowledgable post on this topic.

And insight on the 84 'spos.

Again the rest of these trade Smyth or trade Smith posts are moronic.

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12-30-2003, 08:34 PM
  #34
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I'm so glad that we've got Kevin Lowe as a GM rather than any of the "trade Smith" posters from this forum. It's my opinion that Ryan Smyth is the heart and soul of this hockey team. Even when he isn't getting results he works hard and gives his all. He's as good a finisher in close as anyone in the league. He does seem as though he's lost a step since he broke his ankle a couple years ago, but still he's one of the Oilers most consistent producers and is always willing to pay the price in front of the oppositions net. There's not a better character guy on the team and he'd be making a lot more money if he was playing anywhere else. He's a guy that gives the management no grief at all and seems eager to sign a reasonably priced contract just so that he can get back into his Oilers jersey. If Lowe has to make trades to better this team I sure as heck hope it's not Smyth that gets traded.

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12-30-2003, 09:00 PM
  #35
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Speaking as an Oilers fan, one of the last things they should do is trade Ryan Smyth. He's their franchise player, the first guy thought of when the word "Oilers" are mentioned, and, he's a very good player. If it'd bring in a guy like Lecavalier, then it's not the worst of ideas. But he is a great forward who I, and most likely many of you all, couldn't bear to see in some other teams' uniform.

Speaking as a Ducks fan though, we'd gladly take him off your hands. We need the help, badly.

Seriously though, don't even think that trading Smitty is a good idea. Because, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it......

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12-30-2003, 10:47 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
I remember about 1984 the Montreal Expos were supposed to win the NL pennant. They finished way back, because:

1. Al Oliver was too slow at first base and lost all his power,

2. Doug Flynn couldn't field at second and hit .180 with no power,

3. Shortstop was a revolving door with no one any good at all,

4. Tim Wallach at third let everything go through his legs,

5. Andre Dawson got hurt,

6. Tim Raines had cocaine in his pocket for "between pitch use",

7. The pitching staff fell apart due to injury/age.


You know what they did?

They traded Gary Carter! The one guy who was any good, dealt him away for a 90 pound centefielder, a 250 pound shortstop and a kid with a good arm.

Point being, we shouldn't trade Ryan Smyth. We should be putting together a package of draft picks, fine role players and prospects for a guy who can help, OR, just wait for draft day.

No on Smyth.

Spoken like a true Gary Carter fan. Carter wasn't the best player on those teams because that tag belonged to either Dawson or Raines. Secondly,Carter was dealt because he wanted out and Gary was always a "me first" player with the Expos. Also,that 250 pound shortstop in Hubie Brooks was probably the Expos best clutch player,next to Raines,for the next 3 or 4 years.

So,all things considered that trade wasn't all that bad for the Expos. The biggest difference between that trade and the Oil trading Smyth is that the Expos were forced into trading Carter the Oilers would be making a choice in trading Smyth.

IMO,moving Smyth for a good young talent who could help now wouldn't be a bad idea.

PS - Raines' cocaine habit was like 3 years before Carter was traded so it wasn't even an issue and Oliver was gone before Carter was moved as well.

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12-30-2003, 11:25 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuhr
So,all things considered that trade wasn't all that bad for the Expos. The biggest difference between that trade and the Oil trading Smyth is that the Expos were forced into trading Carter the Oilers would be making a choice in trading Smyth.

IMO,moving Smyth for a good young talent who could help now wouldn't be a bad idea.

I agree my proposal was Smyth, Smith and Laraque for Spezza and Rachunek.

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12-30-2003, 11:31 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerdynasty
First good post I've read on this topic. I'll rephrase that, intelligent and knowledgable post. Smyth is the heart and soul of this team, he is what Oilers hockey is all about. He's always working and trying and getting chances. Smyth needs a steady line and then he can get it going. The rest of these trade Smyth or trade Smith posts are about as stupid as I've ever read. I'll rephrase that, moronic.
Hey, you don't have to keep rephrasing... you have a button called Backspace.

Anyways, Smyth really impressed me for the first time this season. He played really well against Minnesota. But... if he's our highest paid player, he should be producing like every other team's highest paid player(I know there are exceptions). It should be Smyth leading in goals and assists, not York. Sure, he loves the game and tries very hard every shift but so do a lot of players on the team.

I'm not sure what the exact situation is with Smith but from my understanding, it's a lot like Marchant's. If we don't trade Smith before the trade deadline, he might sign a contract with another team. Unless Smith signs a contract extentsion with the Oilers, I say we should trade him.

Btw, I think Smyth is a very good players and I would hate losing him but if we don't find anyone who can compliment Smyth's attributes, trade him. I'd also hate losing Smith (maybe our best defender?), but that's the reality of small market teams. That's why I hate greedy ******* NHL players like Marchant...

Oh ya, you don't have to insult us to get your point across, what are you... a Flames fan!?

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12-31-2003, 04:46 AM
  #39
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I agree with a few of the posts on this thread ..... on bothe sides of the trade Smyth and Smith debate.

Ryan Smyth has been the heart and soul of this club. His hard work and excellent corner work has generated a lot of offensive chances that have helped Weight and Comrie look better than they actually are. However, I wonder if the time to trade Ryan has come.

Lets face it, the Oil survives on trading players they help get established in the league. They trade them for younger players and picks in order to "save money" and in order to "develop a pool of prospects" that might be developed into a "contending team" when circumstances allow.
Quite bluntly, the oilers must at some point trade Smytty for younger guy(s). They simply cannot let a player as tradeable as Smytty go into retirement without getting something for him. Add to this fact the factor of Smyttys style of play often leads to a player leaving the game in their late twenty's and early thirties due to injury, and you may have a very strong arguement for trading him now while his value is high and undimminished by the shadow of injury.
Besides, if the Oilers want to get a young scoring centre/winger to round out their stable of talented young prospects and players they have to give up some "quality" to get that young talent.
Add Jason Smith to the same trade for simmilar reasons (esp. money).
Why not make such a trade now? Interest in Smyth from contenders would be high, and trading him cannot dimminish our chances at a playoff spot .... our chance is at or near zero percent anyway, it cannot get any smaller


Last edited by Smaug: 12-31-2003 at 05:14 AM.
 
Old
12-31-2003, 07:26 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongDon
Hey, you don't have to keep rephrasing... you have a button called Backspace.

Anyways, Smyth really impressed me for the first time this season. He played really well against Minnesota. But... if he's our highest paid player, he should be producing like every other team's highest paid player(I know there are exceptions). It should be Smyth leading in goals and assists, not York. Sure, he loves the game and tries very hard every shift but so do a lot of players on the team.

I'm not sure what the exact situation is with Smith but from my understanding, it's a lot like Marchant's. If we don't trade Smith before the trade deadline, he might sign a contract with another team. Unless Smith signs a contract extentsion with the Oilers, I say we should trade him.

Btw, I think Smyth is a very good players and I would hate losing him but if we don't find anyone who can compliment Smyth's attributes, trade him. I'd also hate losing Smith (maybe our best defender?), but that's the reality of small market teams. That's why I hate greedy ******* NHL players like Marchant...

Oh ya, you don't have to insult us to get your point across, what are you... a Flames fan!?

I seem to agree....the "moronic" comment is a bit uncalled for in this thread. Most Oiler fans would agree that Smyth is and has been a great player for this organization. I think the decision to trade Ryan Smyth will be considered with great debate by the powers to be within the Oilers organization. If Lowe's plan is to make the Oiler's a post CBA contender, then I think using an asset like Smyth to obtain an impact first line player is a good idea. Packaging Smyth in a deal for prospects or picks would be a step in the wrong directon. As much as I have enjoyed watching Smyth for the last several years, I would welcome a trade that brought someone like Lecavalier to Edmonton. It could also be argued that a change in scenery might be a good thing for Ryan Smyth.

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01-01-2004, 07:42 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Chayos1
I agree my proposal was Smyth, Smith and Laraque for Spezza and Rachunek.

This on the surface isn't a bad deal for either team and is actually pretty fair. The only problem with this deal is the Sens won't give up Spezza in this sort of deal.

Smith is a big upgrade for the Sens,IMO, on their D and a back end that would include Smith,Chara,Phillips and Redden as the top 4 would be as solid as any teams top 4 if we are considering what they'd bring at both ends of the ice. Smyth would be great in Ottawa and i think he'd score a bucket of goals for that team because all he'd have to worry about would be going to the net and picking up garbage. As for George,he'd be window dressing in this deal.

I really don't think Rachunek is as good as everyone makes him out to be and in all honesty i'd rather Phillips. Again,i don't see the Sens trading Phillips but i think they would move Rachunek and he would work well in the Oil system.

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01-02-2004, 11:21 AM
  #42
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I really thought they were going to trade Moreau or Smyth this past summer when both were headed into contract talks. With Torres and Isbister coming here at the trade deadline it just seemed natural that one of them was gone. And then they both signed contracts that said they wanted to stay here. Now it is more difficult because if management trades them after they signed 'oiler contracts' when will be the next time that a player is willing to compromise on market value at contract time. That said Smyth has really suffered from playing out of position for the Oil all these years and I am referring to having to play first line minutes on lw instead of 2nd line on lw which is his natural position. I agree with whoever wrote that playing with Oates hasn't helped as Adam still hasn't got his game going but York and Dvorak have certainly benefitted from being "bumped back" down to the second line where they do not have to fight off the other teams number 1 checking line every night now that teams are focussing on Smyth, Oates and Isbister as the more dangerous of the two. And I love York too but he and Dvorak disappeared off the scoring sheet for a reason. They were the most dangerous line we had so teams started to target them. Rather than talking about trading Smyth maybe we should be a little more patient and see if Oates can get his game back so that we have the 2 scoring lines that every successful team in this league needs and that that little twirp Comrie took away from us.

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01-02-2004, 01:47 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by The Rage
If that combo gives us Lecavalier, I'm all for it.

Didn't even think about that one. I'd hate to give up Jason Smith since he's playing so well this season. I don't care if he ends up elsewhere at season's end - he's one of our better d-men right now and we can't afford to lose him.

Throw in an extra forward or two. Get Lecavalier plus a draft pick for Smyth and atleast one other forward. I do that trade yesturday. KLowe, for that matter, sits around and ponders it ala Glen Sather and waits until #4 is in Philly.

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01-02-2004, 01:48 PM
  #44
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I would love a trade to Tampa Bay!

sincerely,
Mrs Smyth

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01-02-2004, 01:56 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
Speaking as an Oilers fan, one of the last things they should do is trade Ryan Smyth. He's their franchise player, the first guy thought of when the word "Oilers" are mentioned, and, he's a very good player. If it'd bring in a guy like Lecavalier, then it's not the worst of ideas. But he is a great forward who I, and most likely many of you all, couldn't bear to see in some other teams' uniform.

Speaking as a Ducks fan though, we'd gladly take him off your hands. We need the help, badly.

Seriously though, don't even think that trading Smitty is a good idea. Because, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it......
As long as we are talking "trade" and not "dump" this might not be a bad idea. We have the wingers. We have guys on the left that given a shot should be able to produce. KLowe waggered his rep on two of them - Torres and Isbister.

We have been amiss at centre for a long time. Even without Oates we should have decent depth if we just had someone of impact playing there.

Franchise players hoist teams on their shoulders and will wins through a scoring streak. They make chemistry with anyone on the ice and bringing them out of their slumps. They win playoff series single handed.

Smyth, as good as he's been, hasn't done these things. If he was cheaper these knocks would ring hollow because we could appreciate all that he does do right. But come next year he's our highest paid player. And when his contract is done we'll be in a new CBA which many boast will feature a UFA age of 27, 28. He'll be 29. Lecavalier will be 25.

Smyth is above petty criticism but he's not invincible. He's paid to score and he hasn't done that this year with the frequency "franchise players" are supposed to.

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01-02-2004, 07:43 PM
  #46
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Smyth

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanmoreMike
As long as we are talking "trade" and not "dump" this might not be a bad idea. We have the wingers. We have guys on the left that given a shot should be able to produce. KLowe waggered his rep on two of them - Torres and Isbister.

We have been amiss at centre for a long time. Even without Oates we should have decent depth if we just had someone of impact playing there.

Franchise players hoist teams on their shoulders and will wins through a scoring streak. They make chemistry with anyone on the ice and bringing them out of their slumps. They win playoff series single handed.

Smyth, as good as he's been, hasn't done these things. If he was cheaper these knocks would ring hollow because we could appreciate all that he does do right. But come next year he's our highest paid player. And when his contract is done we'll be in a new CBA which many boast will feature a UFA age of 27, 28. He'll be 29. Lecavalier will be 25.

Smyth is above petty criticism but he's not invincible. He's paid to score and he hasn't done that this year with the frequency "franchise players" are supposed to.
What do you mean Smyth does not do these things? He has done everything this organization has asked of him. He played centre when they needed a centre. He is on the PK and PP. He is leading by a lot in shots on goal for this team and most importantly he leads by example in the effort he puts out and the heart he puts into a game.

and I am sick and tired of you bringing up his huge salary. Smyth is the 105th highest paid player in the NHL. Do you not think he could have not got way more if he wanted to elsewhere? Look at all the players ahead of him. He comes at a bargain comapred to some of the duds ahead of him. He is not making 8 million dollars like everyone else's highest paid players so drop the salary thing since he is signed here for another two years and will forsurely drop down the list of higest paid players to maybe 150 by the end of his contract here.


Last edited by aspin: 01-02-2004 at 08:20 PM.
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01-04-2004, 12:59 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by aspin
What do you mean Smyth does not do these things? He has done everything this organization has asked of him. He played centre when they needed a centre. He is on the PK and PP. He is leading by a lot in shots on goal for this team and most importantly he leads by example in the effort he puts out and the heart he puts into a game.

and I am sick and tired of you bringing up his huge salary. Smyth is the 105th highest paid player in the NHL. Do you not think he could have not got way more if he wanted to elsewhere? Look at all the players ahead of him. He comes at a bargain comapred to some of the duds ahead of him. He is not making 8 million dollars like everyone else's highest paid players so drop the salary thing since he is signed here for another two years and will forsurely drop down the list of higest paid players to maybe 150 by the end of his contract here.
A couple of things stand out here. I don't recall harping on Smyth's salary constantly on this board. This is the first time I brought it up and it was in the context of the thread - should we trade Smyth.

My point is that he is a good player but if the opportunity came to land an impact performer like Lecavalier, I'm sorry, but we have to consider that. We already have Isbister, Torres, Chimera, Moreau on the left side already. The ingredients that Smyth brings to the table could be subsituted to some degree by one of these guys.

If we had a team of skilled performers like Lecavalier we would need Smyth. Instead we have a team of Smyths without a Lecavalier.

As good as Smyth is, I stand by my comment that he has yet to win a playoff series for us. CuJo did a couple of times. Heck, Guerin has had a better single playoff series in his three playoffs with the Oilers than Smyth ever has (6 goals for Guerin - if you were wondering).

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