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Old
07-04-2007, 09:59 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Gagne-Briere-Lupul
Hartnell-Carter-Upshall
Kapanen-Richards-Knuble
Eager-Umberger-TBD
Thanks a lot for the holiday Bubble Burster That's not really that strong at all down the middle.

Agreed TOTALLY with your later comment - a check check checking centericeman who wins faceoffs. I count that as the Flyers' most glaring hole right now.

Lastly, I think Umberger comes a'chargin' back this year. I don't know if he does it for the Flyers, I think they need him as a chip with Gauthier to land that center or upgrade to a puck-carrying defenseman. But there have been stretches when he has outplayed Mike Richards, loooooooong stretches.

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07-04-2007, 10:06 AM
  #27
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I like Hartnell on the 1st line,,

If we got Boogard, and played him with Eager and Downie, Those 2 would be out of control with the Boogie man to back them up. I think that is exactly what we would need to play the Rags and Pens. I really hope Downie makes the team to play with Eager.

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07-04-2007, 10:09 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
I like Hartnell on the 1st line,,

If we got Boogard, and played him with Eager and Downie, Those 2 would be out of control with the Boogie man to back them up. I think that is exactly what we would need to play the Rags and Pens. I really hope Downie makes the team to play with Eager.
Hartnell could probably work on the 1st line as well, but I think he's perfect for Carter... and the Briere to Lupul combination makes a tone of sense as well... which also frees up Richards to not be babysitting Lupul if he struggles a bit out of the gate and have more responsible linemates to help him out defensively, plus help him have some consistency offensively on the line with Knuble.

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07-04-2007, 10:10 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Thanks a lot for the holiday Bubble Burster That's not really that strong at all down the middle.

Agreed TOTALLY with your later comment - a check check checking centericeman who wins faceoffs. I count that as the Flyers' most glaring hole right now.

Lastly, I think Umberger comes a'chargin' back this year. I don't know if he does it for the Flyers, I think they need him as a chip with Gauthier to land that center or upgrade to a puck-carrying defenseman. But there have been stretches when he has outplayed Mike Richards, loooooooong stretches.
not sure i'd go with "not that strong down the middle" just because it's potentially explosive down the middle in the top 3. Carter has the ability to pot 35+ goals in this league with that wrister, and Richards can be a very plus offensive third line center. 4th line is clearly not ideal with Umberger there, but that might be life for the moment.

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07-04-2007, 10:13 AM
  #30
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umberger cannot center the 4th. please dont let that happen. he couldnt find the defensive zone with a 4-sided mirror, and the 4th line is hardly going to be an offensive dynamo. i dont want eager and whoever else lands on that line to have to cover for umberger. this is the nedved experiment all over again.

hope this means umberger is traded. i think he has potential, but we dont have room for him at this point.

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07-04-2007, 10:23 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
umberger cannot center the 4th. please dont let that happen. he couldnt find the defensive zone with a 4-sided mirror, and the 4th line is hardly going to be an offensive dynamo. i dont want eager and whoever else lands on that line to have to cover for umberger. this is the nedved experiment all over again.

hope this means umberger is traded. i think he has potential, but we dont have room for him at this point.
4th line usually finds themselves against the other 4th line, so I wouldn't worry too much about them being scored on.

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07-04-2007, 10:48 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Gagne-Briere-Lupul
Hartnell-Carter-Upshall
Kapanen-Richards-Knuble
Eager-Umberger-TBD
I don't see how Stevens could screw up the lines, but if the Flyers struggle Jesters got my vote to replace him.

When I found out about Briere and the trade, those are the exact lines I came up with.

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Old
07-04-2007, 10:49 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Shoeny View Post
I don't see how Stevens could screw up the lines, but if the Flyers struggle Jesters got my vote to replace him.

When I found out about Briere and the trade, those are the exact lines I came up with.
would certainly be a nice raise from lowly PhD student... something to consider.

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07-04-2007, 10:51 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
4th line usually finds themselves against the other 4th line, so I wouldn't worry too much about them being scored on.
i always kinda interpreted the 4th line as more of an energy line, hitting people, pissing the other team off, etc. is umberger that kind of player? seems kinda lack luster to me.

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Old
07-04-2007, 10:53 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
i always kinda interpreted the 4th line as more of an energy line, hitting people, pissing the other team off, etc. is umberger that kind of player? seems kinda lack luster to me.
No, quite frankly, he's not that kind of player. But what can you do? He's the only other centre on the roster right now. If you surround him with Eager and perhaps Downie, then you've got two superpests that can fight surrounding him, and they may end up being a secret scoring weapon.

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07-04-2007, 11:02 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
No, quite frankly, he's not that kind of player. But what can you do? He's the only other centre on the roster right now. If you surround him with Eager and perhaps Downie, then you've got two superpests that can fight surrounding him, and they may end up being a secret scoring weapon.
Or maybe they even rub off on him a bit. As someone said about ten posts up though, if Boogaard does come true, his ability to fight and let Eager and eventually Downie run amok has me giddy. The terror those two could cause would be unreal.

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Old
07-04-2007, 11:15 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
they've ruined Umberger... i'd like them to trade him somewhere he can actually get into a spot and just play. i'm starting to feel really bad for him as far as his career goes with all of the movement and uncertainty they've put into it at this point.

guy has the ability to contribute as a scoring winger on a 2nd or 3rd line in this league, just needs to get a spot and play.

if they're going to put a young guy at center on the 4th line, i think i'd rather they just give Potulny the chance to play. Downie has some skill, of course, and Eager is competent when the puck comes to him, so it wouldn't be a complete waste. in 8-10 minutes a night that would be an entertaining line.
So RJ is out it appears here

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Old
07-04-2007, 11:44 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SharksDownUnder View Post
So RJ is out it appears here
apparently he's now a center, so maybe not. i think they should move him because they jerked him around ALL of last season... and now they're putting him down on the 4th line as a center based on interpreting a Holmgren quote.

i wouldn't jump to "he's out" just yet. however, he's definitely tradeable at this point... and it would probably be in his best interest if he was traded.

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Old
07-04-2007, 12:01 PM
  #39
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Well someone needs to do it. Here is the eventual line-up after injuries and players not working out.

Upshall - Briere - Knuble
Poltuny - Carter - Ruzika
Kappanen - Richards - Eager
Cote - Umberger - Downie

Timonen - Jones
Picard - Coburn
Parent - Hatcher

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Old
07-04-2007, 12:15 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
Well someone needs to do it. Here is the eventual line-up after injuries and players not working out.

Upshall - Briere - Knuble
Poltuny - Carter - Ruzika
Kappanen - Richards - Eager
Cote - Umberger - Downie

Timonen - Jones
Picard - Coburn
Parent - Hatcher
What the...

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Old
07-04-2007, 12:34 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
Well someone needs to do it. Here is the eventual line-up after injuries and players not working out.

Upshall - Briere - Knuble
Poltuny - Carter - Ruzika
Kappanen - Richards - Eager
Cote - Umberger - Downie

Timonen - Jones
Picard - Coburn
Parent - Hatcher
ummm Gagne and Hartnell??

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Old
07-04-2007, 12:37 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
we need to make room for some skill players?

Gagne - skill player
Briere - skill player
Knuble - grinder, but he's not without skill.
Hartnell - expecting 25+ goals from him
Carter - skill player
Upshall - hustler with skill
Lupul - that's all he is.

we don't need skill players on this roster... we need some role players who will work from the bottom 6 and go from there.
Just because you can score doesn't make you a "skill" player...I think the Hartnells, Upshall and Knuble's need players like Briere, Ruzicka and Forsberg etc...I think the roles for players like Kapanen, Richards and Eager etc will be clearer this season...

I already mentioned Lupul...

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Old
07-04-2007, 12:40 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by jfc64 View Post
Just because you can score doesn't make you a "skill" player...I think the Hartnells, Upshall and Knuble's need players like Briere, Ruzicka and Forsberg etc...I think the roles for players like Kapanen, Richards and Eager etc will be clearer this season...

I already mentioned Lupul...
okay, what you should say is that we need "playmakers." because there's plenty of skill potential on this roster as it is today... we're sorely lacking a few role players, in fact.

Ruzicka isn't going to make it with this club... the next young kid who is going to have a chance as far as being a 'playmaker' is Giroux, IMO.

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07-04-2007, 12:44 PM
  #44
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My thoughts on the original post by Jester and subsequent discussion

Gagne Briere Lupul - I am fine with giving this line a shot from the beginning, as it might get the most out of Lupul. I only have one concern with it, and that is there is really no one to do the dirty work there. Not that he cant do it, but I would just hate to see Gagne have to be the one to take a beating and dig the puck out when in the corners. Lupul cant do it, and Briere is small.

Hartnell Carter Upshall - Perfectly fine with this line, unless something happens that makes us change it.

Kapanen Richards Knuble - I mentioned a while ago that I would like Knuble on here. Richards gets a lot of ice time as it is, so I dont think of it as a demotion. Plus, Richards and Knuble played very well together two years ago before Knuble was put with Forsberg and Gagne. I much rather put Kapanen on the 4th line at this point, and be the primary penalty killer, but it seems like they dont want to split up him and Richards.

Eager Umberger ??? - Unless there is an enforcer, Eager unfortunatey serves that role again, which none of us want. If they do, Umberger is a complete waste here. If they cannot find him a spot on the 2nd or 3rd line wing, move him for his sake. I still think this guy will score 25-30 goals, but it wont be here, especially with adding Lupul.

Here is my preference, if the chemistry worked.
Gagne Briere Upshall
Hartnell Carter Lupul
Knuble Richards Umberger (or switch wings as they can each play both)
Eager Potulny Kapanen

If they move Umberger, bring up Downie and move Kapanen up to that line. Potulny and Downie seem to complement each other in their skill (one is a finisher and one is a passer so I wouldnt mind seeing a young 4th line. Potulny produced with slop last year, and I think he can do so again, and has enough two way skill. (I would love to see a Potulny Richards Knuble line, but doubt it) It has been done many times in the past, on many successful teams. Plus, if Richards is being groomed to be the shut down guy, do we really need a defensive 4th line??

EDIT: We cant forget, cause I saw mention of it earlier...Knuble, Kapanen, Umberger, Upshall and Hartnell all can play either wing equally effectively. And the problem is Lupul doesnt seem to fit anywhere if he doesnt work with Briere. DAMN I STILL DONT LIKE THAT TRADE. I rather have had Torres.


Last edited by mikedifr: 07-04-2007 at 12:53 PM.
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07-04-2007, 12:56 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
My thoughts on the original post by Jester and subsequent discussion

Gagne Briere Lupul - I am fine with giving this line a shot from the beginning, as it might get the most out of Lupul. I only have one concern with it, and that is there is really no one to do the dirty work there. Not that he cant do it, but I would just hate to see Gagne have to be the one to take a beating and dig the puck out when in the corners. Lupul cant do it, and Briere is small.

Hartnell Carter Upshall - Perfectly fine with this line, unless something happens that makes us change it.

Kapanen Richards Knuble - I mentioned a while ago that I would like Knuble on here. Richards gets a lot of ice time as it is, so I dont think of it as a demotion. Plus, Richards and Knuble played very well together two years ago before Knuble was put with Forsberg and Gagne. I much rather put Kapanen on the 4th line at this point, and be the primary penalty killer, but it seems like they dont want to split up him and Richards.

Eager Umberger ??? - Unless there is an enforcer, Eager unfortunatey serves that role again, which none of us want. If they do, Umberger is a complete waste here. If they cannot find him a spot on the 2nd or 3rd line wing, move him for his sake. I still think this guy will score 25-30 goals, but it wont be here, especially with adding Lupul.

Here is my preference, if the chemistry worked.
Gagne Briere Upshall
Hartnell Carter Lupul
Knuble Richards Umberger (or switch wings as they can each play both)
Eager Potulny Kapanen

If they move Umberger, bring up Downie and move Kapanen up to that line. Potulny and Downie seem to complement each other in their skill (one is a finisher and one is a passer so I wouldnt mind seeing a young 4th line. Potulny produced with slop last year, and I think he can do so again, and has enough two way skill. (I would love to see a Potulny Richards Knuble line, but doubt it) It has been done many times in the past, on many successful teams. Plus, if Richards is being groomed to be the shut down guy, do we really need a defensive 4th line??

EDIT: We cant forget, cause I saw mention of it earlier...Knuble, Kapanen, Umberger, Upshall and Hartnell all can play either wing equally effectively. And the problem is Lupul doesnt seem to fit anywhere if he doesnt work with Briere. DAMN I STILL DONT LIKE THAT TRADE. I rather have had Torres.

Ive always thought of potulny as more of a shooter than a passer.

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07-04-2007, 01:10 PM
  #46
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Quote:
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they've ruined Umberger... i'd like them to trade him somewhere he can actually get into a spot and just play. i'm starting to feel really bad for him as far as his career goes with all of the movement and uncertainty they've put into it at this point.

guy has the ability to contribute as a scoring winger on a 2nd or 3rd line in this league, just needs to get a spot and play.

if they're going to put a young guy at center on the 4th line, i think i'd rather they just give Potulny the chance to play. Downie has some skill, of course, and Eager is competent when the puck comes to him, so it wouldn't be a complete waste. in 8-10 minutes a night that would be an entertaining line.
do you think they wait until they get a look at Downie before they deal Umberger? If Downie needs to spend sometime in the AHL, i think they may hold onto Umberger.
We have talked about this before, during the season and now, on how they have ruined Umberger. He does not belong on the 4th line. The kid deserves a shot to play every night with better minutes. not 6-8 minutes a night on the 4th line.

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07-04-2007, 01:11 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Here is my preference, if the chemistry worked.
Gagne Briere Upshall
Hartnell Carter Lupul
Knuble Richards Umberger (or switch wings as they can each play both)
Eager Potulny Kapanen
Carter and Lupul strike me as oil and water... a shooter with a shoot-first center might get ugly.

I'd rather not have Lupul on the top line as well, I just think it makes the most sense. Part of the thought, as far as the mucking, is that the line won't be involved in all that much mucking. Sure, it's going to happen some during the course of play, but I would expect that line to maintain much more of a movement offense than anything we've seen from a Flyer first line in a while... A lot less work below the goalline and a lot more work from the hash in... thus Lupul might work perfectly well w/out having to worry about grinding it out (which is what Forsberg/Knuble used to do so well together).

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07-04-2007, 01:12 PM
  #48
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do you think they wait until they get a look at Downie before they deal Umberger? If Downie needs to spend sometime in the AHL, i think they may hold onto Umberger.
We have talked about this before, during the season and now, on how they have ruined Umberger. He does not belong on the 4th line. The kid deserves a shot to play every night with better minutes. not 6-8 minutes a night on the 4th line.
maybe... Umberger will have the most value now... that's the only reason i'd move him in a deal at this point. if you wait until camp, then rosters have a lot less flexibility due to the cap.

who knows what happens, but clearly Umberger isn't a high priority for the organization in terms of ice-time at this point.

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07-04-2007, 01:12 PM
  #49
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Ive always thought of potulny as more of a shooter than a passer.
He is...Mike is saying Downie as a passer would complement Potulny.

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07-04-2007, 01:27 PM
  #50
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maybe... Umberger will have the most value now... that's the only reason i'd move him in a deal at this point. if you wait until camp, then rosters have a lot less flexibility due to the cap.
thats a good point. I really didnt think of that

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