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Where would we be without the Lowe trades?

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Old
12-30-2003, 07:56 PM
  #1
Mr Sakich
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Where would we be without the Lowe trades?

Brewer, York, Devo, Izzy, and Salo are our team right now. I am so glad that we don't have a cautious or a bad GM. Lowe inherited a ship that was headed down. A few high price talents and lots of average guys.

Look at our team now and be thankfull that Lowe is our GM. We could have had a guy who was just as highly touted at the time - Buttons.

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12-30-2003, 08:06 PM
  #2
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Yeah it is a damn good thing he isn't afraid to pull the trigger. I don't see why other team fans hate the guy so much. Now, I think he needs to pull the trigger again.

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12-30-2003, 08:18 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
Brewer, York, Devo, Izzy, and Salo are our team right now. I am so glad that we don't have a cautious or a bad GM. Lowe inherited a ship that was headed down. A few high price talents and lots of average guys.

Look at our team now and be thankfull that Lowe is our GM. We could have had a guy who was just as highly touted at the time - Buttons.
Oh yes. Your GM is SO great he has his team in 13th place out of 15 teams. And for the last time, I know it is difficult for you undereducated Edmontonians, it is BUTTON not BUTTONS.

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12-30-2003, 08:48 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejean31
Oh yes. Your GM is SO great he has his team in 13th place out of 15 teams. And for the last time, I know it is difficult for you undereducated Edmontonians, it is BUTTON not BUTTONS.
And where was your team for the last seven years?

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Old
12-30-2003, 09:06 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejean31
Oh yes. Your GM is SO great he has his team in 13th place out of 15 teams. And for the last time, I know it is difficult for you undereducated Edmontonians, it is BUTTON not BUTTONS.
Ya know...I used to hate the Flames. Thats back in the 80's when either you liked the Oilers or the Flames. Now I really hate the Leafs and the Canucks...why? The fans. Cannot stand the arrogance of either the Leaf fans or the Canuck fans. Its funny though...you'd think that the Flame fans would have a slice of humble pie...they haven't won a playoff series since '89. Thats 15 years. I think its been 7 since they made the playoffs?? Anyway, my point is you Flame fans have no reason for the arrogance. You have sucked for 15 years. I'm truly glad that you have played well this year, and it looks like you may make the playoffs for the first time in a while. But run your mouths the way you guys do and not make the playoffs...LMAO...its too funny just thinking about it. You guys will come back to earth, you aren't that good.

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12-30-2003, 09:32 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbam99
Ya know...I used to hate the Flames. Thats back in the 80's when either you liked the Oilers or the Flames. Now I really hate the Leafs and the Canucks...why? The fans. Cannot stand the arrogance of either the Leaf fans or the Canuck fans. Its funny though...you'd think that the Flame fans would have a slice of humble pie...they haven't won a playoff series since '89. Thats 15 years. I think its been 7 since they made the playoffs?? Anyway, my point is you Flame fans have no reason for the arrogance. You have sucked for 15 years. I'm truly glad that you have played well this year, and it looks like you may make the playoffs for the first time in a while. But run your mouths the way you guys do and not make the playoffs...LMAO...its too funny just thinking about it. You guys will come back to earth, you aren't that good.
Please ignore him, he doesn't speak for all Flame fans (and its actually 6 seasons of missing ). I actually don't think Button was terrible (believe me, he coulda been Al Coates) He'll do better if he gets another shot in the league, maybe as a player personal director or assistant GM for a bit first...Gilbert on the other hand

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12-30-2003, 09:33 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbam99
Ya know...I used to hate the Flames. Thats back in the 80's when either you liked the Oilers or the Flames. Now I really hate the Leafs and the Canucks...why? The fans. Cannot stand the arrogance of either the Leaf fans or the Canuck fans. Its funny though...you'd think that the Flame fans would have a slice of humble pie...they haven't won a playoff series since '89. Thats 15 years. I think its been 7 since they made the playoffs?? Anyway, my point is you Flame fans have no reason for the arrogance. You have sucked for 15 years. I'm truly glad that you have played well this year, and it looks like you may make the playoffs for the first time in a while. But run your mouths the way you guys do and not make the playoffs...LMAO...its too funny just thinking about it. You guys will come back to earth, you aren't that good.
Easy, it's one fan. There not all that bad, most of them are actually pretty decent. Don't let this one jackass make a fool of all Flames fans. I've been talking to lots of Flames fans lately and sure, they all hope the run continues, but none would be surprised if it stopped. And they mostly know about the Oilers and respect them. I know it's easy to take offense to such an ignorant, arrogant comment, but try to just take guys like him with a grain of salt, they are the minority, and why they are on our board, not their own.

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Old
12-30-2003, 09:33 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejean31
Oh yes. Your GM is SO great he has his team in 13th place out of 15 teams. And for the last time, I know it is difficult for you undereducated Edmontonians, it is BUTTON not BUTTONS.
The Oilers are 13th out of 15 teams because Lowe had to rebuild the mess he inherited. Also, he couldn't rebuild in the conventional sense because there would be an unproar. On top of that, the Oilers can't play the trap in this town. He's been handcuffed, to say the least. His individual moves (trades, drafting) have been good. The entire situation just hasn't come together. By the way, the last three seasons combined, the Oilers have had the 10th best record in the NHL. Judge Lowe by his overall track record, instead of judging him when the team is in a funk. Undereducated Edmontonians? Where do you flamers come up with this stuff? Of course we know Button's real name. What was said earlier was either a typo or a joke. You shouldn't be calling others undereducated, considering the grammar mistakes in your own post. For example, the conjuction "and" joins two clauses; it is not a transitional expression that can start a sentence. People in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

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12-30-2003, 09:34 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruezer
Please ignore him, he doesn't speak for all Flame fans (and its actually 6 seasons of missing ). I actually don't think Button was terrible (believe me, he coulda been Al Coates) He'll do better if he gets another shot in the league, maybe as a player personal director or assistant GM for a bit first...Gilbert on the other hand
Beat me to it.

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12-30-2003, 09:37 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Easy, it's one fan. There not all that bad, most of them are actually pretty decent. Don't let this one jackass make a fool of all Flames fans. I've been talking to lots of Flames fans lately and sure, they all hope the run continues, but none would be surprised if it stopped. And they mostly know about the Oilers and respect them. I know it's easy to take offense to such an ignorant, arrogant comment, but try to just take guys like him with a grain of salt, they are the minority, and why they are on our board, not their own.
It's good to see there are rational Flames fans like you and kruezer. I hate the ridiculous flame wars that sometimes erupt on these boards. Like Garfield calling our city "less clean" than Calgary. Wtf does that mean? This a hockey board, not a sanitation department board. I guess Garfield has thoroughly searched both cities for cleanliness. Anyways, good luck on the season.

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12-30-2003, 09:43 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rage
It's good to see there are rational Flames fans like you and kruezer. I hate the ridiculous flame wars that sometimes erupt on these boards. Like Garfield calling our city "less clean" than Calgary. Wtf does that mean? This a hockey board, not a sanitation department board. I guess Garfield has thoroughly searched both cities for cleanliness. Anyways, good luck on the season.
I'm no Flames fan, just defending them. Some aren't all there, while some know there stuff, just like any other cities fans.

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Old
12-30-2003, 10:21 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rage
The Oilers are 13th out of 15 teams because Lowe had to rebuild the mess he inherited. Also, he couldn't rebuild in the conventional sense because there would be an unproar. On top of that, the Oilers can't play the trap in this town. He's been handcuffed, to say the least. His individual moves (trades, drafting) have been good. The entire situation just hasn't come together. By the way, the last three seasons combined, the Oilers have had the 10th best record in the NHL. Judge Lowe by his overall track record, instead of judging him when the team is in a funk. Undereducated Edmontonians? Where do you flamers come up with this stuff? Of course we know Button's real name. What was said earlier was either a typo or a joke. You shouldn't be calling others undereducated, considering the grammar mistakes in your own post. For example, the conjuction "and" joins two clauses; it is not a transitional expression that can start a sentence. People in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.
Give me more excuses. Please.

Point for point:

- He couldn't rebuild the Oilers in a conventional sense because there would be an uproad

Uproar over what? A better team? What he hell has he been doing? Is this an 'unconventional' rebuild? If if is, what's unconventional about it? And what would this 'conventional' rebuild cause that isn't already happening right now?

- The Oilers can't play the trap in this town

Baloney. The Devils play the trap, and they aren't completely boring (not as nearly as some say). The Wild, the Canes - these teams are dreadfully boring. The trap does not mean boredom. Do you find the Ottawa Senators boring? The Detroit Red Wings? These two play the trap, or versions of it, that are highly defense-first coaching schemes, yet both have one of the best power plays and goals for in the league. The Oilers CAN play the trap in this town. They just don't.

- His individual moves have been good.

Very, very debatable.

- The last three seasons, the Oilers have had the 10th best record in the NHL

Funny, weren't those the teams loaded with stuff from Sather's crew? If Lowe is still 'digging up' the relics of the Sather days (which would be exceedingly slow - consider that Brian Burke (and Mike Keenan I guess), for example, was able to turn the Canucks franchise around after only 2 years. Kevin Lowe is coming into his 4th season as GM is he not? How long does it take?

---------

Sorry if I come off too harsh here, but posts like this make me gag. They remind of the same speel that I heard in Calgary about Button. 'Oh, but this time it's different!'. Why? Because a Hall of Fame defenseman tries to run a franchise? The Oilers have gone from a good, top 10 team in the league 5 years ago to a bubble team or worse now. Now if Kevin Lowe were following the traditional 5-year plan, we would expect to see a pretty big upswing next season, and yes, it could happen. However, you look at the personel currently on the club, and you look at the pipeline.. what comes to mind? Boy, there sure isn't a lot of top flight players is there? Where are the Gaborik's that most other rebuilding teams have gotten by now? Think of recent 'other' rebuilding teams', almost every successful one had one key superstar, or more. The Canucks had Naslund, the Kings had Palffy, the Sens had Yashin (now Hossa), the Leafs had Sundin (talking about their emergence from the cold dead-of-night that was the mid 90's. Do you see Hemsky as being that kind of talent? And if so, don't you think he is 'behind' the age curve at the moment? If Lowe feels that Hemsky is going to be 'the guy' to lead the Oilers back to respectability, it's going to take about 3 more years at least, because the kid is.. well, still a kid!

The Oilers look like a muddled mix of things that Lowe have tried to do, but failed in doing. Flip-flopping from 'rebuilding mode' to 'going for the playoffs' mode is just murdering the Oilers, and the lack of top-end players that Lowe has aquired is disturbing. He has moved off one possible top-end youngster and probobly hasn't gotten one in return (though I like Woywitka) now, and people still think this guy has direction? Really, what direction is it? Does anybody know? Are the Oilers in 'survival for CBA' mode? If so, why are they signing Adam Oates, signing Georges Laraques and Ethan Moreau to 4-year deals, and still stuck with Tommy Salo's contract like a millstone around their neck.
Are they in 'Rebuild' mode? If so, why Oates again, but why Cross, why continue to play Ferguson yet sit Bergeron, and WHY trade Mike Comrie for no young players back, as many Oiler fans expected (and don't say you didn't, we all saw the trade proposals here leading up to the trade). Are the Oilers 'going for the playoffs' as Kevin Lowe recently said? Then why are a spectacular number of rookies and AHL'ers playing for the Oilers this season? Why does he keep the Oilers as one of the youngest teams in the league when everyone knows darn well that super-young teams generally don't make the playoffs unless somebody has 'Gretzky' etched on the backs of their jerseys.

What is Kevin Lowe doing? I'll tell you what. He's in 'fly by the seat of his pants' mode. People will no doubt ignore it until the final days. I don't understand the allegiance to the bitter end that some fans have towards GM's, but with Kevin Lowe it seems to be some of the feircest loyalty I've seen towards a GM. Most of this probobly has to do with the fact he was such a good player for them. That's admirable, but there's only so much BS you can feed oneselves. There's an old saying that I like here, 'If you tell yourself something enough times, you'll believe it to be true.'. I find it's more than apt here, as many fans of the Oilers have told themselves for so long that Kevin Lowe is a great GM (heck, remember the 'Lowe is a top 5 GM' thread a few months ago?), that they simply attempt to ignore his mistakes.

PS: Okay, that was a big rant, but it's more than pissing me off here.

PPS: York still frickin' kicks arse. I had my York jersey on today, and was enjoying the first snowfall of the season over here on the Island with my neices tonight. I come in for 5 minutes for some hot chocolate, and I see that York scored one (on SportsNet). Cool, go outside for a long while, come back in again, and he scores again. I tried to come back in once more when I thought overtime would be going on, but no luck.

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12-30-2003, 10:28 PM
  #13
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One last thing about teams fans. Saying you hate a team because of the fans is just silly. I remember going to Edmonton in the early 90's when the Canucks were actually finally starting to do something, and my Uncles would just laugh at the Canucks being mentioned, and go on and on about Oilers players. Did this make me hate the Oilers? Heck no, I went and saw a few of their games that year.

I have been to several NHL buildings, and I can tell you that every one has about the same percentage of people. 75% of the people you meet are very nice, and very friendly, 20% are drunk and are half-out-of-it, and 5% are certified, card-carrying jerks. It's the same everywhere. I had a buddy who was beat up outside of Skyreach a few years ago, and I also know somebody who had her shirt torn at a game in Detroit (Canucks jersey). Is it right to base an entire population of the city based on a couple bad eggs? Not unless you're in the Third Reich.

Trust me, (most of) the players don't like jerk-off fans any more than you do. Players of *every* team.

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12-30-2003, 10:52 PM
  #14
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First of all, relax. I was merely trying to point out the situation was more complex than the poster realized, and that it was wrong for someone to judge Lowe when the team is playing poorly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Give me more excuses. Please.

Point for point:

- He couldn't rebuild the Oilers in a conventional sense because there would be an uproad

Uproar over what? A better team? What he hell has he been doing? Is this an 'unconventional' rebuild? If if is, what's unconventional about it? And what would this 'conventional' rebuild cause that isn't already happening right now?
When you rebuild, initially your team gets worse, not better. People would not be happy about that. The Oilers owners can not afford to lose much money any given year, so they must ice a competitive team every year. So they could not undergo a "conventional rebuild" by dumping a bunch of players. Instead, they have to rebuild by simultaneously staying competitive. A horrendous task, but one Lowe has performed admirably by keeping the team young, and keeping them in the playoffs for the most part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
- The Oilers can't play the trap in this town

Baloney. The Devils play the trap, and they aren't completely boring (not as nearly as some say). The Wild, the Canes - these teams are dreadfully boring. The trap does not mean boredom. Do you find the Ottawa Senators boring? The Detroit Red Wings? These two play the trap, or versions of it, that are highly defense-first coaching schemes, yet both have one of the best power plays and goals for in the league. The Oilers CAN play the trap in this town. They just don't.
First, the Devils are a bad example. They are a quasi dynasty that struggles to sell out. I wonder why? Could it have anything to do with boredom? And if you haven't noticed, the Oilers don;t have the skill of Ottawa and Detroit. They can play the trap and still be interesting, but we can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
- His individual moves have been good.

Very, very debatable.
There recently was thread analysing Lowe's moves, I'm sure you saw it. It convinced me that Lowe's moves have largely been good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
- The last three seasons, the Oilers have had the 10th best record in the NHL

Funny, weren't those the teams loaded with stuff from Sather's crew? If Lowe is still 'digging up' the relics of the Sather days (which would be exceedingly slow - consider that Brian Burke (and Mike Keenan I guess), for example, was able to turn the Canucks franchise around after only 2 years. Kevin Lowe is coming into his 4th season as GM is he not? How long does it take?
I realized I was contradicting myself, but I was so angry because of the origional post I didn't care. Again, Lowe doesn't have the luxury of losing a tonne of cash in a single season like Burke did.
---------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Sorry if I come off too harsh here, but posts like this make me gag. They remind of the same speel that I heard in Calgary about Button. 'Oh, but this time it's different!'. Why? Because a Hall of Fame defenseman tries to run a franchise? The Oilers have gone from a good, top 10 team in the league 5 years ago to a bubble team or worse now.
Under Sather, the Oilers were a much worse team (never above 500 since the glory days). The Oilers, however, don't seem to be getting better because the western conference has been tougher. They've been above 500 every year since Lowe arrived, I believe (although this year might be the exception)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Now if Kevin Lowe were following the traditional 5-year plan, we would expect to see a pretty big upswing next season, and yes, it could happen. However, you look at the personel currently on the club, and you look at the pipeline.. what comes to mind? Boy, there sure isn't a lot of top flight players is there? Where are the Gaborik's that most other rebuilding teams have gotten by now? Think of recent 'other' rebuilding teams', almost every successful one had one key superstar, or more. The Canucks had Naslund, the Kings had Palffy, the Sens had Yashin (now Hossa), the Leafs had Sundin (talking about their emergence from the cold dead-of-night that was the mid 90's.
Yashin and Sundin were drafted by teams that were horrid. As I said, the Oilers don't have that luxury. The Kings basically ripped the Islanders off for Palffy. The Oilers can't make that trade because they wouldn't be able to afford Palffy's salary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Do you see Hemsky as being that kind of talent? And if so, don't you think he is 'behind' the age curve at the moment? If Lowe feels that Hemsky is going to be 'the guy' to lead the Oilers back to respectability, it's going to take about 3 more years at least, because the kid is.. well, still a kid!
Say what you want about Lowe, but don't diss Hemskey. The kid is amazing. I think the sky is the limit for him. Behind the curve? How many NHL points did Hejduk have at Hemskey's age? I bring up Hejduk, because that's who people seem to compare him to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
The Oilers look like a muddled mix of things that Lowe have tried to do, but failed in doing. Flip-flopping from 'rebuilding mode' to 'going for the playoffs' mode is just murdering the Oilers, and the lack of top-end players that Lowe has aquired is disturbing. He has moved off one possible top-end youngster and probobly hasn't gotten one in return (though I like Woywitka) now, and people still think this guy has direction? Really, what direction is it? Does anybody know? Are the Oilers in 'survival for CBA' mode? If so, why are they signing Adam Oates, signing Georges Laraques and Ethan Moreau to 4-year deals, and still stuck with Tommy Salo's contract like a millstone around their neck.
Are they in 'Rebuild' mode? If so, why Oates again, but why Cross, why continue to play Ferguson yet sit Bergeron, and WHY trade Mike Comrie for no young players back, as many Oiler fans expected (and don't say you didn't, we all saw the trade proposals here leading up to the trade). Are the Oilers 'going for the playoffs' as Kevin Lowe recently said? Then why are a spectacular number of rookies and AHL'ers playing for the Oilers this season? Why does he keep the Oilers as one of the youngest teams in the league when everyone knows darn well that super-young teams generally don't make the playoffs unless somebody has 'Gretzky' etched on the backs of their jerseys.

What is Kevin Lowe doing? I'll tell you what. He's in 'fly by the seat of his pants' mode. People will no doubt ignore it until the final days. I don't understand the allegiance to the bitter end that some fans have towards GM's, but with Kevin Lowe it seems to be some of the feircest loyalty I've seen towards a GM. Most of this probobly has to do with the fact he was such a good player for them. That's admirable, but there's only so much BS you can feed oneselves. There's an old saying that I like here, 'If you tell yourself something enough times, you'll believe it to be true.'. I find it's more than apt here, as many fans of the Oilers have told themselves for so long that Kevin Lowe is a great GM (heck, remember the 'Lowe is a top 5 GM' thread a few months ago?), that they simply attempt to ignore his mistakes.
As I said earlier, Lowe has to rebuild while staying competitive. That explains the contradictory moves.


Last edited by The Rage: 12-30-2003 at 11:14 PM.
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12-30-2003, 11:24 PM
  #15
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Frankly, Mizral most of your points do ring true for me. The Oilers are by definition a "tweener" as the term was so graciously termed on Oilfans... and it is most definitely killing them as an organization. Sometimes I wish Lowe would just freaking rebuild the team already but I know it isn't going to happen.

Why? It's simply the mentality of the city, the organization, and the fans that want and expect a team to make the playoffs every year even if that means that long-term the team suffers. This is getting harsh but I firmly believe that is the way it is.

Now I don't want to put the entire onus on Kevin Lowe for his moves. Personally, Mizral, you know my views on him as a GM pretty well as we have discussed him for a while now. But he is also a product of that mentality. It's a wonder to me how he managed to keep the team afloat making the playoffs for so long a time. He's done a good job in that realm of thinking... It is not entirely his fault that he's chosen this direction for the club... it's a product of the mentality that has gripped the city IMO.

Sometimes I wish Lowe would just say to heck with it... and let's blow it up already. After all.. it's already half blown up anyway.

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12-30-2003, 11:38 PM
  #16
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To answer the question posed in the title of this thread: " Where would the Oilers be without the Lowe trades?"

How about Houston Texas or Portland Oregon?

Not making those trades would have the Oilers with about a $45M payroll, if not higher. Actually that wouldn't be a problem because the new owners in those two cities would be able to afford it.

I would rather have the crappiest, dead last, no recognizeable names on the team, play the trap cause we have to inorder to compete, team in the frickin' NHL than no team at all.

I say I'd rather live in that city than in Winnipeg, or Quebec City.

How about you?

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Old
12-31-2003, 04:18 AM
  #17
Mr Sakich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejean31
Oh yes. Your GM is SO great he has his team in 13th place out of 15 teams. And for the last time, I know it is difficult for you undereducated Edmontonians, it is BUTTON not BUTTONS.
Rejean, I hope you were drunk when you posted that.

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12-31-2003, 06:04 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
One last thing about teams fans. Saying you hate a team because of the fans is just silly. I remember going to Edmonton in the early 90's when the Canucks were actually finally starting to do something, and my Uncles would just laugh at the Canucks being mentioned, and go on and on about Oilers players. Did this make me hate the Oilers? Heck no, I went and saw a few of their games that year.

I have been to several NHL buildings, and I can tell you that every one has about the same percentage of people. 75% of the people you meet are very nice, and very friendly, 20% are drunk and are half-out-of-it, and 5% are certified, card-carrying jerks. It's the same everywhere. I had a buddy who was beat up outside of Skyreach a few years ago, and I also know somebody who had her shirt torn at a game in Detroit (Canucks jersey). Is it right to base an entire population of the city based on a couple bad eggs? Not unless you're in the Third Reich.

Trust me, (most of) the players don't like jerk-off fans any more than you do. Players of *every* team.
No, I don't think its silly to hate a team becuase of the fans. Look at Toronto for instance. If their crap wasn't shoved down our throats every Saturday on HNIC or even to the extent on TSN. There is no denying that. That is the reason why I hate the Leafs. As far as the Canucks go, its is more than just the fans. I used to like watching them, but thier team is full of whiners. From Bertuzzi to Linden to Crawford...blah! Whenever something happens, Bertuzzi is the first to complain. Its sickening. I'm just thinking of when he got slashed the other game against the Oil...sure he got slashed and yeah, it probably hurt...boo hoo. I remember him skating to the bench, yipping to the ref then throwing his glove toward the ref. Man, I hate him.

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12-31-2003, 06:06 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by GuyF
To answer the question posed in the title of this thread: " Where would the Oilers be without the Lowe trades?"

How about Houston Texas or Portland Oregon?

Not making those trades would have the Oilers with about a $45M payroll, if not higher. Actually that wouldn't be a problem because the new owners in those two cities would be able to afford it.

I would rather have the crappiest, dead last, no recognizeable names on the team, play the trap cause we have to inorder to compete, team in the frickin' NHL than no team at all.

I say I'd rather live in that city than in Winnipeg, or Quebec City.

How about you?

Bang On Guy! I'd rather have a crap team in Edmonton than a contender in Houston or Portland. (See Quebec/Colorado if any questions), excellent point!!

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12-31-2003, 06:23 AM
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Bang On Guy! I'd rather have a crap team in Edmonton than a contender in Houston or Portland. (See Quebec/Colorado if any questions), excellent point!!
i am a flames fan and while we are enjoying the run, most of us are not exactly planning the stanley cup route either... as for kevin lowe, i think he has done a decent job up there, it is hard to trade players when every G.M in the league knows you have to trade them... is it Lowes fault that Salo has had a bad year, that Ryan Smyth is not scoring?? i know i would sooner have Dvorak than Anson Carter... as a flames fan and a canadian team fan ( except the leafs), i hope edmonton turns the corner and both calgary and edmonton both make the playoffs...

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12-31-2003, 06:36 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by reg dunlop
i am a flames fan and while we are enjoying the run, most of us are not exactly planning the stanley cup route either... as for kevin lowe, i think he has done a decent job up there, it is hard to trade players when every G.M in the league knows you have to trade them... is it Lowes fault that Salo has had a bad year, that Ryan Smyth is not scoring?? i know i would sooner have Dvorak than Anson Carter... as a flames fan and a canadian team fan ( except the leafs), i hope edmonton turns the corner and both calgary and edmonton both make the playoffs...

My feeling as well. I hope that both teams make the playoffs...it'd be fun. Just a question for you...why don't you cheer for the Leafs? It wouldn't be their arrogance thats shoved down your throat by the media outlets and fans??

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12-31-2003, 06:40 AM
  #22
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couldn't agree more with you Reg. I hope the flames make the playoffs because their fans deserve it. I can put up with a bit of jocularity from my neighbors because they had to endure my jibes for the last 7 years.

BTW, I really miss your avatar of the black superhero. I can't remeber what movie he was in but it was very funny.

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12-31-2003, 06:47 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by mbam99
My feeling as well. I hope that both teams make the playoffs...it'd be fun. Just a question for you...why don't you cheer for the Leafs? It wouldn't be their arrogance thats shoved down your throat by the media outlets and fans??
i think you have hit the nail on the head there, i get so tired of hearing how the Leafs are not treated right by the refs, could it be because they have idiots like domi and tucker whining constantly.. did you hear don cherry whining about 2 months ago, that the leafs arent able to go out and win the cup because the teachers pension group who owns a lot of shares in the leafs wont allow them to increase their payroll... their payroll is over 10 million more than the Devils???? maybe dont spend money on guys like reichel and domi then?? i would much prefer edmonton to win the cup than the Leafs....

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12-31-2003, 06:50 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by reg dunlop
i think you have hit the nail on the head there, i get so tired of hearing how the Leafs are not treated right by the refs, could it be because they have idiots like domi and tucker whining constantly.. did you hear don cherry whining about 2 months ago, that the leafs arent able to go out and win the cup because the teachers pension group who owns a lot of shares in the leafs wont allow them to increase their payroll... their payroll is over 10 million more than the Devils???? maybe dont spend money on guys like reichel and domi then?? i would much prefer edmonton to win the cup than the Leafs....
I can't believe I see eye to eye with a Flames fan. Wonders will never cease! 2004 may be good after all....

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12-31-2003, 07:41 AM
  #25
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I would wager that the Oilers probably have among the lowest percentages of corporately-held seasons tickets in the entire league, and the highest percentages of seasons tickets held by individuals. The Oilers would definitely feel the sting at the box-office if the team's on-ice record slumps badly (as we saw in the mid-1990s, although that was also a result of the off-ice situation with regard to Peter Pocklington.) The Oilers have been trying to walk a line of rebuilding (Sather's core of the late 1990s turns over) while still icing a lineup that people will pay to watch. Whether they've been very successful at either is certainly open to debate.


Moves that Lowe deserves some credit for-- ask the Ranger fans if they'd undo the York for Poti deal if they could. Ask the Ranger fans if they could undo Dvorak for Carter. Ask the Bruins fans if they're happy with the net results of the Guerin for Carter+ trade.

Moves that are debatable-- Hamrlik for Brewer+ ... Niinimaa for Torres/Isbister. Hecht for DesLauriers/Stoll. All are wait and see.

Bad moves-- Weight for Hecht/Reasoner (but given the limited market for big $ players, understandable.) 3rd round pick for Dopita (gak). Letting Todd Marchant walk (obviously he isn't worth a $19m/6 year deal, but we could have had him as an RFA for a couple hundred thousand more.) Handling of the Mike Comrie situation.


Off ice, Lowe deserves credit for revamping the system. I think the team is better organized off-ice. Sather cronies gone. The team's drafting has improved. The affiliation with Lyle Abraham in Toronto should help the team. The marketting has improved. The Oilers have a better handle on TV and PPV. Probably the credit for some of this stuff should go to Patrick Laforge rather than Lowe, but either way, having Lowe as GM and Laforge as President is working out better off-ice for the Oilers than having Sather wearing both hats.


Direction-- overall, my complaint with Lowe isn't really with any particular move, it's with some of the choices. This team has been short a center ever since Jason Arnott left, and that's still never been addressed. I'm not overly happy with the defense. The Canucks have been able to bring in guys like Sami Salo and Marvek Moolek on the cheap... the Oilers could really use guys like that right now.

I think it's also entirely fair to question Lowe's choice of coaching staff. There's just no reason why the Oilers' special teams should be at the bottom of the league. With middle of the pack special teams, the Oilers would probably be several places up in the standings. I think a better coaching staff would make a big difference for this team.

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