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Boston Bruins salary cap figures - CAP TALK HERE !

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Old
07-06-2007, 04:00 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee Wally View Post
good point.

Let's sticky this one and try to keep it to one thread.
Thanks Wally, I was tired of seeing a new one of these every day or two.

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07-06-2007, 04:21 PM
  #27
Wonder Boy
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Derek,

your numbers are wrong for Mark Stuart and Matt Lashoff. They were both recently adjusted.

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07-06-2007, 07:47 PM
  #28
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COC you can add Allen Cap hit which is 525,000

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07-06-2007, 10:40 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by PlayMaker View Post
You're only counting 20 NHL players. The cap is based on 23, I believe. So you can take at least another $960k off that number, if those two unnamed players make the league minimum of $480k. Which leaves you slightly less than $2.8 to spend on one more guy.
Since we're talking about the regular season ... the cap is based on however many guys are on the active roster (minimum of 20, maximum of 23), plus guys on Injured Reserve. Zhamnov will be back on LTIR so for all practical purposes you can ignore him ... but how much of his $4.1 million will end up being replaced depends on how close the B's are to the Upper Limit at the start of the season. If they're $100,000 shy, they'll only be able to replace $4 million of it.

(I've got an example on the Business of Hockey forum to illustrate this.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder Boy View Post
Derek,

your numbers are wrong for Mark Stuart and Matt Lashoff. They were both recently adjusted.
They're correct. The adjustment was only for last season, and has no effect on their cap numbers for this season.

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07-14-2007, 02:53 PM
  #30
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How calculated are PCs FA signings?

When we hired PC, there were rumblings that he is a capologist. However, IMO his signings certainly do not reflect this. For example, consider his recent goaltending signing. We now have:
- Toivonen signed on a 1-way deal, RFA in 2008/09
- Manny signed to a 4.75 M contract until 2008/09
- Thomas signed for 1.1 M until 2009/10
- Tuukka Rask signed at $850,000 with bonus' of over 7 Million

This deal ties up 4.5 million in much needed cap space that could have been used to lock up a core group of players next year (similar to what Ray Shero is doing in Pittsburg). It also forces us to trade one of Toivonen or Thomas (preferably) for less than market value.

In 2008/09 (next season), we have several RFA's to lock up including:
- Chuck Kobasew
- Brandon Bochenski
- Mark Stuart
- Denis Wideman
- Hannu Toivonen
- and Phil Kessel and possibly Krejci if we sign them early

If the players have decent years in terms of production, I just don't see where the cashflow is coming from to sign these players. We only have Ward, Donovan, and Mowers coming off the books for a total of 4.15 million. If Kobasew and Bochenski score 20+ each, they themselves will eat up 4 million. IMO, PC has to dump off at least 1-2 large salaries (Murray, Axelson, Thomas, or Savard) to leave us leverage to sign these key pieces.

Another issue that PC will have to inevitably address is: Do we want to tie up over 13 million in cap space for three Centers?

This is particularly concerning when you consider we have Hamill, Krejci, Marchand or Sobotka that could fill the 3rd line spot effectively, with a much cheaper price tag.

Should we be dangling Marc Savard instead of Murray? It may be the intelligent thing to do, as Savard has high value and could yield a #2 D or a #1 LW. The harsh reality is Murray will not yield a return that will fill either of these voids.

PC has some very interesting decisions to make over the next year or so. IMO, Axelson (1.85 M until 08/09), along with Thomas (1.1 million until 2009/10) have to be traded to open up space.

I would certainly be entertaining offers for a package involving Savard, Axelson, and Thomas from teams in the Western Conference. I'd target Nashville and Calgary as both teams could use a #1 Center and a #2 goalie. From Nashville, a return a Shea Weber and Tootoo would be nice, although I doubt this would happen given their management conditions. From Calgary, a return of Tanguay and a 2nd would be sufficient and feasible for both teams. A top 6 of:

Tanguay-Bergeron-Murray
Sturm- Kessel- Kobasew

would be nice for this season. However, this is not the main benefit of this calculated deal. This deal would also open up 2.975 million in cap space in 2008/09, in addition to the 4.15 million when Ward, Dovovan and Mowers come off the books. 7 million should enable us to lock up Kobasew, Bochenski, Toivonen, Mark Stuart, and Wideman to long term deals. The deal also opens up over 16 million in cap space in 2009/10 when Murray, Fernandez and Tanguay come off the books. This should enable us to maintain our core (lock up Kessel and Lashoff long term as they become RFAs in 2009/10 and Rask in 2010/11) and fill in any holes for a Stanley Cup run in 2009/10.


Last edited by CapeB: 07-14-2007 at 03:08 PM.
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Old
07-14-2007, 02:55 PM
  #31
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your right PC better lock up those r fa's like Kessel and Kobasew we can't afford to lose players like that.

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07-14-2007, 03:29 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruins888 View Post
your right PC better lock up those r fa's like Kessel and Kobasew we can't afford to lose players like that.
I consider myself a Bruins fan until death. HOWEVER, if someone swooped in (KLowe-like) and stole Kessel because Chia had gotten us into a situation where we didn't have the room to match, I'm afraid I'd be forced to stay away until PC was gone. I'd still watch games on TV but this club would not get a ****ing penny from me until his Harvard ass was crawling back to Ottawa. Absolutely unforgivable.

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07-14-2007, 03:34 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChara View Post
I consider myself a Bruins fan until death. HOWEVER, if someone swooped in (KLowe-like) and stole Kessel because Chia had gotten us into a situation where we didn't have the room to match, I'm afraid I'd be forced to stay away until PC was gone. I'd still watch games on TV but this club would not get a ****ing penny from me until his Harvard ass was crawling back to Ottawa. Absolutely unforgivable.
It won't happen.
A.Ward comes off the books next year and will have plenty of cap space

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07-14-2007, 03:37 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greek_physique View Post
It won't happen.
A.Ward comes off the books next year and will have plenty of cap space
I'm not saying it will. I'm just kinda throwing it out there. I figure if I say it out loud it won't happen. Daring the hockey gods, I guess.

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Old
07-14-2007, 03:44 PM
  #35
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Kessel isn't a RFA untill 08/09, so we don't have to worry about anyone snatching him up with an offer sheet next off-season. Chia has been fairly good at getting our important players locked up.

Getting Mark Stuart signed to a reasonable cap friendly contract will give us extra room. His cap hit this season is over $1.5 million with bonuses, so it's unlikely he'll be making anything near that next season.

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07-14-2007, 03:53 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Greek_physique View Post
It won't happen.
A.Ward comes off the books next year and will have plenty of cap space
Aaron Ward coming off the books doesn't give the B's much room. If Kobasew and Bochenski score 20+, there goes about 3.2 million assuming Kobasew gets 3 million and Bochenski gets 2 per year. I expect Mark Stuart to get 2 million per season long term and Wideman to sign for about 1.2-1.5 million. Toivonen should get about 1.5 million as well, given the current market. That's another 3 million, totalling 6.2 million when only 4.15 million is coming off the books. PC can't keep praying for a cap increase each year. He has to be more calculated and leave some wiggle room.

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Old
07-14-2007, 04:23 PM
  #37
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Manny's cap hit is $4.3 million. That contract has nothing to do with Chiarelli and neither does Thomas', so I don't know how you can hold those against him. Toivonen got the contract he got because at this point he lacks a future with the team, and will likely be traded at some point.

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07-14-2007, 04:36 PM
  #38
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I'm not the best guy with numbers, but here's what I have in money commited to next season. I included Krejci, because in all likely hood he'll make the team this season, if not next (bearing a trade that is). From what I see, we'll have plenty of room to sign our key RFA's.

Forwards:

Name06-07 Cap Hit
Mark Savard$5,000,000
Patrice Bergeron$4,750,000
Glen Murray$4,150,000
Marco Sturm$3,500,000
Phil Kessel$2,200,000
Peter Schaefer$2,100,000
PJ Axlesson$1,850,000
David Krejci$883,333
Shawn Thornton$516,667
Jeremy Reich$475,000
Stanislav ChistovRFA
Brandon BochenskiRFA
Chuck KobasewRFA
TOTAL (13)$25,425,000

Defence:

Name06-07 Cap Hit
Zdeno Chara$7,500,000
Andrew Ference$1,400,000
Andrew Alberts$1,250,000
Mark StuartRFA
Dennis WidemanRFA
TOTAL (5)$10,150,000

Goalies:

Name06-07 Cap Hit
Manny Fernandez$4,333,333
Tim Thomas$1,100,000
Hannu ToivonanRFA
TOTAL (3)$5,433,333

Team06-07 Cap Hit
Boston Bruins (15 Signed) (6 RFA)$41,008,333


Last edited by BadBruins: 07-17-2007 at 05:03 PM.
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Old
07-14-2007, 05:01 PM
  #39
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I can't say anything about next years' cap room or lack of . I don't think anyone can, so we are just ASSUM(E)ing.

For all I know the cap will go up again. If it comes down...........it's children and women first on a few ships so why worry.

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Old
07-14-2007, 05:04 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBruins View Post
I'm not the best guy with numbers, but here's what I have in money commited to next season. I included Krejci, because in all likely hood he'll make the team this season, if not next (bearing a trade that is). From what I see, we'll have plenty of room to sign our key RFA's.

Forwards:

Name06-07 Cap Hit
Mark Savard$5,000,000
Patrice Bergeron$4,750,000
Glen Murray$4,150,000
Marco Sturm$3,500,000
Phil Kessel$2,200,000
PJ Axlesson$1,850,000
David Krejci$883,333
Shawn Thornton$516,667
Jeremy Reich$475,000
Stanislav ChistovRFA
Brandon BochenskiRFA
Chuck KobasewRFA
TOTAL (12)$23,325,000

Defence:

Name06-07 Cap Hit
Zdeno Chara$7,500,000
Andrew Ference$1,400,000
Andrew Alberts$1,250,000
Mark StuartRFA
Dennis WidemanRFA
TOTAL (5)$10,150,000

Goalies:

Name06-07 Cap Hit
Manny Fernandez$4,333,333
Tim Thomas$1,100,000
Hannu ToivonanRFA
TOTAL (3)$5,433,333

Team06-07 Cap Hit
Boston Bruins (14 Signed) (6 RFA)$38,908,333

Assuming the cap stays around 48-50 million, you have:

Bochenski@ ~2 million
Kobasew @ ~3 million
Lashoff @ ~700,000
M.Stuart @ ~2 million
D.Wideman @ ~1.5 million
H.Toivonen @ ~ 1.5 million
7th D @ league minimum
12th forward @ 700,000-900,000

Total: ~12 million which is pretty tight. Take away one goalie (Thomas) and the B's are around 10.5-10.9 million + 39 million~ 50 million. This doesn't leave us alot of wiggle room. We certainly won't be players in the UFA market for a few years to come.

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07-14-2007, 05:06 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by CapeB View Post
We certainly won't be players in the UFA market for a few years to come.
You say that like it's a bad thing. We need to continue to build from within, and establish our core of players first, before we go signing free agents that will put us over the top.

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07-14-2007, 05:08 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BruinsFTW View Post
Manny's cap hit is $4.3 million. That contract has nothing to do with Chiarelli and neither does Thomas', so I don't know how you can hold those against him. Toivonen got the contract he got because at this point he lacks a future with the team, and will likely be traded at some point.
Manny's contract certainly has something to do with PC. He traded for him and crippled our flexibility for years to come. Unless, PC can unload Axelson, Murray, or Thomas, we will not be players in the UFA market for at least a few years.

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07-14-2007, 05:12 PM
  #43
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Manny's contract certainly has something to do with PC. He traded for him and crippled our flexibility for years to come.
Talk about a hyperbole.

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07-14-2007, 05:15 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapeB View Post
Assuming the cap stays around 48-50 million, you have:

Bochenski@ ~2 million
Kobasew @ ~3 million
Lashoff @ ~700,000
M.Stuart @ ~2 million
D.Wideman @ ~1.5 million
H.Toivonen @ ~ 1.5 million
7th D @ league minimum
12th forward @ 700,000-900,000

Total: ~12 million which is pretty tight. Take away one goalie (Thomas) and the B's are around 10.5-10.9 million + 39 million~ 50 million. This doesn't leave us alot of wiggle room. We certainly won't be players in the UFA market for a few years to come.
You're over-estimating salarys for every player on your list IMO. It's highly unlikely that Bochenski, Wideman, Toivionan and Kobasew get 130%+ raises. That kind of stuff doesn't happen unless they get long term deals or perform way above expectations.

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07-14-2007, 05:17 PM
  #45
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I think , for next year, you have to pencil in Rask at 2 million to 3 million.

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07-14-2007, 05:47 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee Wally View Post
I think , for next year, you have to pencil in Rask at 2 million to 3 million.
Those figures must include bonus's.

Assuming his contract is for a few years, Do you think the Bruins would kind of keep him in the minors ALA Jason Spezza just to save a few bucks CAP wise?

I would be interested to see how his contract is defined and how realistic it is for him to obtain those goals.

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07-14-2007, 05:55 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by BadBruins View Post
You're over-estimating salarys for every player on your list IMO. It's highly unlikely that Bochenski, Wideman, Toivionan and Kobasew get 130%+ raises. That kind of stuff doesn't happen unless they get long term deals or perform way above expectations.
Some maybe slightly overestimated. However, others like "the league minimum" are underestimated. I am basing salary assumptions on the output projected by many posters on this board. For instance, many people are estimating that Kobasew and Bochenski are going to get 20+ goals each this season. Taylor Pyatt got 23 goals last season and receives 1.6 million a year. I would say Bochenski will be comparable to Pyatt.

Kobasew is a different story. He is a more well rounded player and I don't think it is unreasoanble if PC offer's him a long term deal at around 2.5-3 million a year, if he has a solid season. Toivonen's contract potential is questionable. However, in my calculations I subtracted Thomas' 1.1 million salary anyways, to be conservative.

I also did not include Rask, Mark Stuart and Lashoff's potential rookie bonus'. Overall, I would say these estimates are relatively conservative when you consider these issues. The harsh reality is we are very close to the cap and PC needs to be a little more calculated in is decisions.

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07-14-2007, 06:28 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
DISCLAIMER: I said I don't know if the Bruins went over. If Kessel earned any part of the bonuses he could have received, then the B's went over by that amount. If he didn't earn any of them, then the B's didn't go over.

As of right now, I'm assuming that the B's did not go over, and my numbers reflect that assumption - but if it comes out that the B's did in fact go over, then I'll adjust accordingly.
I wonder if the Capologist knew we were going to be over and decided he needed to deal Stuart sooner than the deadline to make sure he had some flexibility. Of course this neccesitated taking less had he actually waited (judging on other returns) but hey, Peter is the cap guy.

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07-14-2007, 06:29 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by CapeB View Post

Kobasew is a different story. He is a more well rounded player and I don't think it is unreasoanble if PC offer's him a long term deal at around 2.5-3 million a year, if he has a solid season. Toivonen's contract potential is questionable. However, in my calculations I subtracted Thomas' 1.1 million salary anyways, to be conservative.

.
Kobasew at 2.5-3m per? Wow....I dont even think he is that stupid. And that is what that move would be...stupid. No other way to sugarcoat it.

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07-14-2007, 06:33 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by CapeB View Post
Assuming the cap stays around 48-50 million, you have:

Bochenski@ ~2 million
Kobasew @ ~3 million
Lashoff @ ~700,000
M.Stuart @ ~2 million
D.Wideman @ ~1.5 million
H.Toivonen @ ~ 1.5 million
7th D @ league minimum
12th forward @ 700,000-900,000

Total: ~12 million which is pretty tight. Take away one goalie (Thomas) and the B's are around 10.5-10.9 million + 39 million~ 50 million. This doesn't leave us alot of wiggle room. We certainly won't be players in the UFA market for a few years to come.
Well you got Lashoff right. You are so far off on the others it is scary.

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