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Old
07-06-2007, 02:24 PM
  #1
Pizza
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What are the Rangers up to?

Somethings have clicked in my head and I wanted to get the boards take.

Since the end of this past season one theme seems to have resonated and been very strongly expressed between Sather, Renney and player leadership (Jagr, Shanny, etc.). That is: We are going for the Cup....NOW Not that these guys are not always thinking this way, but the sense of urgency would seem to be more……urgent.

I considered the remarks from Jagr and Shanny after the loss to the Sabres coupled with their limited time frame as players. Those statements were then followed by those of Renney, both at the fan fest (“we’re gonna win a Cup for you fans”) and following the Gomez/Drury signings. Then factor in Sather’s desire to leave an unassailable legacy.

The Bottom line is that I think we could see some pretty radical stuff in the next week or so. All this may seem like a bit of a Duh to many, but can you guys give me your thoughts on this.

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07-06-2007, 02:31 PM
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I think we've already seen most of the radical stuff. The signing of Gomez and Drury.

There's still a possibility of a sign or trade for a defenseman, of course. But yeah, that'll require trading at least 2 of Cullen, Malik, or Mara. Again, I mention those three because they have the most movable contracts at this point.

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07-06-2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Somethings have clicked in my head and I wanted to get the boards take.

Since the end of this past season one theme seems to have resonated and been very strongly expressed between Sather, Renney and player leadership (Jagr, Shanny, etc.). That is: We are going for the Cup....NOW Not that these guys are not always thinking this way, but the sense of urgency would seem to be more……urgent.

I considered the remarks from Jagr and Shanny after the loss to the Sabres coupled with their limited time frame as players. Those statements were then followed by those of Renney, both at the fan fest (“we’re gonna win a Cup for you fans”) and following the Gomez/Drury signings. Then factor in Sather’s desire to leave an unassailable legacy.

The Bottom line is that I think we could see some pretty radical stuff in the next week or so. All this may seem like a bit of a Duh to many, but can you guys give me your thoughts on this.
I think you're right on the point that they want to go for the Cup ASAP, but Renney's and Slats' words have also indicated that they are committed to the long term health of this club. I could see them trading Cullen and/or Malik to try to land Souray, and fill Hossa's spot with Korpi or someone else from Hartford. I also think the entry-level contract for AA also shows their desire for the high-potential youth to at least get the chance to make an impression. I'm not sure what you mean by radical, but I'm really not sure what else the Rags have left in the tank IF they get Souray.

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07-06-2007, 02:35 PM
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Interesting Lev.

Thanks for reading my long winded train of thought.

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07-06-2007, 02:44 PM
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Well, I dunno. I'm torn really. I can see the Rangers making a move for a defenseman, but I don't know who. I know I don't want someone who's going to have a huge cap hit, but who knows what the Rangers want.

So, that might still be coming up. Or they might go into the season more or less with what they have and see how it shakes out. Then make a move later on, or towards the trade deadline.

Risky, but might end up good.

I think that they definitely are trying to go for it, but the cap does impose some constraints. Maybe they intended to not spend so much on the centers and get a defenseman too, but couldn't resist once they saw the opportunity to get Gomez and Drury.

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07-06-2007, 04:28 PM
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didn't Jim Rutherford once say one of his worst trades was getting rid of Malik???

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07-06-2007, 06:01 PM
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I wouldn't mind picking up Asham for the 4th line. Not that there's room. I think we need to dress a 5th line.

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07-06-2007, 07:24 PM
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I think the hunt for the BIG Dman has them stumped.

Souray likely is wanting to come here and giving the Rangers ample time to make it work. But how long is is he expected to wait?

They surely have a plan B too. Jovo, Gonchar, Boyle, Visnovsky are all going to require financial commitments AND players going the other way. Talented players.

Its no secret the Rangers want a big pp qb d man.

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07-06-2007, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
I think the hunt for the BIG Dman has them stumped.

Souray likely is wanting to come here and giving the Rangers ample time to make it work. But how long is is he expected to wait?
I just can't wrap my head around the idea of Souray as a "bigtime D-man". He's a PP specialist, that's it! He's Andy Delmore with more snarl. If they're going to go all out for a defenseman, get one that can play D too.

he's just not worth the money he seems to be looking for.

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07-06-2007, 08:54 PM
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I just don't get this whole Souray thing.Yes,they need a d-man,but they need a d-man that can actually play D! They won't have trouble scoring goals next year.The way I see it,unless Staal comes to camp and impresses,the D to me looks shaky. They don't need Souray and his 26 goals on the PP.I expect the PP to be lethal with who they have now. They need bodies in front of Hank that can keep the puck away from him a few times. Come on now,people. What's the point in scoring 200 goals a season if they allow as many? I know i may be pushing it a little,but you get the point here. I don't want them to deviate from the defensive style that's been successful,and fall in love with just scoring goals.

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07-06-2007, 09:00 PM
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Guys I don't see how you can get Souray. We have after Prucha signing something like 7.87 million for Lunqvist Avery Shanahan and Hossa. I don't know how they are going to fit those guys under the cap never mind get Souray. Even if they move Malik Souray would have to fit in his salary structure which would be a problem.

I got the numbers from nhlnumbers.com.

Straka Gomez Jagr
Avery Drury Shanahan
Prucha Cullen Callahan
Hossa Betts Holweg
Orr

Roszival Malik Lungvist
Mara Staal Montoya
Tyutin Girardi

Shanahan Lunqvist Avery Hossa have to be signed with 7.87 million.
Or otherwise I am wrong about the cap hit.

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07-06-2007, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I just can't wrap my head around the idea of Souray as a "bigtime D-man". He's a PP specialist, that's it! He's Andy Delmore with more snarl. If they're going to go all out for a defenseman, get one that can play D too.

he's just not worth the money he seems to be looking for.
Who might be a better option in your opinion Lev.

With the guys we have on the PP, is it possible that Souray could net 30 goals and add 50 maybe 60 assists? Are those crazy numbers? Maybe what's holding up his signing is that he sees what he could do with the Rangers and wants to give Sather as much time as he can to figure something out.

The guy had 64 points last year on 26g & 38a. Would 80 points be out of the question for him with guys like we have standing in front of the net. The numbers seem with in reach to me.

My hesitation is that I have not seen him play enough. Is his defense that bad?

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07-06-2007, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NYRchick View Post
I just don't get this whole Souray thing.Yes,they need a d-man,but they need a d-man that can actually play D! They won't have trouble scoring goals next year.The way I see it,unless Staal comes to camp and impresses,the D to me looks shaky. They don't need Souray and his 26 goals on the PP.I expect the PP to be lethal with who they have now. They need bodies in front of Hank that can keep the puck away from him a few times. Come on now,people. What's the point in scoring 200 goals a season if they allow as many? I know i may be pushing it a little,but you get the point here. I don't want them to deviate from the defensive style that's been successful,and fall in love with just scoring goals.
yes, i 100% agree....i dont like souray just because it would cost us, and we need a shut down d-man more than a goal scorer....thats why as much as i like cullen, i would rather see him go than mara because mara provides us with sold D, and he can rip a shot every once and a while

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07-06-2007, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Who might be a better option in your opinion Lev.

With the guys we have on the PP, is it possible that Souray could net 30 goals and add 50 maybe 60 assists? Are those crazy numbers? Maybe what's holding up his signing is that he sees what he could do with the Rangers and wants to give Sather as much time as he can to figure something out.

The guy had 64 points last year on 26g & 38a. Would 80 points be out of the question for him with guys like we have standing in front of the net. The numbers seem with in reach to me.

My hesitation is that I have not seen him play enough. Is his defense that bad?
its not like anyone is syaing sourday wouldnt be a great additon to this team....but right now we have to worry about locking up henrik, avery, shanny, and even hossa....with the cap space we have left that might not even be possible without clearing up some room....so its not sourays ability anyone is questioning, it is our priorities and the cap space we have left

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07-06-2007, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Who might be a better option in your opinion Lev.
I honestly don't know. That's part of the problem, there's nothing really good out there at the moment.

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With the guys we have on the PP, is it possible that Souray could net 30 goals and add 50 maybe 60 assists? Are those crazy numbers?
Yes. I think his PP points total would drop with the Rangers, because they cannot figure out how to utilize a point shot. It doesn't matter who they've brought in, it just hasn't happened. Even if none of them have as good a shot as Souray, they've still specifically brought in defensemen to shoot on the PP, and it hasn't worked.

As long as the PP is running through Jagr, defensemen just aren't going to score as many points on the PP.

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My hesitation is that I have not seen him play enough. Is his defense that bad?
yes.

Like I've said before, I think he'd be worth going for if he was willing to sign for 3 years, $3.5-4 mill or something. But from all indications, he's looking for a big payout for a long time. Even Habs fans who watched him score 26 goals are laughing at the idea of him getting close to $6 mill.

Remember, even with all the supposed struggles of the PP and the lack of a real PP defensemen, the Rangers were still 8th in the league in PP percentage. Actually tied with 7th place Dallas.

Their PK? Not so much. 12th.

I admit that it's kind of a weak point, but it could be argued that the Rangers need to improve their PK more than their PP, and Souray isn't going to help that.

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07-06-2007, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I just can't wrap my head around the idea of Souray as a "bigtime D-man". He's a PP specialist, that's it! He's Andy Delmore with more snarl. If they're going to go all out for a defenseman, get one that can play D too.

he's just not worth the money he seems to be looking for.
I think we all have had ample time to ponder Sourays upside/downside.

Our defense was, despite what some think, very good 2nd half of last year and I think he lost the weak link in Rachunek.

What the plan seems to be is to have a real Powerplay specialist to play on the point with Jagr. The idea being, yea to set up and blast, but even more so to gain Jagr more room to spin his magic.

Teams just key in on himm whenever he's on the ice. Double team him , shadow him. Even on the PP everyone knows Jagr is the the likely triggerman. Shanny helped some but they didnt exactly play a whole lot of PP time together.

Souray on the PP is a WICKED WICKED weapon. His shot is almost too hard to believe. He cannot be taken lightly. He can score on you with that shot, he can HURT you with that shot. Goaltenders DO NOT want to face a PP with Jaromir Jagr at one cirlcle and Sheldon Souray at the other point, Add a possible Shanahan and Drury

On paper that is a pretty awesome powerplay unit. The PP goes through Jagr but he has made no secret the team searches for that BIg D man to join the team.

Jagr has won the cups , granted a few years ago, and he knows what a winnng team looks like in his head, experience.

Mmmm and who was the D man on the PP of those Pens teams?

Who played the PP on Shanahans teams in Detroit?

How about on Gomez cup winning teams in NJ?

It's the missing piece.

There are better guys than Souray...but they are not currently UFA

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07-06-2007, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NYRchick View Post
I just don't get this whole Souray thing.Yes,they need a d-man,but they need a d-man that can actually play D! They won't have trouble scoring goals next year.
Thats the fear...and an understandable one. They had trouble scoring goals last year. Our D was amazing.

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07-06-2007, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
My hesitation is that I have not seen him play enough. Is his defense that bad?
He's a LIFETIME -27

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07-06-2007, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
Thats the fear...and an understandable one. They had trouble scoring goals last year. Our D was amazing.
I think their fear should be keeping pucks out of their net,not putting pucks into the opposing net. Hank can't do it all by himself. I wouldn't call last year's D amazing. They were adequate,but hardly imposing. THAT'S what they need. An imposing,shut you down,take no ***** d-man.I'm sorry,Malik might be big,but he's hardly imposing.

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07-06-2007, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
I think the hunt for the BIG Dman has them stumped.

Souray likely is wanting to come here and giving the Rangers ample time to make it work. But how long is is he expected to wait?

They surely have a plan B too. Jovo, Gonchar, Boyle, Visnovsky are all going to require financial commitments AND players going the other way. Talented players.

Its no secret the Rangers want a big pp qb d man.
yea lets trade dubinsky and other prospects for jovo, boyle, McCabe, Kubina and gonchar. Id rather sign a 3rd pair guy like Vaananen or Vishnevski or LET STAAL PLAY, than make a trade that will include prospects or high picks.

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07-06-2007, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by NYRchick View Post
I think their fear should be keeping pucks out of their net,not putting pucks into the opposing net. Hank can't do it all by himself. I wouldn't call last year's D amazing. They were adequate,but hardly imposing. THAT'S what they need. An imposing,shut you down,take no ***** d-man.I'm sorry,Malik might be big,but he's hardly imposing.
I hear ya but Rennys system is a team system ...team D and they were amazing 2nd half last year. The GAA stats are astounding and you're right Henrik doesnt do it alone. Henrik also cant be counted on to score goals.

To be honest Jagr was a step slower, as was Shanny, Straka bicep, Nylanders flu. We could point to a lot of things that "perhaps" threw the offense off but it all ends up the same

They need more Offensive threats than Jagr and Shanny.

1. Players have to step up

2. The trigger man maybe shouldnt be the QB on the PP

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07-06-2007, 09:40 PM
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yea lets trade dubinsky and other prospects for jovo, boyle, McCabe, Kubina and gonchar. Id rather sign a 3rd pair guy like Vaananen or Vishnevski or LET STAAL PLAY, than make a trade that will include prospects or high picks.

I agree with you. Although Gonchar I would be happy about. Not that the Pens are trading him to NYR. Not by a loooooooong shot

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07-06-2007, 09:41 PM
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[QUOTE=cycleandshoot;9841084]
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRchick View Post
I think their fear should be keeping pucks out of their net,not putting pucks into the opposing net. Hank can't do it all by himself. I wouldn't call last year's D amazing. They were adequate,but hardly imposing. THAT'S what they need. An imposing,shut you down,take no ***** d-man.I'm sorry,Malik might be big,but he's hardly imposing.[/QUOTEI hear ya but Rennys system is a team system ...team D and they were amazing 2nd half last year. The GAA stats are astounding and you're right Henrik doesnt do it alone. Henrik also cant be counted on to score goals.

To be honest Jagr was a step slower, as was Shanny, Straka bicep, Nylanders flu. We could point to a lot of things that "perhaps" threw the offense off but it all ends up the same

They need more Offensive threats than Jagr and Shanny.

1. Players have to step up

2. The trigger man maybe shouldnt be the QB on the PP
I doubt Drury and Gomez are slouches in the goal scoring dept. It's not as if Jagr and Shanny will be their only scoring threats. This team will be a well-balanced,scoring team,if healthy. They won't have to count on Jagr scoring 52 like he did 2 years ago.

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07-06-2007, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebn View Post
Guys I don't see how you can get Souray. We have after Prucha signing something like 7.87 million for Lunqvist Avery Shanahan and Hossa. I don't know how they are going to fit those guys under the cap never mind get Souray. Even if they move Malik Souray would have to fit in his salary structure which would be a problem.

I got the numbers from nhlnumbers.com.

Straka Gomez Jagr
Avery Drury Shanahan
Prucha Cullen Callahan
Hossa Betts Holweg
Orr

Roszival Malik Lungvist
Mara Staal Montoya
Tyutin Girardi

Shanahan Lunqvist Avery Hossa have to be signed with 7.87 million.
Or otherwise I am wrong about the cap hit.
Have to take out Kaspar's cap hit.

The Rangers had about 13 million when taken into consideration that Kaspar is going to be sent to the minors. 11.5 for the King, Shanny and Avery and it there's anything left over, Hossa

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07-06-2007, 09:47 PM
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[QUOTE=NYRchick;9841116]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post

I doubt Drury and Gomez are slouches in the goal scoring dept. It's not as if Jagr and Shanny will be their only scoring threats. This team will be a well-balanced,scoring team,if healthy. They won't have to count on Jagr scoring 52 like he did 2 years ago.
Gomez is a pass 1st kinda guy

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