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why is micheal ryder not mentioned for the Calder

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01-02-2004, 08:02 AM
  #26
CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zednik20

Right now, I'd go:
1) Hunter
2) Pitkanen
3) Ryder

I keep flipping back and forth between Pitkanen and Hunter.Both have played well.

If both keep producing,avoiding any longterm slump,I think I'd have to go with the d-man.

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01-02-2004, 08:13 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I keep flipping back and forth between Pitkanen and Hunter.Both have played well.

If both keep producing,avoiding any longterm slump,I think I'd have to go with the d-man.
Pitkanen is very good, plays with lots of poise. I haven't seen a lot of Hunter-- need to check out some Islander games...

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01-02-2004, 08:23 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
Agreed the kid is a future norris trophy winner!
The next Lidstrom!
Not the next Lidstrom. Just Joni Pitkanen. The guy is going to be an excellent defenseman for many many years.

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01-02-2004, 08:42 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
Was he projected to make the team.
I can say I was projecting it as I was always pretty high on him (for his character and work ethic mostly) but also because he would have had to clear waivers if he did not make the team and with his breakout year in the AHL, he would likely have been picked up.

I thought he would fill a checking line role for most of the year as he's good defensively and physical on top of that. But his offensive game combined with the lack of offense up front in Montreal forced coach Julien's hand to use him on an offensive line.

I can say that not many fans even knew who he was before that season, so I feel pretty safe to say him making the team while other very hyped prospects like Perezhogin and Komisarek did not was a surprise for most fans and Montreal media.

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01-02-2004, 02:25 PM
  #30
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I keep hoping that other GMs would learn from this and actually keep some kids down in the farm system until they are ready, rather than throwing them to the wolves and hoping they can deal with eveything. It's taken a while but the Habs are going back to the old ways of running a team with patience and it's nice to see it pay off.

And as impressive as Pitkanen has been, I have my doubts that a defenceman will win the ROY two years running. He is the most deserving right now, but the voting process isn't the best.

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01-02-2004, 03:29 PM
  #31
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So now..that Ryder has been mentioned here...why do you think he is better than Bergeron?

39 games 9 goals 13 assists = 22 points.

Unbelievable mature for kid who turned 18 in July and is the youngest player in the NHL. He is smart and responsible on both sides of the ice.

He is not a leech and many of this points came from playing on the 3rd line and on the second with Lapointe.

I am not sure if he can win ROY but don't see why he is #4 after Ryder.


Last edited by BruinsGirl: 01-02-2004 at 03:42 PM.
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Old
01-04-2004, 03:51 PM
  #32
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Well Ryder has 26 points now with his 3 points game today, 2 goals and 1 assist.

The only rookie that deserves this more than Ryder right now is Pitkanen.

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01-04-2004, 03:57 PM
  #33
BruinsGirl
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Well after yesterdays B's - Isles game Bergeron and Hunter added 1 more goal each...but this is not the end of the season right?

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01-04-2004, 04:12 PM
  #34
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Today Ryder added 3 points and yesterday 2 points

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01-04-2004, 04:17 PM
  #35
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It's going to come down to Ryder, Hunter and Bergeron.

I'd say Hunter's got the best shot with Yashin and Parrish out of the lineup. If he keeps scoring and the Isles make the final 16 dance, the award goes to him for "keeping them in the playoff race." A la Barret Jackman...

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Old
01-04-2004, 04:18 PM
  #36
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How can you discard Pitkanen that easily while right now, he'd probably be the one to win it?

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01-04-2004, 04:19 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
Today Ryder added 3 points and yesterday 2 points

Again...Is today the end of regular season? Why are we talking about ROY now?

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01-04-2004, 04:20 PM
  #38
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Having seen both Pitkanen and Hunter and though I am an Islander fan I'm going to give a more than slight edge to Hunter for the following reasons:

1. Probably will get 55-60 points, which is usually good enough for a forward to win the award.
2. Has played on EVERY single line for the Islanders and contributed on all of them.
3. Supplanted MArk Parrish on the 2nd line.
4. 5 game winning goals.
5. Makes the players he plays with better, which is somewhat ridiculous given his limited NHL experience.
6. Has developed a little bit of speed but possesses excellent lateral movement.
7. Can shoot and will shoot from anywhere.
8. Developed into a forechecker and backchecker, which was a knock against him in the minors.
9. Fantastic wrist shot and can get most one-timers on net; he's a natural goalscorer.

Throughly believe he will wind up a 30-30 player with the ability to get 40. I also thoroughly believe that Pitkanen will become the superior player, but my vote (if I had one) for the Calder would be for Hunter.

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01-04-2004, 04:25 PM
  #39
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having seen pitkanen and hunter, i'd give it to pitkanen. he's playing a much tougher position, and playing it pretty damn well.
also, i'd give bergeron the edge over hunter b/c the kid is 18 and is arguably boston's best player almost every night.
raycroft too- for now. if he continues to play this well, he'd get the edge over hunter since a goalie makes a much more significant contribution to a team.
so from my chair, i see hunter as being lucky to crack the top 3. also, let's see him keep it up.

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Old
01-04-2004, 04:30 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neelynugs
having seen pitkanen and hunter, i'd give it to pitkanen. he's playing a much tougher position, and playing it pretty damn well.
also, i'd give bergeron the edge over hunter b/c the kid is 18 and is arguably boston's best player almost every night.
raycroft too- for now. if he continues to play this well, he'd get the edge over hunter since a goalie makes a much more significant contribution to a team.
so from my chair, i see hunter as being lucky to crack the top 3. also, let's see him keep it up.
Exactly, Pitkanen is playing a harder position too.

But he's becoming one of the most valuable flyers D-man. He's +7, got 4 goals and 11 assists and plays 20 minutes a game already.

Very impressive.

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01-05-2004, 02:32 AM
  #41
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Statistically, the edge obviously goes to Hunter, as he's done the most with the time he's had:
Ryder - 40 games - 15:20 ATOI - .65 points per game - +4
Bergeron - 40 games - 15:23 ATOI - .575 points per game - -2
Hunter - 34 games - 14:43 ATOI - .735 points per game - +10

Watching the two go head to head, Bergeron had prettier moves, but Hunter was more involved in the game. At one point, Hunter drew all 5 B's to him, and still got the puck deep into the Bruins zone, and then laid a hit in deep to jar the puck loose. Only time I noticed Bergeron was when he was streaking down the wing and when he scored.

As far as Pitkanen goes, he's scored 10 of his 15 points on the powerplay, and Philly is number one on the powerplay. Doesn't tell me much about him as a whole player. He'll need better stats, since Jackman won by playing by himself. Pitkanen is just part of Philly's superstar lineup right now. I think Seidenberg might have the same results.

Simply put, of the four, only Ryder and Hunter aren't surrounded by superstars. I view their first year production more favorably, and Hunter has a more complete playing package than Ryder.

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01-05-2004, 04:23 AM
  #42
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Pitkanen is making big plays on a team that is tied for the conference lead. As for the PP, he is probably the biggest reason why it's the best in the league.

Flyers 02-03: 82 games, 47 PP goals, 14.3%, 21st in the league.
Flyers 03-04: 40 games, 37 PP goals, 24.2%, 1st in the league.

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01-05-2004, 04:31 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
Simply put, of the four, only Ryder and Hunter aren't surrounded by superstars. I view their first year production more favorably, and Hunter has a more complete playing package than Ryder.
What leads you to think Hunter has a more complete package than Ryder? Just curious.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say Bergeron's been surrounded by superstars. He's been getting some good PP time, but from what I've seen he's mostly been paired with Lapointe up front.

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01-05-2004, 04:47 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
What leads you to think Hunter has a more complete package than Ryder? Just curious.
After watching Ryder, I haven't seen the physical edge that Hunter brings to the game, as well as the scoring skill (Ryder seems like more of a playmaker, which is something Hunter excels at, in addition to his scoring). Has he shown those skills often and I haven't seen those games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike8
Also, I don't think it's fair to say Bergeron's been surrounded by superstars. He's been getting some good PP time, but from what I've seen he's mostly been paired with Lapointe up front.
Its not simply about who is on your line.
If you have a line on your team that features Joe Thornton and Glen Murray, odds are, your line won't face the other team's best defense. They will. Which makes things easier for you.


Last edited by DarkHorse: 01-05-2004 at 04:51 AM. Reason: answered both topics
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Old
01-05-2004, 05:36 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
After watching Ryder, I haven't seen the physical edge that Hunter brings to the game, as well as the scoring skill (Ryder seems like more of a playmaker, which is something Hunter excels at, in addition to his scoring). Has he shown those skills often and I haven't seen those games?
This is ironic given the fact that Hab fans have been saying Ryder and Zednik can't play on the same line since they're both shooters first and foremost, and neither pass the puck enough. I agree more with you though: Ryder's got some slick passing skills, but he's a good shooter too. Great release and better accuracy than Zednik. Ryder's on pace for 200+ shots this season which ain't bad at all, and he's been developing his passing and puckhandling skills every game.

Now he was projected to be a mucker and grinder at best in the NHL. That should give you a good indication as to what his skills were: big, solid guy, deceptive skills but he's at his best in the corners and doing board work. Ryder has a lot of natural strength and at this point, there's not a real flaw in his game. He's strong along the boards, solid defensively (though still some improvement needed, he's not a liability), protects the puck extremely well, good shooter, underrated passing abilities. He's been Montreal's second most potent offensive threat behind Koivu.

The most promising aspect of Ryder's game though has been the fact that he's always looking for an opportunity. If he doesn't have the puck in the offensive zone, he'll sit in the crease, or he'll keep his feet moving to find some open space to receive a pass and get a quick shot on goal.

Long story short: Ryder's all-around game is his strength. I haven't seen enough of Hunter this year to say who's better, and there's still lots of hockey left, but I'd say there isn't much of a gap between the two of them.

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Old
01-05-2004, 06:27 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
Statistically, the edge obviously goes to Hunter, as he's done the most with the time he's had:
Ryder - 40 games - 15:20 ATOI - .65 points per game - +4
Bergeron - 40 games - 15:23 ATOI - .575 points per game - -2
Hunter - 34 games - 14:43 ATOI - .735 points per game - +10

Watching the two go head to head, Bergeron had prettier moves, but Hunter was more involved in the game. At one point, Hunter drew all 5 B's to him, and still got the puck deep into the Bruins zone, and then laid a hit in deep to jar the puck loose. Only time I noticed Bergeron was when he was streaking down the wing and when he scored.

Simply put, of the four, only Ryder and Hunter aren't surrounded by superstars. I view their first year production more favorably, and Hunter has a more complete playing package than Ryder.
Don't you think Yashin and Peca aren't that bad themselves...OTOH Thornton/Murray have't been dominating this year to the point they were split!!! It's also funny that Patrice was more noticable that either of them on most nights.

I liked what I've seen from Rider yesterday(Wash) specially on the second goal...

I believe Bergeron's production will increase tremendously if he returns to the third line.(ice time doesn't really matter) He had great chemistry playing with Axelsson and Rolston.


Last edited by BruinsGirl: 01-05-2004 at 06:30 AM.
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Old
01-05-2004, 09:44 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
Exactly, Pitkanen is playing a harder position too.

But he's becoming one of the most valuable flyers D-man. He's +7, got 4 goals and 11 assists and plays 20 minutes a game already.

Very impressive.
I am an Islander fan, for starters.

Take that for what you will when I say this:

So long as Pitkanen or Hunter wins the award at this point, "the right guy" definitely won the award. If it's not one of these guys, then I will be doing a triple-take at the poll results, and sue the writers for whiplash. Both are far more deserving than their other constituents. Give me Pitkanen or Hunter.

For the record, I am absolutely AMAZED at how good Hunter looks this year. He is absolutely fearless. During the Maple Leafs game in which they had their unbeaten streak snapped, I was talking to a Leafs fan and we both agreed that besides Trent Hunter, no one was really breaking the Leafs box. Hunter, we both agreed, was doing more than just break the box, he was moving through double teams like they weren't even there. He generated five quality scoring chances in the first two periods of that game, by my account, just by breaking double teams and putting one of his wristers on net. If Belfour didn't play so good he would've had a hat trick.

Speaking of Pitkanen. I am absolutely AMAZED at how well he is playing also. Makes you forget about Jay Bouwmeester.

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Old
01-10-2004, 10:31 AM
  #48
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Half way through the Pens vs Habs game Ryder has 1 goal and 2 assists. He's now at 30 pts this season and 9 pts in his last 5 games up to now.

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Old
01-10-2004, 11:12 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
Half way through the Pens vs Habs game Ryder has 1 goal and 2 assists. He's now at 30 pts this season and 9 pts in his last 5 games up to now.
Make that 2 goals, 2 assists early in the 3rd.

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01-10-2004, 11:15 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy
Make that 2 goals, 2 assists early in the 3rd.
Yep, 31 points. Ryder now tied for most points on the Habs with Ribeiro (1g, 1a today) and Souray (5 assists today)

NM, Souray just scored, 6 points today! wow

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