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Old
07-07-2007, 12:17 PM
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BobMarleyNYR
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The big picture/our management

Impressed with Sather. Yeah, OK, he's pulled out superhuman stops in the last 2 1/2 years. We now have a one-two punch not far behind that of PIT and TB and SJ. The unfortunate thing is that I don't think much bargaining went on (especially in the case of Drury) who I think we should've given 5.5. Great signings. Cup team. Way too much.

Sather has proven to be a very smart GM (being head of an NY franchise obviously helps), so he's got to be seriously in the trading market. I say that assuming the organization wants to bring back Shanahan, Avery and even Hossa (Renney's influence). Lundqvist, we can already count as at least a $5M cap hit.

With 9.8M (is that correct?) in reserve, we probably can't afford the two RFAs and Shanny when the Lundqvist deal is over... we've all said Cullen, Malik and Mara (all of whom I am a fan) ARE overpaid for their roles/styles/tendency to blunders. I agree. But all are integral components. I agree again.

I just can't imagine Sather or Renney believe this D can win a cup. Close but no cigar, I think. Rozsival is our best, most-complete defenseman. So we need an upgrade, Jagr even said it. But could Jagr, Straka, Prucha and Rozsival perform the same without him?

Souray is New York-or-bust. Good addition, IMO, but a HUGE pricetag and a superstar complex, no doubt. Back to the future?

Is Valiquette the guy we want for a month or more if/when Lundqvist strains his groin, or, god-forbid, tears a knee ligament? There's Hedberg, Esche, Aebischer...

That's the goings-on as I perceive them; a lot is redundant, I'm sorry. Maybe you guys could answer some of my questions.

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07-07-2007, 12:36 PM
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TheZherdev
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Souray is a great addition for a team that is already strong on defense. Rangers are an offensive loaded club we dont need and all star goal scoring defenseman, we need a d-man who can stop players in their tracks.

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07-07-2007, 12:42 PM
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Carlos Ranger
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Originally Posted by Blackburn2727 View Post
Souray is a great addition for a team that is already strong on defense. Rangers are an offensive loaded club we dont need and all star goal scoring defenseman, we need a d-man who can stop players in their tracks.
By that logic, Kaspar should get another shot before we consider Souray.

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07-07-2007, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by God Is Avery View Post
By that logic, Kaspar should get another shot before we consider Souray.
How do you get that? I would have thought that it was a given that the "d-man who can stop players in their tracks" would need to be able to play at the NHL level. Does he really need to qualify that?

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07-07-2007, 12:49 PM
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There is a reason Kasper does not play for the rangers anymore, he cannot compete at the level his salary dictates...therefore he is more helpful by not counting vs the cap.

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07-07-2007, 12:51 PM
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There is a reason Kasper does not play for the rangers anymore, he cannot compete at the level his salary dictates...therefore he is more helpful by not counting vs the cap.
He can't compete at this level regardless of what his salary is.

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07-07-2007, 01:35 PM
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You are already complaining about a guy's salary (Soray) that hasn't even been signed by the Rangers and a roster cap thats is still three months away from the drop of the puck.

Let's let everything else play out, all the signings to go down and any trades to happen before we start to comment on the 07-08 roster.

There is a long way to go before we see what this actual team will look like.

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07-07-2007, 01:54 PM
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Hockey's FUTURE message board.

The future is all about speculation, which is hypothetical. Most people don't take speculation too seriously, so why not talk about it?

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07-07-2007, 02:20 PM
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Inferno
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i have been happy with management prior to the drury and gomez signings. they augmented the kids with smart, decisive short-term contracts. they always seemed to have their eyes set on building a dynasty rather than building a 1-hit wonder, by signing crippling long term contracts to guys undeserving of the money.

this year however, i am greatly disappointed in what i have seen, and it hasnt taken long for those contracts to screw us in terms of locking up more important players.

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07-07-2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
i have been happy with management prior to the drury and gomez signings. they augmented the kids with smart, decisive short-term contracts. they always seemed to have their eyes set on building a dynasty rather than building a 1-hit wonder, by signing crippling long term contracts to guys undeserving of the money.

this year however, i am greatly disappointed in what i have seen, and it hasnt taken long for those contracts to screw us in terms of locking up more important players.
At the moment, easy does it, we have not lost anyone yet. Hank will sign and get a decent contract. Avery and Shanny will be on board before long and Hossa will more than likely also be coming back. I agree with most that we really could use a big D-man to clear the crease but at the moment I don't that guy out there.

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07-07-2007, 03:25 PM
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At the moment, easy does it, we have not lost anyone yet. Hank will sign and get a decent contract. Avery and Shanny will be on board before long and Hossa will more than likely also be coming back. I agree with most that we really could use a big D-man to clear the crease but at the moment I don't that guy out there.

Markov,perhaps?

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07-07-2007, 03:29 PM
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Flipside of the coin, and I agree with that also. BUT, it makes us much stronger and only takes Drury and Gomez to ages 35 and 34 respectively. They're not no-trade deals are they?

To me it seems a bit frivolous and impulsive. There was some showboating on the part of our management. D is/was not as big of a problem as C, but, assuming AT LEAST Lundqvist and Avery are in the cards, now we have no chance of getting a no. 1 guy unless we dump salaries. And I'd like a better back-up.

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07-07-2007, 03:41 PM
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i am seriously wondering why everyone is saying the 2 contracts are crippling? unless the player have full no movement clauses then i dont see how they are especially if they are front loaded. the reason being that although their cap hits will remain consistent throughout the life of the contracts the actual $$ that the team owes will decrease across the life of it. what this means is that at the back stages of the contract they can either be traded or waived. now you may ask why anyone would pick them up on the back side of the contracts with such a high cap hit and the answer is simply that there will always be teams in the league who are not going to be near the salary cap and will be looking for good talent at fair prices. when these contracts hit the back end te cap hits will still be high but that would not affect a team not pushing the cap, the main thing would be the actual money one of those other teams would have to actually pay at as opposed to the actual cap hit. so say in 5 years a team like edm has sustantial cap space and needs a center, they could aquire a drury/gomez, could handle the full cap hit easily, and would only be actually paying the player a portion of the value of the cap hit since the contract was front loaded and the actual money that is owed to the playr in the final years is less then the cap hit

as long as there are no no movement clauses i think these are actually smart signings

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07-07-2007, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
i am seriously wondering why everyone is saying the 2 contracts are crippling? unless the player have full no movement clauses then i dont see how they are especially if they are front loaded. the reason being that although their cap hits will remain consistent throughout the life of the contracts the actual $$ that the team owes will decrease across the life of it. what this means is that at the back stages of the contract they can either be traded or waived. now you may ask why anyone would pick them up on the back side of the contracts with such a high cap hit and the answer is simply that there will always be teams in the league who are not going to be near the salary cap and will be looking for good talent at fair prices. when these contracts hit the back end te cap hits will still be high but that would not affect a team not pushing the cap, the main thing would be the actual money one of those other teams would have to actually pay at as opposed to the actual cap hit. so say in 5 years a team like edm has sustantial cap space and needs a center, they could aquire a drury/gomez, could handle the full cap hit easily, and would only be actually paying the player a portion of the value of the cap hit since the contract was front loaded and the actual money that is owed to the playr in the final years is less then the cap hit

as long as there are no no movement clauses i think these are actually smart signings

Drury, Full NMC, Gomez, Partial NTC

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07-07-2007, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Drury, Full NMC, Gomez, Partial NTC
If these guys play the way they do, you won't have any interest in trading either one of them.

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07-07-2007, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Drury, Full NMC, Gomez, Partial NTC
drurys is ledd of a big deal to me bc we know exactly what we are getting and its for a shorter time frame. as for gomez whats his terms? does he have a list of teams he can be traded to? really that wouldnt matter bc technically you could waive him

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07-07-2007, 03:55 PM
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If these guys play the way they do, you won't have any interest in trading either one of them.
agreed i honestly dont think we need to worry about this

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07-07-2007, 03:59 PM
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agreed i honestly dont think we need to worry about this
I'm stunned that we went out and got to really, really good players and people are upset because they can't be traded.

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07-07-2007, 04:01 PM
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It's not that,so much as it's the fact that it may hamper them as far as signing the RFA's,as well as getting the d-man they need,at least IMO

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07-07-2007, 04:09 PM
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It's not that,so much as it's the fact that it may hamper them as far as signing the RFA's,as well as getting the d-man they need,at least IMO
I'm not concerned about the D. They have at least 3 very good defense prospects who are ready or close to ready. And they did allow the second fewest goals in the Eastern conference last season.

They went out and two of the top three best centers (position that is a legitimate weakness of this team - both at the NHL level and in the system) out there on the FA market.

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07-07-2007, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
i have been happy with management prior to the drury and gomez signings. they augmented the kids with smart, decisive short-term contracts. they always seemed to have their eyes set on building a dynasty rather than building a 1-hit wonder, by signing crippling long term contracts to guys undeserving of the money.

this year however, i am greatly disappointed in what i have seen, and it hasnt taken long for those contracts to screw us in terms of locking up more important players.
Inferno....I'm not thrilled with what they signed these guys to....but the bottom line here is that Center has been an achilles heel for the Rangers....and grabbing Gomez and Drury has strengthened this team. Nylander played chicken and lost....its that simple, or we would probably be looking at one of the 2 and Nylander...which is what alot of us were hoping for...as it would have given us more flexibility financially, but I can't be upset at signing 2 under 30 UFA centers when our entire organization is lacking at that position!

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07-07-2007, 05:02 PM
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i'm also somewhat puzzled by all the pessimism. if the rangers do have to clear salary it will be involving lesser players.

just like with prospects, not all are going to make it or be as good as other no matter how much we like them. we can only hope the ones we let go are ones that won't bite us too much down the road if at all.

i'm sure the same will apply for our roster players. i personally like malik, mara, hossa and cullen for example. and i especially like them in their roles as of this very moment. but if one or more have to be moved then so be it. i'd like to think we'll survive with alternatives. that's business.


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Old
07-07-2007, 05:37 PM
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OK, no one signs players hoping to trade them. In a perfect world, you wouldn't need a no-trade clause but hockey players are not machines; they get injured, they get disghruntled, they wear down. It's important to have that avenue open.

Imagine Kaspar had a no-movement clause. That would be $3M warming the bench each night. The only way out would be to have a player waive it, in which case you'd scratch him on a nightly basis and you'd be playing a disgruntled extra when injuries happen.

I doubt that will happen with either, but you need to consider everything.

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07-07-2007, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
If these guys play the way they do, you won't have any interest in trading either one of them.
thats kinda where ive been with this whole thing....if these 2 guys even give you ~career years, they wont be worth the contracts they got unless we win the cup, their salaries are already severly hurting the rangers abilities to lock up more important players (imho avery and henrik are more important than gomez, maybe even drury).

next year we have what, shanny, straka, malik, and mara all coming off the books and wont be resigned (theoretically) but youd have to believe tyutin, and rozy would want raises, lets say the ~11 million dollars comes off the books, and the rangers have to hand out a total of 3 million dollars in various rangers who will be up for contract again, and lets assume the cap doesnt go up (keep in mind im ballparking everything here).

that means to fill in your top line left winger, your 2nd line right winger, your #2 defenseman, and your #5 defenseman all have to be replaced with approximately 8 million dollars.

chew on that for a while folks, and tell me again why signing 2 guys to insane contracts doesnt cripple the franchise for the forseeable future.

also :re winning w/ jagr. do you think he would be happy going into his final year as a ranger with 4 rookies on the team? i would think not.

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07-07-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
thats kinda where ive been with this whole thing....if these 2 guys even give you ~career years, they wont be worth the contracts they got unless we win the cup, their salaries are already severly hurting the rangers abilities to lock up more important players (imho avery and henrik are more important than gomez, maybe even drury).

next year we have what, shanny, straka, malik, and mara all coming off the books and wont be resigned (theoretically) but youd have to believe tyutin, and rozy would want raises, lets say the ~11 million dollars comes off the books, and the rangers have to hand out a total of 3 million dollars in various rangers who will be up for contract again, and lets assume the cap doesnt go up (keep in mind im ballparking everything here).

that means to fill in your top line left winger, your 2nd line right winger, your #2 defenseman, and your #5 defenseman all have to be replaced with approximately 8 million dollars.

chew on that for a while folks, and tell me again why signing 2 guys to insane contracts doesnt cripple the franchise for the forseeable future.

also :re winning w/ jagr. do you think he would be happy going into his final year as a ranger with 4 rookies on the team? i would think not.

with all due respect avery's not more important than drury or gomez, regardless of who's opinion you or anyone else gives. including myself.

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