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Why all the hate for Kariya?

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07-07-2007, 06:22 PM
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the_speedster
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Why all the hate for Kariya?

I truly don't understand the resentment SOME duck fans have for paul. The kid gave this team legitimacy when it'd previously been full of fourth liners and fighters (grimson??).

Unlike Diagle (and even pronger) he didn't give management ANY problems. They asked him to shoot more.. he worked on it... THey asked him to move to wing, he did. They asked him to help with marketing he did. So he got tired of the management lollygagging when it came to talent and left with teemu for COLOrado. It's not like he left for money(1.5million) This is the guy who kept getting hurt and having his team be too chicken to stand up.
Any fan who actually WATCHED paul play knows he brought it EVERY night, injured or not and for that he'll always have my respect. The duck changed owners/management and got lucky with players like lupul/getzlaf/penner etc... Unlike them, paul and teemu where ALONE with well meaning but poorly talented guys like Karpov, Karpam Kilger/Krieger etc? THey didn't have the hall of fame defense or even a decent 2nd line.. I for one would've been estatic to have him back and apparently he did visit anaheim so obviously the new management doesn't feel the same as the disgruntled ones out there..

I get it that fans are bitter whenever a superstar leaves, but in all honesty the early duck players and management let PK down so why shouldn't he have taken the chance to play with a team like the Avalanche? Name ONE player in NHL existence that would turn down the chance to play with Sakic/forsberg/blake/foote/bourque/hedjuk/tanguay/Roy??? PK will always be my favorite duck and the same goes for anyone who ever actualy watched the magic he (and later teemu showed for 8+yrs..


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07-07-2007, 06:43 PM
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People don't like Kariya as after the finals he said he'll comeback for less so we can also sign Selanne. They then both then went to the Avs. All the is to it.

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07-07-2007, 07:14 PM
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I'm a Ducks fan, not a Paul Kariya fan.

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07-07-2007, 07:14 PM
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So why don't you hate selanne

after all he's the guy who got more money in the move? PAul struck me as being selfless AGAIN when he took the lower amoun to teemu could get paid. The guy's a winner and will do any thing his team asks him in order to win but at a point (like bourque) you get tired of crappy management. Is this what a guy who changed from centre to wing, from paasser to shooter? who came back after being kiled by scott stevens and WON the game for his team? Name the ducks 2nd line that year pls? exactly.. why aren't all the slackers through the years as villified? Kilger's paid millions yet can't muster 10goals.. management can't attract a decent defenseman for years. Who should truly be villified? Why didn't the so called angry fans give this much venom to the slacker players or management?

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07-07-2007, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_speedster View Post
after all he's the guy who got more money in the move? PAul struck me as being selfless AGAIN when he took the lower amoun to teemu could get paid. The guy's a winner and will do any thing his team asks him in order to win but at a point (like bourque) you get tired of crappy management. Is this what a guy who changed from centre to wing, from paasser to shooter? who came back after being kiled by scott stevens and WON the game for his team? Name the ducks 2nd line that year pls? exactly.. why aren't all the slackers through the years as villified? Kilger's paid millions yet can't muster 10goals.. management can't attract a decent defenseman for years. Who should truly be villified? Why didn't the so called angry fans give this much venom to the slacker players or management?
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Originally Posted by the_speedster View Post
I truly don't understand the resentment SOME duck fans have for paul. The kid gave this team legitimacy when it'd previously been full of fourth liners and fighters (grimson??).

Unlike Diagle (and even pronger) he didn't give management ANY problems. They asked him to shoot more.. he worked on it... THey asked him to move to wing, he did. They asked him to help with marketing he did. So he got tired of the management lollygagging when it came to talent and left with teemu for COLOrado. It's not like he left for money(1.5million) This is the guy who kept getting hurt and having his team be too chicken to stand up.
Any fan who actually WATCHED paul play knows he brought it EVERY night, injured or not and for that he'll always have my respect. The duck changed owners/management and got lucky with players like lupul/getzlaf/penner etc... Unlike them, paul and teemu where ALONE with well meaning but poorly talented guys like Karpov, Karpam Kilger/Krieger etc? THey didn't have the hall of fame defense or even a decent 2nd line.. I for one would've been estatic to have him back and apparently he did visit anaheim so obviously the new management doesn't feel the same as the disgruntled ones out there..

I get it that fans are bitter whenever a superstar leaves, but in all honesty the early duck players and management let PK down so why shouldn't he have taken the chance to play with a team like the Avalanche? Name ONE player in NHL existence that would turn down the chance to play with Sakic/forsberg/blake/foote/bourque/hedjuk/tanguay/Roy??? PK will always be my favorite duck and the same goes for anyone who ever actualy watched the magic he (and later teemu showed for 8+yrs..
You forgot to add that the Ducks didn't tender him a qualifying offer in 2003.

Now, it can be debated whether or not he was worth the dollar amount that the qualifying offer was for ($10 million).....However, the simple act of not qualifying him is insulting. Not qualifying your team captain, after he helped lead you to the Stanley Cup Finals, is the equivalent to outright slapping him in the face. It is disrespectful and disloyal.

Strictly hypothetically speaking, could you imagine if Niedermayer was a RFA right now and was due a qualifying offer? How do you think he would feel if the Ducks told him that they weren't going to qualify him, after him taking them to the Finals? I bet he would feel pissed off at the organization. And that is Niedermayer, a guy who has only been in Anaheim for 2 seasons. Imagine how he would feel if he had been there for 10 seasons?

I don't blame Kariya one bit for leaving Anaheim. He didn't owe them any loyalty or whatever, since they were the ones who turned their backs on him first by not qualifying him.

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07-07-2007, 07:25 PM
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07-07-2007, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by the_speedster View Post
after all he's the guy who got more money in the move? PAul struck me as being selfless AGAIN when he took the lower amoun to teemu could get paid. The guy's a winner and will do any thing his team asks him in order to win but at a point (like bourque) you get tired of crappy management. Is this what a guy who changed from centre to wing, from paasser to shooter? who came back after being kiled by scott stevens and WON the game for his team? Name the ducks 2nd line that year pls? exactly.. why aren't all the slackers through the years as villified? Kilger's paid millions yet can't muster 10goals.. management can't attract a decent defenseman for years. Who should truly be villified? Why didn't the so called angry fans give this much venom to the slacker players or management?
What exactly makes Kariya a "winner?" What has he ever won where he was in a situation as the team leader? Surely not the Olympics or the NHL. He is a VERY GOOD second tier forward who generally lacks the ability to step up and contribute beyone a 40 foot slapper into the corner. He needs another top notch player to make him better.

The slacker players played up to their ability. Kariya should have made them better...

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07-07-2007, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by PuckGuy0218 View Post
You forgot to add that the Ducks didn't tender him a qualifying offer in 2003.

Now, it can be debated whether or not he was worth the dollar amount that the qualifying offer was for ($10 million).....However, the simple act of not qualifying him is insulting. Not qualifying your team captain, after he helped lead you to the Stanley Cup Finals, is the equivalent to outright slapping him in the face. It is disrespectful and disloyal.

Strictly hypothetically speaking, could you imagine if Niedermayer was a RFA right now and was due a qualifying offer? How do you think he would feel if the Ducks told him that they weren't going to qualify him, after him taking them to the Finals? I bet he would feel pissed off at the organization. And that is Niedermayer, a guy who has only been in Anaheim for 2 seasons. Imagine how he would feel if he had been there for 10 seasons?

I don't blame Kariya one bit for leaving Anaheim. He didn't owe them any loyalty or whatever, since they were the ones who turned their backs on him first by not qualifying him.
All Ducks fans are glad for him leaving as well. The big banner they hang up in the Ponda next season was won with heart, grit and intensity. Not perimeter players like Kariya.

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07-07-2007, 07:36 PM
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aside from the fact that he won the CHL player of the year ward as a tier 2 player, the Hobey baker as a freshman along with the NCAA title (after scoring the highest single season total ever), then carrying a team full of 4th liners (sorry teemu, guy and giggy) to the finals (did you even watch that year?) EVERY time the ducks were in the playoff he was their best palyer( save the crazy display by giggy in 2003). Like I said Bitter follwer-ons will go with the mob mentality and hate on him yet still can't produce one reason why

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07-07-2007, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by PuckGuy0218 View Post
You forgot to add that the Ducks didn't tender him a qualifying offer in 2003.

Now, it can be debated whether or not he was worth the dollar amount that the qualifying offer was for ($10 million).....However, the simple act of not qualifying him is insulting. Not qualifying your team captain, after he helped lead you to the Stanley Cup Finals, is the equivalent to outright slapping him in the face. It is disrespectful and disloyal.

Strictly hypothetically speaking, could you imagine if Niedermayer was a RFA right now and was due a qualifying offer? How do you think he would feel if the Ducks told him that they weren't going to qualify him, after him taking them to the Finals? I bet he would feel pissed off at the organization. And that is Niedermayer, a guy who has only been in Anaheim for 2 seasons. Imagine how he would feel if he had been there for 10 seasons?

I don't blame Kariya one bit for leaving Anaheim. He didn't owe them any loyalty or whatever, since they were the ones who turned their backs on him first by not qualifying him.
thanks for the reminder. I really don't get the fair weather fans with sort memories. It's not like the 1st and 2nd liners they pretend to love now won the stanly cup.. It was won on the backbones of quality 3rd and 4th liners (pahlsson, may hell even miller) the likes of which management didnt' have for most of paulie's carrier. Oh and don't make me even bring up the coaching... wilson?? ugh!

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07-07-2007, 07:53 PM
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This is going to be one of those threads isn't it.

For venom from slacker players, see Fedorov, Lupul, Sykora, and Friesen. Not as much venom as Kariya, but for good reason.

Kariya left through underanded tactics. The year he left he was not an unrestricted free agent. After 2003 he was an RFA. Meaning we should be able to re-sign him. But instead Kariya was not qualified and became an UFA.

Now supposedly Murray talked to Kariya, and said "hey would it be OK if we didn't qualify you so we can re-sign you for lower money so we could afford someone to help the team? It might even be Selanne." He was earning 10 million dollars that year, and we couldn't afford to add Selanne, who was making something like 6 million then. Murray said to the papers that they had a gentleman's agreement. Granted this is only Murray's side of the story, but I can't imagine him not tendering a qualifying offer if it weren't true.

So now unqualified Kariya bolts like 3 days later to Colorado. Not only that, his signing statement is "I picked this team because it's my best chance to win the Stanley Cup," despite the fact that we were in the finals the year before and were trying to take the final steps. Just days before he claimed that we were close and he would stay to win the Cup in Anaheim. And he didn't take less to be charitable. He took less and a 1 year deal because that made him an UFA again the next year. He took the maximum salary that made him an UFA.

In fact, his whole tenure with the Ducks, and through his career he's been all about money. Held out twice. Only take short term contracts. ***** himself out to the highest bidder each time.

If he was that miserable in Anaheim, then ask to be traded. I have absolutely no problem with that. We qualify him, he declines and becomes an RFA, and we trade his rights for something, anything. Instead he lies that he'll re-sign, stabs us in the back and leaves us with nothing.

And he did try way back when. But since Suter he became a perimeter player who didn't get his nose dirty or give his all. He wasn't really much of a factor in the 2003 playoffs.

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07-07-2007, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by PuckGuy0218 View Post
You forgot to add that the Ducks didn't tender him a qualifying offer in 2003.

Now, it can be debated whether or not he was worth the dollar amount that the qualifying offer was for ($10 million).....However, the simple act of not qualifying him is insulting. Not qualifying your team captain, after he helped lead you to the Stanley Cup Finals, is the equivalent to outright slapping him in the face. It is disrespectful and disloyal.
Helped lead us to the Finals? Are you kidding? The guy was a no-show for all but two or three games in the playoffs, and only 10 minutes in the Finals. I can name a half dozen guys who played FAR better than him in those playoffs. Fact is, even he himself said during that season that he was overpaid. And he told Murray he would be willing to take less to stay and bring in help ... but that required him to not receive a qualifying offer. Essentially, he lied in order to get free agency. And it was his lie that led to the team not qualifying him.

It's not like the Ducks cheaped out over the years either. They spent most of Kariya's tenure ranked 7th or 8th in payroll. Problem was, he was taking up 25% or more of it all on his own. While other stars on contenders were taking less money to help their teams acquire and retain quality players, Kariya was holding out for every last penny he could.

And the worst part about it is, for his last 3-4 seasons in Anaheim he basically quit paying the price that it takes to be a superstar. He had the ability to do it ... but because he kept signing short deals (he said in order to make sure he was always paid what he was worth, what a joke) he had to protect his health first and foremost. He had the Ducks over a barrel, made $71 million from them while not playing up to snuff for about half those years, and you want to say that it was the Ducks who insulted him? How insulting is it when a player demands to be paid like a top 3 player, but plays like a wuss to ensure he's healthy enough to keep making that salary, and then lies in order to bail out for greener pastures? It's like, the Avs were good enough to take a paycut for, but not the team that had been overpaying him all those years.

The best part, of course, is that the Ducks were rid of his waste of a salary slot. If they'd still been stuck with his big fat contract, they'd never have ended up where they are now, and they'd still be mired in mediocrity since they'd still be built around a soft cherrypicking perimeter player who backchecks once a month.

And the absolute funniest part about this is, I can remember when I really started to hate him with a fury ... it was back in '01, when the Ducks were stinking it up, and they were playing of all teams the Blues. He's out on the penalty kill, faceoff in the Ducks' zone, the puck is dropped, and Kariya takes off for center ice looking for a breakaway pass. Problem is, Blues controlled the puck, and scored immediately since they had the Ducks outnumbered badly. Kariya didn't even TRY to turn around and come back to the zone when he realized the pass wasn't coming. Now the Blues want him? You're welcome to that loser.

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07-07-2007, 08:03 PM
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I truly don't understand the resentment SOME duck fans have for paul. The kid gave this team legitimacy when it'd previously been full of fourth liners and fighters (grimson??).

Unlike Diagle (and even pronger) he didn't give management ANY problems. They asked him to shoot more.. he worked on it... THey asked him to move to wing, he did. They asked him to help with marketing he did. So he got tired of the management lollygagging when it came to talent and left with teemu for COLOrado. It's not like he left for money(1.5million) This is the guy who kept getting hurt and having his team be too chicken to stand up.
Any fan who actually WATCHED paul play knows he brought it EVERY night, injured or not and for that he'll always have my respect. The duck changed owners/management and got lucky with players like lupul/getzlaf/penner etc... Unlike them, paul and teemu where ALONE with well meaning but poorly talented guys like Karpov, Karpam Kilger/Krieger etc? THey didn't have the hall of fame defense or even a decent 2nd line.. I for one would've been estatic to have him back and apparently he did visit anaheim so obviously the new management doesn't feel the same as the disgruntled ones out there..

I get it that fans are bitter whenever a superstar leaves, but in all honesty the early duck players and management let PK down so why shouldn't he have taken the chance to play with a team like the Avalanche? Name ONE player in NHL existence that would turn down the chance to play with Sakic/forsberg/blake/foote/bourque/hedjuk/tanguay/Roy??? PK will always be my favorite duck and the same goes for anyone who ever actualy watched the magic he (and later teemu showed for 8+yrs..
Kariya was a good player for the Ducks until he started playing not to get hurt.His drive and speed disappeared as his salary went up,10m per.Reporters ,tv and radio play by play guys asked where Paul was during there playoff run,besides his 1 goal after being knocked out,his big moment.Then after lossing the 7th game of the Stanley Cup finals he says they could win it next year,he forgot to say ,with Colorado.Paul held out for more money.He is now a perimeter player for 6m a season.Why would Burke want him around the young guys,to show them how to hold out for more cash?

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07-07-2007, 08:11 PM
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Helped lead us to the Finals? Are you kidding? The guy was a no-show for all but two or three games in the playoffs, and only 10 minutes in the Finals. I can name a half dozen guys who played FAR better than him in those playoffs. Fact is, even he himself said during that season that he was overpaid. And he told Murray he would be willing to take less to stay and bring in help ... but that required him to not receive a qualifying offer. Essentially, he lied in order to get free agency. And it was his lie that led to the team not qualifying him.

It's not like the Ducks cheaped out over the years either. They spent most of Kariya's tenure ranked 7th or 8th in payroll. Problem was, he was taking up 25% or more of it all on his own. While other stars on contenders were taking less money to help their teams acquire and retain quality players, Kariya was holding out for every last penny he could.

And the worst part about it is, for his last 3-4 seasons in Anaheim he basically quit paying the price that it takes to be a superstar. He had the ability to do it ... but because he kept signing short deals (he said in order to make sure he was always paid what he was worth, what a joke) he had to protect his health first and foremost. He had the Ducks over a barrel, made $71 million from them while not playing up to snuff for about half those years, and you want to say that it was the Ducks who insulted him? How insulting is it when a player demands to be paid like a top 3 player, but plays like a wuss to ensure he's healthy enough to keep making that salary, and then lies in order to bail out for greener pastures? It's like, the Avs were good enough to take a paycut for, but not the team that had been overpaying him all those years.

The best part, of course, is that the Ducks were rid of his waste of a salary slot. If they'd still been stuck with his big fat contract, they'd never have ended up where they are now, and they'd still be mired in mediocrity since they'd still be built around a soft cherrypicking perimeter player who backchecks once a month.

And the absolute funniest part about this is, I can remember when I really started to hate him with a fury ... it was back in '01, when the Ducks were stinking it up, and they were playing of all teams the Blues. He's out on the penalty kill, faceoff in the Ducks' zone, the puck is dropped, and Kariya takes off for center ice looking for a breakaway pass. Problem is, Blues controlled the puck, and scored immediately since they had the Ducks outnumbered badly. Kariya didn't even TRY to turn around and come back to the zone when he realized the pass wasn't coming. Now the Blues want him? You're welcome to that loser.
Psh. You're just some bandwagon fan who doesn't know anything about the team. I mean, Kariya was on the penalty kill! That just shows how hard he works, and proves that he's AWESOME on defense too!!!11one1one!

Wow I can't think of an exact time when I started hating him. It was probably somewhere in the 2003 playoffs when he didn't show up game after game and we needed Rucchin and Leclerc to save our butts night after night. Although post 99 or so I had been getting increasingly aggravated with his play.

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07-07-2007, 08:23 PM
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thanks for the reminder. I really don't get the fair weather fans with sort memories. It's not like the 1st and 2nd liners they pretend to love now won the stanly cup.. It was won on the backbones of quality 3rd and 4th liners (pahlsson, may hell even miller) the likes of which management didnt' have for most of paulie's carrier. Oh and don't make me even bring up the coaching... wilson?? ugh!
Did you even watch the finals?I don`t think so.Kariya was so bad that in road games during the semi`s and finals that Mike Leclerc played with Sykora and Oates on the first line, not a knock against Mike ,who had a great playoff when he should not have played on a bad knee that shortend his career.

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07-07-2007, 08:26 PM
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he did what he could but I want to know how players stay with their orginally team

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07-07-2007, 08:27 PM
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Wow I can't think of an exact time when I started hating him.
I remember it so clearly because back then I couldn't get out to the games that often, seeing as how I lived on the East Coast. Then I come back and score tickets for a couple games, and I'm watching the whole team, undermanned, but busting their butts ... except for the guy making $10 mil a year. Just going through the motions.

Like you, I'd been getting annoyed with him in the prior two years, but that game brought it to a head. I turned to my friend after that one play on the kill, and he had this stunned look of, "did he really just do that?!?" And all I could think was, what a freaking waste of $10 million.

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It was probably somewhere in the 2003 playoffs when he didn't show up game after game and we needed Rucchin and Leclerc to save our butts night after night.
What was most frustrating is if he'd shown up, and I mean REALLY shown up in those Finals and not just for a couple shifts after getting knocked silly, we very probably would have won the Cup that year. But yeah, it was really disappointing that as the team went one series to the next, we kept waiting for Kariya to step up and he never did.

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07-07-2007, 08:28 PM
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and hes a little *****.

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07-07-2007, 08:29 PM
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thanks for the reminder. I really don't get the fair weather fans with sort memories. It's not like the 1st and 2nd liners they pretend to love now won the stanly cup.. It was won on the backbones of quality 3rd and 4th liners (pahlsson, may hell even miller) the likes of which management didnt' have for most of paulie's carrier. Oh and don't make me even bring up the coaching... wilson?? ugh!
I'm still trying to figure out how we won based on the backbone of drew miller. I don't recall seeing him during the regular season, then just one game during the MIN series, no games during the VAN and DET series, then two games against OTT.

That being said, I have high hopes for him, but to say that we won on the shoulders of a kid who played 3 games total...well..

that is pretty ridiculous.

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07-07-2007, 08:31 PM
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He wouldnt fit into Burke's style anyway. Bertuzzi will be a much better fit. Burkie will make sure of that.

He's going to get RUN OVER when he comes back here with the Blues.

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07-07-2007, 08:33 PM
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I think a really big reason why a lot of Ducks fan's (myself included) don't care much for Paul is not only cause he signed with Colorado, but because he said that he wanted to compete for a championship. We went to the stanley cup finals and all the way to game seven. We were arguably the top stanley cup contender, and he leaves for an extremely lower amount of money. He could have signed for the same here to a place that overpaid him for years, and that had trusted him.

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07-07-2007, 08:37 PM
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he did what he could but I want to know how players stay with their orginally team

???????

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07-07-2007, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by the_speedster View Post
I truly don't understand the resentment SOME duck fans have for paul. The kid gave this team legitimacy when it'd previously been full of fourth liners and fighters (grimson??).

Unlike Diagle (and even pronger) he didn't give management ANY problems. They asked him to shoot more.. he worked on it... THey asked him to move to wing, he did. They asked him to help with marketing he did. So he got tired of the management lollygagging when it came to talent and left with teemu for COLOrado. It's not like he left for money(1.5million) This is the guy who kept getting hurt and having his team be too chicken to stand up.
Any fan who actually WATCHED paul play knows he brought it EVERY night, injured or not and for that he'll always have my respect. The duck changed owners/management and got lucky with players like lupul/getzlaf/penner etc... Unlike them, paul and teemu where ALONE with well meaning but poorly talented guys like Karpov, Karpam Kilger/Krieger etc? THey didn't have the hall of fame defense or even a decent 2nd line.. I for one would've been estatic to have him back and apparently he did visit anaheim so obviously the new management doesn't feel the same as the disgruntled ones out there..

I get it that fans are bitter whenever a superstar leaves, but in all honesty the early duck players and management let PK down so why shouldn't he have taken the chance to play with a team like the Avalanche? Name ONE player in NHL existence that would turn down the chance to play with Sakic/forsberg/blake/foote/bourque/hedjuk/tanguay/Roy??? PK will always be my favorite duck and the same goes for anyone who ever actualy watched the magic he (and later teemu showed for 8+yrs..
bourque retired in '01 and Roy retired the year prior to the avs getting kariya and selanne. just thought you should know

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07-07-2007, 08:44 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman33 View Post
He wouldnt fit into Burke's style anyway. Bertuzzi will be a much better fit. Burkie will make sure of that.

He's going to get RUN OVER when he comes back here with the Blues.
or bertuzzi can suckerpunch him. [edited]


Last edited by Jerky Leclerc: 07-08-2007 at 01:57 AM.
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07-07-2007, 08:46 PM
  #25
Jeffler
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Because the fans don't realise how great Kariya is....

Only 3 players in the NHL come close to Paul as my favourite.

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