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Old
07-10-2007, 09:55 PM
  #101
Levitate
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Do yo really think the Rangers have the space to get Lundqvist and Avery under the cap at this point? The impression I'm getting is that all of the $4.5 mill Shanny got (a raise from last year? goddammit) goes against the cap figure for that the Rangers need to be under the cap limit on the first day of the season.

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07-10-2007, 09:58 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Do yo really think the Rangers have the space to get Lundqvist and Avery under the cap at this point? The impression I'm getting is that all of the $4.5 mill Shanny got (a raise from last year? goddammit) goes against the cap figure for that the Rangers need to be under the cap limit on the first day of the season.
Not true. $2.5MM base counts against cap. If bonuses are earned ($2.8MM) they can exceed cap but will have to be paid back from 2008-09 cap amount.

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07-10-2007, 10:00 PM
  #103
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Wait a second, so does Shanny's extra change count towards next season's cap number or some of it (10 game bonus) count as soon as he hits ten games?

I thought the extra 2.8 or so all counted to next year's cap with his base of 2.5 coming off the books?

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Old
07-10-2007, 10:03 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Wait a second, so does Shanny's extra change count towards next season's cap number or some of it (10 game bonus) count as soon as he hits ten games?

I thought the extra 2.8 or so all counted to next year's cap with his base of 2.5 coming off the books?
The bonuses only carry over to next season if they cause the Rangers to exceed the cap this year. If they fit under the cap, then they'll just count towards this years cap.

It's just that I was uncertain about whether or not they're counted as the part of the "starting" cap that the team has to be under when the season starts. Skimmed over that part somehow

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07-10-2007, 10:06 PM
  #105
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I'm getting the notion that sather will take Lundqvist to arbitration and try to get a miller like contract, and then repay him with 6.5-7 mil a year in january. The extra cost of the drury/gomez deals is that they will make lundqvist more expensive.

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07-10-2007, 10:07 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
The bonuses only carry over to next season if they cause the Rangers to exceed the cap this year. If they fit under the cap, then they'll just count towards this years cap.

It's just that I was uncertain about whether or not they're counted as the part of the "starting" cap that the team has to be under when the season starts. Skimmed over that part somehow
Well, the CBA can be illogical, but it would it make sense that the bonuses don't count against the cap in the beginning of the season because they haven't been earned yet.

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07-10-2007, 10:10 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
The bonuses only carry over to next season if they cause the Rangers to exceed the cap this year. If they fit under the cap, then they'll just count towards this years cap.

It's just that I was uncertain about whether or not they're counted as the part of the "starting" cap that the team has to be under when the season starts. Skimmed over that part somehow
Yeah but in terms of how much cap space you have to work with, you figure you only count the 2.5.

That means you'd have whatever that difference is to work with in the meantime. Yeah it'll count next season if you go to the limit, but you'll also have contracts coming off the books as well next season. So if you have $9million coming off next season, you accept the fact that it'll be more like $6 because of the bonuses.

It all really depends on what Lundqvist wants. If he's looking for $5million that it's doable, but if he essentially wants to be paid more than it'll be a problem. I don't think Avery will be a hard sign.

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07-10-2007, 10:19 PM
  #108
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The numbers we're seeing has Kaspar on the roster as 2.5 million, which is why it looks like we have only 6.3 mil left to spend. Kaspar is going to be in HFD, which means he doesn't count against the cap, so we really have almost 9 million, if I'm correct.

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07-10-2007, 10:29 PM
  #109
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according to my scientific method (roughly adding up the average numbers from nhlscap.com for the players who should be on the roster), it comes close to $43.267, not including Kaspar and including Shanny at 2.5, and Marc Staal at $826k. So actually it'd be a little less, since I also included Pock and Strudwick, and that's one too many D-men.

So, not a lot of wiggle room really.

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07-10-2007, 10:56 PM
  #110
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A little bit of wiggle room may be all that Sather needs.

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07-10-2007, 11:53 PM
  #111
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"The Rangers filed for arbitration with Lundqvist at least partly to keep other teams from signing him to an offer sheet. The Rangers would have to match such offers to keep him, which could give them salary-cap headaches. They have $5.6 million of cap room to work with."

from tonight's Shanny article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/11/sp...tml?ref=sports

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07-10-2007, 11:56 PM
  #112
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I really don't think Shanahan's salary is an overpayment. I mean it's pretty much on par with his old salary and it's pretty much dictated by the market. I mean Bill Guerin signed a two year $9 million contract and Shanny basically outperformed Guerin.

Besides, name a winger left on the market who can possibly replace his production at a cheaper cost? Heck, name a proven winger on our team who can replace his production on the second line. I'm just not talking about goals here. I'm talking about the entire package. Shanahan provided a mix of the intangibles and production. We don't have another winger who can do that.

On the subject of his contract creating problems for our cap, I think Strudwick's new contract was more bothersome. The contract seemed unnecessary considering that we have Girardi and Pock (Note: I'm still not sure it's a given that Stall will be on the team straight out of juniors). We have 6 defencemen and if we want a 7th, there are options in Hartford. I know Strudwick's contract is for under a mill, but we could have used that money and split it up between avery and Hossa. Given each of them a little raise and have enough left over to afford Lundquist at $5 mill (I think).

Also, if we need to get rid of a contract, I'd much prefer Avery. I don't think he is worth the 2 million to be honest. I know people will point out what he did for us last year, but I think we have another decent pest developing in Holleweg. I mean the dude was annoying enough to get clubbed in the head by Chris Simon for crying out loud.

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Old
07-10-2007, 11:57 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrage View Post
"The Rangers filed for arbitration with Lundqvist at least partly to keep other teams from signing him to an offer sheet. The Rangers would have to match such offers to keep him, which could give them salary-cap headaches. They have $5.6 million of cap room to work with."

from tonight's Shanny article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/11/sp...tml?ref=sports
That's a lot less than I thought...I was thinking more like $7.3 million. Well, this is going to be difficult. Lundqvist will almost certainly get around $4 million in arbitration and Avery should get $2 million or more.

Seems like a trade will have to be made.

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Old
07-11-2007, 12:10 AM
  #114
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Or Sather goes to arbitration, Lundqvist gets a Miller like contract and Avery gets a settlement as well.

Lundqvist signs a deal in January and we take a wait and see approach on Avery and find out whether we might have a legit 25 goal, 55 point second line player on our hands or a guy who was riding high on emotions last year and is a valuable (but better served) third line guy who scores closer to 15-20 goals.

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07-11-2007, 12:41 AM
  #115
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5.6m + what Kaspar is making, seems like the correct number in reality.

With the contract Ward and Miller got, Lundqvist atleast shouldn't get much more then 4m even per season. That leaves slats with about 4.6 to sign Avery and Hossa. That shouldn't be impossible, neither got good numbers, both could end up making less then 2m.

I don't think its far fetched that we get everyone signed and 1m left of wiggle room during the season.

I don't like that we are so close to the cap gooing into the season. Though thats life.

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Old
07-11-2007, 04:18 AM
  #116
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These players may love playing in New York for the Rangers but they certainly didn't play for free.When I saw the Shanahan figures,I spent five minutes trying to pick myself off the floor.Why did they give him more money than last season?

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07-11-2007, 07:46 AM
  #117
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I think it is the bonus $s that Shanny will be getting that make his signing odd

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07-11-2007, 07:48 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiting for Dubi View Post
That's a lot less than I thought...I was thinking more like $7.3 million. Well, this is going to be difficult. Lundqvist will almost certainly get around $4 million in arbitration and Avery should get $2 million or more.

Seems like a trade will have to be made.
I get $7.5 mil if you take out Shanahan's and Girardi's bonuses.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=399871

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07-11-2007, 10:08 AM
  #119
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Had you been paying attention to Ranger history, you'd note that the love affair NY has with Brendan shouldn't be surprising at all. Regardless (and make sure you also note regardless, because I'm sure it'll be your arguing point) of how many season's he's played here, the Rangers and their fans have always coveted players of the Shanahan mold.

Allow me to present Exhibit A
Just Rangers fans covet those types of players?

somebody prasing a 39 year old who the Rangers really don't NEED anymore resigning has been following Rangers history...

my argument (if you have been following) is the rangers don't need shanny and the cap space next season could be a big deal...

shannys leadership is the most overrated topic on this board since the whole "they ruined manny" debates..

name a player on the rangers that shanny needs to "lead"....honestly if the Rangers need shannys leadership this season with the talent and other voices in the room then the team is in major trouble...

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07-11-2007, 12:07 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Just Rangers fans covet those types of players?

somebody prasing a 39 year old who the Rangers really don't NEED anymore resigning has been following Rangers history...

my argument (if you have been following) is the rangers don't need shanny and the cap space next season could be a big deal...

shannys leadership is the most overrated topic on this board since the whole "they ruined manny" debates..

name a player on the rangers that shanny needs to "lead"....honestly if the Rangers need shannys leadership this season with the talent and other voices in the room then the team is in major trouble...
You couldn't be more RIGHT. $5 mill is a lot for a "leader". Beyond that point, what kind of leader puts his team in this kind of cap situation? I realize Ranger fans are of the 'shanny can do no wrong" crowd, but the reality is he wore down at the end of LAST year. Who was going to give him this kind of money? We didn't get a home town discount, we got a home town premium. If we end of trading an important piece like Cullen and Shanny has a sub-$5 mill yr, you can all join me in booing him to his retirement party. This contract is a selfish as it gets!

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07-11-2007, 12:12 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
You couldn't be more RIGHT. $5 mill is a lot for a "leader". Beyond that point, what kind of leader puts his team in this kind of cap situation? I realize Ranger fans are of the 'shanny can do no wrong" crowd, but the reality is he wore down at the end of LAST year. Who was going to give him this kind of money? We didn't get a home town discount, we got a home town premium. If we end of trading an important piece like Cullen and Shanny has a sub-$5 mill yr, you can all join me in booing him to his retirement party. This contract is a selfish as it gets!
Uh, the dude scored 30 goals in 67 games last year on the second line and had a very bad concussion.

He IS taking a gamble with that 2.8. Theres no guarantee hell play 10 games and make the playoffs.

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07-11-2007, 12:15 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
You couldn't be more RIGHT. $5 mill is a lot for a "leader". Beyond that point, what kind of leader puts his team in this kind of cap situation? I realize Ranger fans are of the 'shanny can do no wrong" crowd, but the reality is he wore down at the end of LAST year. Who was going to give him this kind of money? We didn't get a home town discount, we got a home town premium. If we end of trading an important piece like Cullen and Shanny has a sub-$5 mill yr, you can all join me in booing him to his retirement party. This contract is a selfish as it gets!

Indeed it is...and it's not something unusual for Captain Shanny...

ask the Devils fans how loyal shanny was?

ask the former whalers fans how loyal shanny was?

ask the red wing fans how loyal shanny was?

This isn't a hometown discount...Shanny can make more THIS YEAR THEN LAST YEAR!!!!!

The Rangers just don't need him....He is a luxary and at 39 his overrated "intangables" aside he had a dramitic downturn to his play after december...

Oh and here come the "he was overused posters" the "you don't apperciate blah blah blah posters? oh wait did i forget the "bu..bu..bu...but he fought brashear posters"

Great...and you know what...that was last season...That team stil had Jason Ward playing on the third line...had at times blair betts playing the 2nd line...this years team has DEPTH...the player blocking prucha from 2nd line minutes (funny the same posters that complain about pruchas time ALL want shanny to return..guess what guys that's the guy who is blocking prucha) is shanny.....



Shanny is a luxary plain and simple...and with how much the rangers have spent on other players its stupid to bring him back...especially when he is going to count towards next years cap....

but captain shanny...he is the best... what would the rangers be without him?

it's a joke...it's actually funny to read how pissed people get when you tell the truth about shanny....

in a salary cap you need to be careful who you overpay...shanny is overpaid and shouldnt' be here....but hey he is a great quote...seems like a nice guy...never says a bad thing...seems like he likes the fans...lets sign him...some fans...not all but some fans are out and out hypocrites when it comes to shanny..

he is a smaller version of curt schilling...actually that's a tad to harsh...


Last edited by Son of Steinbrenner: 07-11-2007 at 12:21 PM.
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Old
07-11-2007, 12:18 PM
  #123
HockeyBasedNYC
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I see your points.. but

What do you care SOS you arent paying the salary?

Next year the Cap is likely to go up and a number of salaries fall off including his.

What difference does it make what salary he has.
If you don't think he makes the team better than just say that.

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07-11-2007, 12:24 PM
  #124
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I see your points.. but

What do you care SOS you arent paying the salary?

Next year the Cap is likely to go up and a number of salaries fall off including his.

What difference does it make what salary he has.
If you don't think he makes the team better than just say that.
We don't know if next years cap is going to go up..its possible it goes down...what then? this team would be in shambles...

he makes the team marginally better.....after he got hurt last season the team didn't miss a beat...In a salary cap world you need to pay NEED players...with the depth the Rangers have througout the organization shanny isn't a NEED...he is a pr signing...

don't be fooled he came to new york because it's the media capital of the world..not out of loyalty..

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07-11-2007, 12:30 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
don't be fooled he came to new york because it's the media capital of the world..not out of loyalty..
The same could be said about Mark Messier.

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