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Old
07-11-2007, 08:40 PM
  #26
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He's a first line player but I think he's going to be on the second line this year. I think there going to go with the kid line as there number one line.

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07-11-2007, 08:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by luckoftheduck View Post
Everyone has said AndyMac isn't a number 1 center and you can continue to say that but in the words of Brian Burke, "meet me in the alley if you want to discuss AndyMac". He's clearly a #1. He nearly won the Conn Smythe without just feeding Selanne.
He had a good series. Not sure if he is a great #1 without Selanne. He is above average. The point is moot however because PPG is our #1 line anyway.

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07-11-2007, 11:34 PM
  #28
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Don't worry, I got it. Too long have I been gone.

So, yeah. Bertuzzi is one of the most overrated players in the history of the league. That's not my addition to the HF pantheon of hyperbole (although I guess it is if you disagree with me), that's just what I percieve as truth.

In 12 seasons he topped 20 goals just 5 times, breaking 30 only twice. He's only had more than 60 points 4 times in that span. And it's not like it's because he's a late bloomer, he seems to be more of a guy who's prime came and went in a flash. His playoff numbers are positively wretched - 21 points in 40 games, with just 9 goals.

Bertuzzi gained prominence because he had one elite season playing for a Canadian team. That's it. It was a confluence of his pea brain realizing what he could do with his size, and the magnificence of Naslund's playmaking abilities that created that season for him, and he has never come close to replicating it. He can't. It was a fluke. He's not a good player. He's a second line player with some major flaws in his game, most obviously his lack of hockey sense, and his inability to consistently apply a coach's gameplan.

He sucks. For $4M, he sucks huge, sweaty, donkey sweetmeats. This is the biggest mistake Burke has ever made, I'll wager.
Agreed all around. I absolutely hate this signing.

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07-12-2007, 01:05 AM
  #29
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What I find interesting about his stats is his +/-. Useless stat, blah blah blah, but just look at the interesting trend. Starting from his first full season in Vancouver he was

-6 -2 -18 21 2 21 -17 -1

Odd symmetry there. So that means this year he'll be about -6(while playing less than half the season) and then -17 the following season. There's something to look forward to! Of course the good news is if we re-sign him he'll only be -3 the next year.

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07-12-2007, 09:08 AM
  #30
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Agreed all around. I absolutely hate this signing.
I agree as well, with most of it anyways. There is SOMETHING to be said for his physical tools. His skill level and brute strength can't be denied, he's a very talented player and a very large man. I tend to steer clear of critiquing a guy's mental ability without having personal experience, but after talking to some people who were around him consistently as a junior and as a pro, I feel pretty confident in Captain's assessment of his hockey sense. He nailed it perfectly, he has not shown that he is able to consistently apply a coach's gameplan.

It's a very risky signing. I'll be plesantly surprised if he tops 30 goals. I'm hoping the Burke/Carlyle combo can get it out of him. He's in no way a replacement for Selanne, who not only scored 48 goals, but bought in and executed Carlyle's system as well as anyone, and provided the leadership and good-natured personality that the team could rally around.

I hope someone's making fun of these statements a year from now in a "looking back" thread.

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Old
07-12-2007, 12:10 PM
  #31
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OK first of all Teemu got 48 goals last year. Wow that's really good! Thanks for the great year, but there's no telling what he would have done this year. He could brake his hand and only get 15 goals. I'm telling you guys have more faith in bruke than this. He wouldn't sign Bert if he didn't think he was going to put the number's up. Maybe not 30 goals for him but I think he will still have 80+ points. Come on, a line with Kuntz, Andy, and Bert. That's a line, and that very will might be the second line.

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07-12-2007, 02:36 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bright Side View Post
Don't worry, I got it. Too long have I been gone.

So, yeah. Bertuzzi is one of the most overrated players in the history of the league. That's not my addition to the HF pantheon of hyperbole (although I guess it is if you disagree with me), that's just what I percieve as truth.

In 12 seasons he topped 20 goals just 5 times, breaking 30 only twice. He's only had more than 60 points 4 times in that span. And it's not like it's because he's a late bloomer, he seems to be more of a guy who's prime came and went in a flash. His playoff numbers are positively wretched - 21 points in 40 games, with just 9 goals.

Bertuzzi gained prominence because he had one elite season playing for a Canadian team. That's it. It was a confluence of his pea brain realizing what he could do with his size, and the magnificence of Naslund's playmaking abilities that created that season for him, and he has never come close to replicating it. He can't. It was a fluke. He's not a good player. He's a second line player with some major flaws in his game, most obviously his lack of hockey sense, and his inability to consistently apply a coach's gameplan.

He sucks. For $4M, he sucks huge, sweaty, donkey sweetmeats. This is the biggest mistake Burke has ever made, I'll wager.
Disagree, i absolutely like this signing. At 4 million, Big Bert has a lot of upside to earn his contract. He's a mean, physical guy that makes a perfect fit for our deep forward cycle we did a lot last year. Give him a chance, trust our coaching staff to motivate him.

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Old
07-12-2007, 02:46 PM
  #33
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He is neither physical nor mean. And at $4M guaranteed, I really don't see any potential for him to try and earn his contract. Players are human, and typically view contracts they sign as rewards for what they've already done, ie "this is what I'm worth."

He'll have his chance, it doesn't matter what I think. I'll be out of the country for most, if not all, of the coming season, so I'll have only whatever boxscores and highlights I can scrounge as evidence of his success or failure.

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07-12-2007, 03:57 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Captain Bright Side View Post
He is neither physical nor mean. And at $4M guaranteed, I really don't see any potential for him to try and earn his contract. Players are human, and typically view contracts they sign as rewards for what they've already done, ie "this is what I'm worth."

He'll have his chance, it doesn't matter what I think. I'll be out of the country for most, if not all, of the coming season, so I'll have only whatever boxscores and highlights I can scrounge as evidence of his success or failure.
As ducks fans, i hope he does fit in well. I am sure he can be physical and mean with the support of his teammates (as long as he dont do something stupid). Last year he was more timid and he had back issues too.

Re: going out of the country, i think google is supporting full games (like last year). I feel u, since i didnt have cable 2 to 3 years and it was a major bummer.

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07-12-2007, 04:36 PM
  #35
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Roman Oksiuta, Part 2.

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Old
07-13-2007, 01:20 PM
  #36
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Hahaha, gosh I get a kick out of the fans that think the team is going to be BETTER. Hell, even the ones who think they will be AS good. You can't replace Nied's, PERIOD. And Bert is hardley a replacement for Teemu. You'll be lucky to get half a season out of him.

Again, not saying the Ducks won't be good. There's still plenty of quality guys on the team. But it won't be the same as last year with the two stars out.

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Old
07-13-2007, 01:22 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Tlove* View Post
OK first of all Teemu got 48 goals last year. Wow that's really good! Thanks for the great year, but there's no telling what he would have done this year. He could brake his hand and only get 15 goals. I'm telling you guys have more faith in bruke than this. He wouldn't sign Bert if he didn't think he was going to put the number's up. Maybe not 30 goals for him but I think he will still have 80+ points. Come on, a line with Kuntz, Andy, and Bert. That's a line, and that very will might be the second line.
wow, throw a big slow goon on a line with two fast skaters, who normally would play with the speedy Finish Flash...I'm sure that line would work

And at 30 goals, he'd have to have 50 assists which he's only done once in his career. I doubt he'll come back from playing 15 games last season and have that kind of season again.

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07-13-2007, 02:34 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Rapid_i_movemenT View Post
Hahaha, gosh I get a kick out of the fans that think the team is going to be BETTER. Hell, even the ones who think they will be AS good. You can't replace Nied's, PERIOD. And Bert is hardley a replacement for Teemu. You'll be lucky to get half a season out of him.

Again, not saying the Ducks won't be good. There's still plenty of quality guys on the team. But it won't be the same as last year with the two stars out.
So far it's only tlove. No one else thinks they'll be better. He is being (to quite a ridiculous extent) oppimistic...

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Old
07-13-2007, 02:53 PM
  #39
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So far it's only tlove. No one else thinks they'll be better. He is being (to quite a ridiculous extent) oppimistic...
yeah I know, him and Citizen both are fun reads

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07-13-2007, 03:01 PM
  #40
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yeah I know, him and Citizen both are fun reads
Pretty pleased with the Sharks' offseason, are you?

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Old
07-13-2007, 06:30 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Captain Bright Side View Post
This is the biggest mistake Burke has ever made, I'll wager.
Well he did draft Bobby Ryan ahead of Jack Johnson...

Yea, you guys are pretty screwed regarding offense if Taymoo is gone. Last season, the forward offense ran through Selanne. Taymoo's speed meshed well with Kuntz and McDonald, and you had a killer line. And that allowed Penner-Getzlaf-Perry to be the #2 line it is.

Next season, however, will be way different. At best, Bertuzzi will net 25 goals and keep his mouth shut. At worst, he'll miss many games and/or score just 10-15 goals and be a locker room cancer. Any chemisty he'll have with Kunitz and McDonald will be purely accidental. And that'll put a strain on PPG to be a #1 line because they just aren't there.

I guess Carlyle could try rearanging the lines.

As for defense, losing Niedermayer will hurt. Schnieder is (to put it nicely) inferior in every way. And the depth certainly isn't there. Last season, when you had Prongermayer, it was okay to have Beuchamain as a #3. But with Schnieder instead of Scotty, it'll be a glaring weakness.

I guess we know why Burke made sure to sign Giguere.

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Old
07-13-2007, 06:32 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Tlove* View Post
OK first of all Teemu got 48 goals last year. Wow that's really good! Thanks for the great year, but there's no telling what he would have done this year. He could brake his hand and only get 15 goals. I'm telling you guys have more faith in bruke than this. He wouldn't sign Bert if he didn't think he was going to put the number's up. Maybe not 30 goals for him but I think he will still have 80+ points. Come on, a line with Kuntz, Andy, and Bert. That's a line, and that very will might be the second line.
He had a better season last season than he had the season before. Two great seasons like that don't suggest that he would fall apart next season.

Injuries are always a possibility, but to say that the Ducks are a better team because Teemu could get injured is just ridiculous.

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Old
07-13-2007, 06:36 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by KiteKiteKite View Post
Well he did draft Bobby Ryan ahead of Jack Johnson...

Yea, you guys are pretty screwed regarding offense if Taymoo is gone. Last season, the forward offense ran through Selanne. Taymoo's speed meshed well with Kuntz and McDonald, and you had a killer line. And that allowed Penner-Getzlaf-Perry to be the #2 line it is.

Next season, however, will be way different. At best, Bertuzzi will net 25 goals and keep his mouth shut. At worst, he'll miss many games and/or score just 10-15 goals and be a locker room cancer. Any chemisty he'll have with Kunitz and McDonald will be purely accidental. And that'll put a strain on PPG to be a #1 line because they just aren't there.

I guess Carlyle could try rearanging the lines.

As for defense, losing Niedermayer will hurt. Schnieder is (to put it nicely) inferior in every way. And the depth certainly isn't there. Last season, when you had Prongermayer, it was okay to have Beuchamain as a #3. But with Schnieder instead of Scotty, it'll be a glaring weakness.

I guess we know why Burke made sure to sign Giguere.
Just wow...

First off, Jack Johnson and Bobby Ryan are, as yet, both unproven. To say that it was a mistaken to draft Bobby Ryan over Jack Johnson is just silly. Seeing as how neither of them have proven themselves in the NHL it's quite ridiculous to already say one is better than the other.

Beauchemin is turning into a really good defenseman. You don't agree? Why did he have more minutes in the Stanley Cup Finals than both Pronger and Niedermayer? I can assure you, it wasn't because he was a liability. Right now Beauchemin is probably the best #3 defenseman in the league.

Burke signed Giguere because he's a great goaltender. Period.

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Old
07-13-2007, 06:37 PM
  #44
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Pretty pleased with the Sharks' offseason, are you?
Well we signed one of, if not THE, best players in the NHL to a killer deal. We didn't over spend in the UFA market so we can resign some of our young talent next season, and hopefully resign Marleau. Hell we didn't spend at all, but its still mid-july - still plenty of time to trade. We're WAY under the cap, so there's still room for possibilities.

So actually, after coming to terms with it all, I am ok with how things have panned out. Of course it could have been better.

But whats with you anyway, did I pinch a nerve?

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Old
07-13-2007, 06:55 PM
  #45
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That was great. And whats even better is I'm sure you beleive it. Please... if Dean Lombardi went up to Brian Burke and offered Jack for Ryan striaght up, Burke would get an instant woody. Jack is already an NHL defenseman. In his 5 games last season, he played about as well as you can expect a guy to play a week out of college. How many NHL games does Bobby Ryan have?

And do I need to point out that Burke also passed on a certain Slovenian?

He's pretty meh.
Wow, 5 games. You sure made your point there.

Bobby Ryan hasn't played in the NHL because it would stunt his growth, and he wasn't ready for the #2 or #1 line. It's really not a difficult concept. Anaheim had a lot of depth throughout their forward line last season, so how many minutes would Bobby Ryan see? Not enough, I can promise you. You don't hurt one of your best prospects by giving him only 5 minutes a game. That's just stupid. As for Kopitar, a lot of teams passed on him. He was drafted #11, afterall. The Kings got a gem in him, no doubt, but that doesn't make Bobby Ryan less of a player.

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07-13-2007, 06:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by KiteKiteKite View Post
That was great. And whats even better is I'm sure you beleive it. Please... if Dean Lombardi went up to Brian Burke and offered Jack for Ryan striaght up, Burke would get an instant woody. Jack is already an NHL defenseman. In his 5 games last season, he played about as well as you can expect a guy to play a week out of college. How many NHL games does Bobby Ryan have?

And do I need to point out that Burke also passed on a certain Slovenian?

He's pretty meh.
Beauchemin is meh?

How much of Bobby Ryan have you actually seen? If you are going to say that the Ducks organization made a mistake drafting Ryan instead of JJ then at least wait to see how Ryan will play in the NHL. Otherwise you have no argument.

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07-13-2007, 07:00 PM
  #47
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How many NHL games does Bobby Ryan have?
Being in a playoff chase, we couldn't afford to give time to prospects, let alone guys just out of college.

Quote:
And do I need to point out that Burke also passed on a certain Slovenian?
I like Anze, but I'm not ready to anoint him yet. He could still wind up a poor man's Hemsky.

Quote:
He's pretty meh.
Only on HFBoards is the guy who averaged the most ice time during the playoffs for the Stanley Cup champions, playing more than two Norris nominees, "pretty meh." You need to become re-acquainted with what good hockey is again, since you apparently don't recognize it.

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07-13-2007, 07:02 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by KiteKiteKite View Post
That was great. And whats even better is I'm sure you beleive it. Please... if Dean Lombardi went up to Brian Burke and offered Jack for Ryan striaght up, Burke would get an instant woody. Jack is already an NHL defenseman. In his 5 games last season, he played about as well as you can expect a guy to play a week out of college. How many NHL games does Bobby Ryan have?

And do I need to point out that Burke also passed on a certain Slovenian?

He's pretty meh.

When did he pass on Jan Mursak.

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Old
07-13-2007, 07:05 PM
  #49
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When did he pass on Jan Mursak.
Citizensaint is starting to use proper grammar, yay!

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Old
07-13-2007, 07:09 PM
  #50
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Yea, I'm sure that fourth year at Owen Sound really helped him. Lets see how his scoring improved.

05/06: 1.61 pts/gm
06/07: 1.62 pts/gm

Nice!
He would have been in Portland, but he was too young. In other words, there was no other options.

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