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Daily News/Raleigh News-Matt Cullen to the Canes?

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Old
07-12-2007, 08:59 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyChoice View Post
The Rangers wouldn't get anything decent back, just cap flexibility.
then it doesn't make sense to pull the trigger.

If the Rangers can get both Avery and Hossa signed, there's no need to move Cullen.

If what Larry Brooks stated was true (highly doubtful) about being able to push the bonus payment ot Shanny off until next year, we have no cap issues this year or next.

Never makes any sense to just give a player away.

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Old
07-12-2007, 09:03 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyChoice View Post
The Rangers wouldn't get anything decent back, just cap flexibility.
Isn't that the idea?

When the Rangers signed Gomez and Drury,Sather said the Rangers would not have to move any players for salary cap purposes.That was before Prucha got $1.6 million,Shanahan signed for his potential $5.3 million(with most/some of the bonuses counting in 08-09) and Lundqvist got $4.25 million.They still need to sign Avery and Hossa and have some flexibilty for the remainder of the season.Unless they intend on just using 20 players this season

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07-12-2007, 09:03 AM
  #53
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Buy reading this thread, I sometimes get the feeling that people treat building the Rangers as a EA hockey game. "Don't move Cullen, move Malik...", yeah, good luck with that.

Cullen's a nice player but if somebody from the 'Pack is ready to step up and be that 3rd line center, then by all means let's do it.

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07-12-2007, 09:04 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
then it doesn't make sense to pull the trigger.

If the Rangers can get both Avery and Hossa signed, there's no need to move Cullen.

If what Larry Brooks stated was true (highly doubtful) about being able to push the bonus payment ot Shanny off until next year, we have no cap issues this year or next.

Never makes any sense to just give a player away.
The bonuses can be pushed to 08-09

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07-12-2007, 09:05 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
then it doesn't make sense to pull the trigger.

If the Rangers can get both Avery and Hossa signed, there's no need to move Cullen.

If what Larry Brooks stated was true (highly doubtful) about being able to push the bonus payment ot Shanny off until next year, we have no cap issues this year or next.

Never makes any sense to just give a player away.
Who said he was being given away? Do you honestly think the guy who signed Drury and Gomez....the guy who got Jagr without a third of his salary for Anson Carter straight up...all of a sudden is going to send Cullen to the Canes for naything they want to offer? It's not going to go down like that if it does go down at all.

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07-12-2007, 09:07 AM
  #56
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Get a 2nd round pick, bring up Dubi or AA and call it a day.

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07-12-2007, 09:07 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Majoritystorm View Post
That and why are people so eager to get rid of Cullen? This guy is great in the third line with Prucha and Callahan providing us with a great forechecking line that can score and provide a ton of speed.
I hate it when people ask this question, like everyone is just hoping to ditch Cullen because they hate him.

It has nothing to do with Cullen as a player and everything to do with his salary and how easy it may be to move him. Well, ok, maybe it has a little to do with Cullen as a player because it makes him easier to move if he's a pretty good one.

No one hates Cullen (more or less) and no one wants him out the door based on his play (more or less), it's just a cap thing.

So stop asking.

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07-12-2007, 09:08 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
then it doesn't make sense to pull the trigger.

If the Rangers can get both Avery and Hossa signed, there's no need to move Cullen.

If what Larry Brooks stated was true (highly doubtful) about being able to push the bonus payment ot Shanny off until next year, we have no cap issues this year or next.

Never makes any sense to just give a player away.
Agreed. I'm assuming they have the money to keep Cullen and sign Avery. Hossa leaves its no big deal.

SBOB did mention in interesting possibility though, of Avery playing center on the third line.

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07-12-2007, 09:09 AM
  #59
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IMO, dropping 2.8 million in salary and giving a kid a chance to show what he's got is a good thing.
Plus, I personally don't think Prucha or Callahan will score many goals with Cullen centering them.

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07-12-2007, 09:09 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyChoice View Post
Why else would you trade Cullen? I know Avery needs to be re-signed, but he'll probably get 1/2 what Cullen makes and I really wouldn't care if Hossa walked. If Souray ends up going for a 5 year big money contract then forget it its not happening but word apparently is he'll take 1 year and everyone knows we could use a powerplay point man.
While I agree that five years for Souray would be a tough nut to swallow, it's not the length of contract that makes his signing impossible even if we trade Cullen - it's the size. Unless he's also willing to take less than the 5.5MM his agent has been asking for...?

I realize you don't value Hossa as much as I do, but we've offered arbitration to both Avery and Hossa, which tells me that management is at least interested in keeping both. And, as RangerBoy points out, you need to have some flexibility for injuries, call ups, etc.

3.1MM Current cap room
+2.9MM Freed up by trading Cullen
6.0MM Available
5.5MM To sign Souray (and this is the MINIMUM he'd take)
0.5MM Left over

Which means
  • Avery is unsigned
  • Hossa is unsigned
  • Can't bring up Montoya (1.834MM), Korpikoski (1.018MM), Bourret (0.85MM), Anisimov (.85MM), Staal (0.827MM), Moore (0.725MM), Dubinsky (0.633MM), Byers (0.608MM), Liffiton (0.579MM), or Baranka (0.522MM)

Not happening. At least not without shedding another substantial salary.

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Old
07-12-2007, 09:10 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Wow this thread is on fire at 9 am!

Good for us, talk about dedicated. Early birds catch the worms huh?

Side note:

Who would you want on this team?

Cullen and his salary?
or
Souray and a 1 year deal?

Me- Cullen
I agree. I would rather have cullen on this team....

I really dont want to see him moved... but i also want to see dubi play... so i guess I cant win... I think that Cullen worked really well on the 3rd line last year and will work really well there again this year. plus he can play the point on the PP. we arent in that desprate of a cap situation yet. Dubi could take over for him and i wouldnt mind seeing that happen if Cullen has to be the sacrifice for more cap space... in fact I would love to see Dubi getting a spot this year and Cullens place is the only place I see it happening....

Dont get me wrong.. i want the kids to play... but i just have a bad feeling about moving too much around on this team....

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07-12-2007, 09:11 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyChoice View Post
SBOB did mention in interesting possibility though, of Avery playing center on the third line.
I don't love Avery playing center, but it's an option. Maybe something like:

Dawes/Korpikoski/Byers-Avery-Callahan

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Old
07-12-2007, 09:13 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theoren Fan View Post
Cullen's a nice player but if somebody from the 'Pack is ready to step up and be that 3rd line center, then by all means let's do it.
I really hsve to agree with you when ti comes down to it (realizing this after reading over my post above).. I kinda got attached to Cullen for some reason last year.. but realisticly, if Dubi or someone else is ready to step up... then lets go for it...

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Old
07-12-2007, 09:14 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't love Avery playing center, but it's an option. Maybe something like:

Dawes/Korpikoski/Byers-Avery-Callahan
I don't think you move Cullen unless you're fairly certain there's a suitable replacement. Avery isn't it.

I'm still not seeing the Souray connection some people keep bringing up. The issue is unloading an uncessary salary for a team close to the cap, that's it.

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Old
07-12-2007, 09:16 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Mara hasn't been here long? He's been here a half a season less than Cullen.

I don't want to get rid of either but if I had to pick it would be Cullen. The Rangers have more options to replace him (Dubinsky or maybe Avery plays center on the third line). And if you trade him more money comes off the cap as he's signed beyond this season.

Sports are not as simple as that... It isn't as simple as just those 82 games. But on that note, Mara played in just 19 in the regular season.

Teams are built over the period of the preseason, during camps and everything else. Cullen is MUCH more apart of the Rangers than Mara imo. Mara didn't take part in any of those things that Cullen did early on. Each one of those days that Cullen is a member is a big piece as to the growth of a team.

That is why sports aren't as simple as just throwing guys out there and having them play to the way they are capable... A million factors to take into account.


Now i'm not saying that Cullen is irreplacable, because i have no idea whether he is good at all in the lockerroom. Just saying that it is something extremely important and has to be considered.

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Old
07-12-2007, 09:19 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I don't think you move Cullen unless you're fairly certain there's a suitable replacement. Avery isn't it.

I'm still not seeing the Souray connection some people keep bringing up. The issue is unloading an uncessary salary for a team close to the cap, that's it.
Again, I'm not condoning putting Avery at center. I'm just saying it's an option for Renney.

And I agree, I don't see the Souray issue either.

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Old
07-12-2007, 09:24 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
While I agree that five years for Souray would be a tough nut to swallow, it's not the length of contract that makes his signing impossible even if we trade Cullen - it's the size. Unless he's also willing to take less than the 5.5MM his agent has been asking for...?

I realize you don't value Hossa as much as I do, but we've offered arbitration to both Avery and Hossa, which tells me that management is at least interested in keeping both. And, as RangerBoy points out, you need to have some flexibility for injuries, call ups, etc.

3.1MM Current cap room
+2.9MM Freed up by trading Cullen
6.0MM Available
5.5MM To sign Souray (and this is the MINIMUM he'd take)
0.5MM Left over

Which means
  • Avery is unsigned
  • Hossa is unsigned
  • Can't bring up Montoya (1.834MM), Korpikoski (1.018MM), Bourret (0.85MM), Anisimov (.85MM), Staal (0.827MM), Moore (0.725MM), Dubinsky (0.633MM), Byers (0.608MM), Liffiton (0.579MM), or Baranka (0.522MM)

Not happening. At least not without shedding another substantial salary.
So by this logic you, re-sign Avery and Hossa and maintain the current cap flexibility at the expense of Cullen? That wouldn't make sense to me.

I would rather keep Cullen, and try to fit Avery and Hossa into the little space we have remaining. If not you can let Hossa walk. I definitely agree you need flexibility going into the season and I expect Avery to get 2 mm absolute max. So if you have to jettison Hossa that gives you a margin of a little over a Million.

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Old
07-12-2007, 09:45 AM
  #68
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If you can dump his salary, call up a replacement to do what he does, plus the Canes give you a pick, it should be done. He is a 3rd line center that got a bloated contract, and he really did not perform up to his potential. Cap space is fan friendly.

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07-12-2007, 09:52 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Wow this thread is on fire at 9 am!

Good for us, talk about dedicated. Early birds catch the worms huh?
haha yeah. i just logged in an was not expecting to see 3 pages in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Mara hasn't been here long? He's been here a half a season less than Cullen.

I don't want to get rid of either but if I had to pick it would be Cullen. The Rangers have more options to replace him (Dubinsky or maybe Avery plays center on the third line). And if you trade him more money comes off the cap as he's signed beyond this season.
Good point(s). Mara's role is a lot more solidified and difficult to replace (relatively).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers need to move a contract to open up some manuverability.Short term injuries will occur.Players will come down with the flu.A player on IR counts against the cap.To put a player on long term injured reserve that player will miss 24 days and 10 games.Call ups will be made.Those players will count against the cap

[NO!]To sign Souray[/NO!],the Rangers will have to move Cullen and Mara AND not take back any salary in return.They will end up right back where they are now

Moving Cullen opens up cap space for the 08-09 and 09-10 seasons
no Souray, pleaase.. first and last comments on this:

too much $$$ and not enough defense. for him to be effective the PP needs to shoot (good luck doing that with Jagr there). too much change is not good and no offense to Sheldon but he's not the best type of player to bring in.

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Old
07-12-2007, 09:52 AM
  #70
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I wouldn't be surprised if Renney pulled this one...

Straka-Gomez-Jagr
Prucha-Drury-Shanahan
Hossa-Avery-Callahan
Hollweg-Betts-Orr

That would be VERY Renney-esque.

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07-12-2007, 09:52 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by shoothepuck View Post
If you can dump his salary, call up a replacement to do what he does, plus the Canes give you a pick, it should be done. He is a 3rd line center that got a bloated contract, and he really did not perform up to his potential. Cap space is fan friendly.
He didn't perform up to his potential? He had 41 points - which is basically his average season. What were you really expecting?

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07-12-2007, 09:57 AM
  #72
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He didn't perform up to his potential? He had 41 points - which is basically his average season. What were you really expecting?
Yeah, but I think that he was signed on the basis of his strong 06 playoffs and folks thought he might be emerging into a 65pt guy. I'm not saying he was a huge disappointment, but that he didn't make the leap that would've made him an essential piece. As a 40pt guy he is emminently tradeable to free up the space we need.

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07-12-2007, 10:07 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Yeah, but I think that he was signed on the basis of his strong 06 playoffs and folks thought he might be emerging into a 65pt guy. I'm not saying he was a huge disappointment, but that he didn't make the leap that would've made him an essential piece. As a 40pt guy he is emminently tradeable to free up the space we need.
The space we need for what? Avery's the only must sign, it can be done with 3.1mm and room to spare. Sign him up, see what the arbitrator gives Hossa and take this team into camp.

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07-12-2007, 10:08 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by JohnnyChoice View Post
So by this logic you, re-sign Avery and Hossa and maintain the current cap flexibility at the expense of Cullen? That wouldn't make sense to me.

I would rather keep Cullen, and try to fit Avery and Hossa into the little space we have remaining. If not you can let Hossa walk. I definitely agree you need flexibility going into the season and I expect Avery to get 2 mm absolute max. So if you have to jettison Hossa that gives you a margin of a little over a Million.
If I had to guess...?

Cullen gets traded, freeing up $2.875MM
Avery signs at $2.25-2.5MM
Hossa signs at $850K-1.15MM

So...

$3.263MM in cap space*
+2.875MM freed by trading Cullen
6.138MM
-2.375MM for Avery (splitting the difference in my estimate)
-1.000MM for Hossa (splitting the difference in my estimate)
-0.827MM for Staal
1.936MM in flexibility, allowing you to call up 2-3 players from the minors due to injuries if need be.

Sounds about right to me.


*The $3.1MM I quoted earlier is from the NYT this morning. Kodiak's updated number in the Salary Cap thread stickied above is $3.263MM.

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Old
07-12-2007, 10:10 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Yeah, but I think that he was signed on the basis of his strong 06 playoffs and folks thought he might be emerging into a 65pt guy. I'm not saying he was a huge disappointment, but that he didn't make the leap that would've made him an essential piece. As a 40pt guy he is emminently tradeable to free up the space we need.
He played well in the playoffs this year. And 65 points was very ambitious seeing how he never had more than 61 previously.

Let's not overlook the fact that if you trade Cullen you have then lost two of the teams top penalty klling forwards from last aseason (with Orts gone).

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