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Old
07-13-2007, 12:16 PM
  #26
IrishSniper87
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Also, i put souray and pitkanen on the same line in post 21 because i was saying the oilers d needs to play O and Pitkanen and Souray together would provide some O, i wouldnt put them together though, which means the oilers O is still bad.

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07-13-2007, 12:17 PM
  #27
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger73549 View Post
I dont believe in saying that if Pitkanen would have played 82 games he would have had 65 points, thats just what pace he was on. It doesnt hurt that year the Flyers were a 100 point team.
I have no problems with pitkanen, i would have rather keep him myself, but he had flaws in his game but he was still young. I personally think he just didnt want to be here.
I think he will turn out above average, I just have a thing for defensemen who aren't great on defense. I expect similar points for him this year, and I'd top out at 50 unless the oilers do something incredible
You are right, putting 2 offensive d men on the same line is dumb anyway.
ah, i'll counter what you just said by pointing out that when Pitkanen got hurt he was playing OUT OF HIS MIND and putting up a PPG for about a month stretch. if he hadn't gotten hurt, i don't think 70 pts was out of reach that season.

with Souray on the PP getting Pitkanen cheap assists (which he didn't have on our PP last year) you'll see a good point total from Pitkanen. if he gets a partner who can cover him a bit at even strength, i'd like him even more for fantasy purposes.

Pitkanen is going to be a WAY above average offensive defenseman (he already is) and he can develop into an average guy defensively.

Brian Leetch sucked on defense relative to other guys out there as well... people forget this.

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Old
07-13-2007, 12:19 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger73549 View Post
Also, i put souray and pitkanen on the same line in post 21 because i was saying the oilers d needs to play O and Pitkanen and Souray together would provide some O, i wouldnt put them together though, which means the oilers O is still bad.
no, it means you'd actually put together the roster the way it makes sense... they'll play the PP together and be with someone else at even strength.

happens all the time.

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Old
07-13-2007, 12:26 PM
  #29
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Lupul's not the whipping boy, but I don't have any affinity for him either. He was drafted by the Ducks, traded to the Oilers, and found himself here at the expense of my favorite player. Not only that, it's hard to get attached to a player when you think they'll be gone in a couple years.

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Old
07-13-2007, 12:31 PM
  #30
Jester
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Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
Lupul's not the whipping boy, but I don't have any affinity for him either. He was drafted by the Ducks, traded to the Oilers, and found himself here at the expense of my favorite player. Not only that, it's hard to get attached to a player when you think they'll be gone in a couple years.
Lupul already has a problem with a few of us, which you point to in this post... his larger problem is going to be if he struggles to start and Pitkanen has a hot start. I'm pretty convinced Flyer fans crowing about this deal at the moment are going to realize the problems in that trade in the next few years... It's unfortunate for Lupul that he comes in a deal that is centered around a player with explosive potential.

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Old
07-13-2007, 12:40 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Lupul already has a problem with a few of us, which you point to in this post... his larger problem is going to be if he struggles to start and Pitkanen has a hot start. I'm pretty convinced Flyer fans crowing about this deal at the moment are going to realize the problems in that trade in the next few years... It's unfortunate for Lupul that he comes in a deal that is centered around a player with explosive potential.
I'm not concerned about the pressure he'll face, rather the finances.

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Old
07-13-2007, 01:00 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by facts View Post
It seems rather ironic that the key player that was acquired for Pitkanen has assumed the role of Joni as the new whipping boy for the Flyers.
To me it seems rather foolish that we would acquire a player via trade, and then trade him before even getting him on the ice! So when I read threads that say " I can't find seem to find a place for Lupul in the lineup" I seem to get confused. He scored 16 goals for the Oilers last year on an "off" year and close to 25 I believe the year prior for the Ducks, now I don't want to start a comparison conversation but look at the production of Carter Richards Umburger and Kappy over those years as well. I would say that Lupul was rather close and in some ways probably better.
To say that he cannot fit onto this team and contribute regularly is stupid, so let's lose the trade Lupul attitude until he at least gets on the ice.
I get what this poster is saying. Lupul hasn't even touched the ice here in Philly, and yet we are all running for our crucifixes. He will be tried here in Philly. I would like to see him on Richards' wing since I feel like Richards is a better passer than Carter. To those of you expecting him to pot 30 goals this season. I think you are setting your expectations WAY too high. Stop feeling like he has to fill Joni's offensive void, because it isn't going to happen.

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07-13-2007, 01:02 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm pretty convinced Flyer fans crowing about this deal at the moment are going to realize the problems in that trade in the next few years...
I dont think many people here are really crowing over the Pitkanen trade.

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Old
07-13-2007, 01:04 PM
  #34
Larry44
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Originally Posted by MojoJojo View Post
I dont think many people here are really crowing over the Pitkanen trade.
Go over to the Orange and Black boards, geesh, you'd think Pitkanen murdered Mother Teresa...

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07-13-2007, 01:06 PM
  #35
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Lol! I dont doubt it. Havent been on the O&B or the Philly.com boards in ages.

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Old
07-13-2007, 01:07 PM
  #36
Larry44
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Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
I'll eat my hat if Pittkanen ever gets 80 points.
NEVER
GONNA
HAPPEN
I'll eat my lunch if you ever spell Pitkanen correctly...

Where is Meltzer with the umlauts anyway??

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07-13-2007, 01:09 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Go over to the Orange and Black boards, geesh, you'd think Pitkanen murdered Mother Teresa...
haha

I dont speak for every flyers fan. but i have never liked pitkanen. He is a weak defender. Hes not tough at all. I think flyers fans r just sick of hearing about his potential, since we rarely saw it. All u hear is this kid will be good, #1 d-man. He has yet to show it. best of luck to him, but he was never going to become great while wearing the orange and black

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Old
07-13-2007, 01:26 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo View Post
Lol! I dont doubt it. Havent been on the O&B or the Philly.com boards in ages.
Those places are awful. The post quality at those boards is equivalent do something like...

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Old
07-13-2007, 01:31 PM
  #39
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my problem with him is hearing he is a one way player. i can not stand players who do not hustle backk on d. give me 3 players who get back on d and hustle and ill give u a line that can play on any team. i fricken hate jagr just for that. he cherrypicks the whole time. players like thatb do not help your team as much as they hurt them. it gives the other team a 5 on 4 when they are on the ice

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Old
07-13-2007, 01:33 PM
  #40
JGalt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo View Post
My point is I would much rather see him getting minutes than Lupul at this point. Lupul should not be burying Umberger on the Roster, it should be the other way around. If we are going to trade someone for parts, let it be Lupul.
Umberger:
Age: 25 GP(w/ playoffs): 159 G: 37 A: 30 P: 67 +/-: -26 PPG: .42138

Lupul:
Age: 23 GP(w/ playoffs): 178 G: 53 A: 39 P: 92 +/-: -33 PPG: .51685

The numbers speak for themselves.

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Old
07-13-2007, 01:46 PM
  #41
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I am willing to give Lupul a chance. I am not going to hold anything against him, to do so really isnt fair IMO. If he comes in here, and works hard thats all anyone can ask for.

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Old
07-13-2007, 02:30 PM
  #42
MojoJojo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGalt View Post
Umberger:
Age: 25 GP(w/ playoffs): 159 G: 37 A: 30 P: 67 +/-: -26 PPG: .42138

Lupul:
Age: 23 GP(w/ playoffs): 178 G: 53 A: 39 P: 92 +/-: -33 PPG: .51685

The numbers speak for themselves.
OK, then lets look at Ice time as well. in 05/06 and 06/07 Lupul fot 15:36 and 16:38 average minutes per game. In those same years Umberger got 13:14 and 14:32. In terms of points per minute, Lupul scored a point every 25:25 minutes in 05/06 and a point every 45:06 minutes in 06/07. Umberger on the other hand score a point every 25:24 minutes in 05/06 and a point every 42:03 minutes in 06/07. When adjusted for minutes, Umberger outscores Lupul.

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Old
07-13-2007, 02:37 PM
  #43
IrishSniper87
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Originally Posted by MojoJojo View Post
OK, then lets look at Ice time as well. in 05/06 and 06/07 Lupul fot 15:36 and 16:38 average minutes per game. In those same years Umberger got 13:14 and 14:32. In terms of points per minute, Lupul scored a point every 25:25 minutes in 05/06 and a point every 45:06 minutes in 06/07. Umberger on the other hand score a point every 25:24 minutes in 05/06 and a point every 42:03 minutes in 06/07. When adjusted for minutes, Umberger outscores Lupul.
BARELY

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Old
07-13-2007, 02:40 PM
  #44
MojoJojo
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Originally Posted by Tiger73549 View Post
BARELY
While logging PK minutes, being defensively responsible, etc. Lupul is a one dimensional player, and that one dimension is not even better than what Buger brings.

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Old
07-13-2007, 02:51 PM
  #45
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I would take lupul over umberger quite easily. He has a much higher ceiling, and if he reaches it his contract is going to be attractive. Umberger does not have the ability to play on our top 2 lines. If we were talking 3rd line winger i would take Umberger hands down though.

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Old
07-13-2007, 03:18 PM
  #46
MojoJojo
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Originally Posted by kz View Post
I would take lupul over umberger quite easily. He has a much higher ceiling, and if he reaches it his contract is going to be attractive. Umberger does not have the ability to play on our top 2 lines. If we were talking 3rd line winger i would take Umberger hands down though.
If he plays as lazy and disinterested here as he did in Edmonton, I dont care what his ceiling is. If he refuses to play responsibly, I hope Stevens benches the sucker no matter how brilliant he is offensively. The point is to help the team win, not pad personal stats.

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07-13-2007, 03:26 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo View Post
If he plays as lazy and disinterested here as he did in Edmonton, I dont care what his ceiling is. If he refuses to play responsibly, I hope Stevens benches the sucker no matter how brilliant he is offensively. The point is to help the team win, not pad personal stats.
At least let him play one game here before we label a 23 year old lazy.

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Old
07-13-2007, 08:58 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
I get what this poster is saying. Lupul hasn't even touched the ice here in Philly, and yet we are all running for our crucifixes. He will be tried here in Philly. I would like to see him on Richards' wing since I feel like Richards is a better passer than Carter. To those of you expecting him to pot 30 goals this season. I think you are setting your expectations WAY too high. Stop feeling like he has to fill Joni's offensive void, because it isn't going to happen.
If we can't expect a wing to fill a defenseman's offensive void, we're in serious trouble.

Quote:
I would take lupul over umberger quite easily. He has a much higher ceiling, and if he reaches it his contract is going to be attractive. Umberger does not have the ability to play on our top 2 lines. If we were talking 3rd line winger i would take Umberger hands down though.
The way I think about it even without considering what line he'll play on is that it's not Umberger or Lupul. It's Umberger+Pitkanen or Lupul+Smith. I take the former any day of the week.

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Old
07-13-2007, 10:25 PM
  #49
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For what it's worth I think Lupul is definately a guy you guys want to give a legit opportunity to.

There is little mystery in the fact that he struggled badly last year but I am one of the few Oilers fans that seems to believe this will prove to be a one off type of problem. He was in an incredibly tough spot last year in that he was a home town kid traded for one of the best players in the game. He stepped into a line up that from the top down pretty much uncharacteristically struggled from the get go and at his age and with that pressure there is little doubt that he wasn't capable to lead the charge out of the darkness for his new team and he shouldn't have been expected to.

At the very least you have an Anson Carter type that will get you goals even if he never becomes polished with the other parts of his game. If you give him responsible linemates (one being a guy that is capable to carry the puck for him) and keep him on the second line (which doesn't seem like a problem given Philly's roster depth) he will provide very good secondary scoring for you guys.

If he hones his game he could be that 35 - 40 goal guy that doesn't kill you in your own end and what team doesn't pray for a guy like that to come along? This is the player I think you guys have. He needs to work on his game obviously but he has shown enough flashes that once it clicks for him there will be no turning back. I doubt it happens overnight though so have some patience.
I hate Anson Carter. You're not helping.

Oh, and Lupul has just as much right, if not more, to be on a scoring line than RJ Umberger.

I want to like the guy, and I was a fan of his before last season when I admittedly didn't watch the Oilers at all and heard he was ****. If he succeeds here, I will be pleased for him and for the team, but I will continue to not believe the trade was worth it.

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Old
07-14-2007, 06:10 AM
  #50
Flyerfan808
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
If we can't expect a wing to fill a defenseman's offensive void, we're in serious trouble.
Unless Lupul can outshine Knuble, Upshall, Gagne, or Hartnell and earn first or second line minutes it isn't going to happen. I would not expect a third line winger to put up more than 40 pts a season.

Not to be rude but I think you are forgetting which "defensemen" we are talking about here... this is not Derian Hatcher, this is Joni Pitkanen an offensive defensemen and a very good one at that.

But you are right, Lupul is capable.

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