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Should the Rangers Retire #68 If...

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Old
07-14-2007, 03:26 PM
  #26
Classic Devil
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My 2 cents - Cup no. Conn Smythe, yes.

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Old
07-14-2007, 03:27 PM
  #27
Son of Steinbrenner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Why so? I did not know that
I posted it above...

I know Wikipedia isn't always accurate but that article is out of a social studies book...

also i found this pretty cool and i can verify it's accurate because I've heard Jagr (not in person obviously) tell the story..

By his own admission, Jagr states that his main idol growing up was US President Ronald Reagan, whose "peace through strength" policy contributed to the fall of European Communism. Jagr kept a picture of President Reagan in his academic notebook, which if discovered would have led to certain punishment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagr

I couldn't imagine growing up like that...Although i used to hide a 2livecrew tape in my bookbag...which i guess is sort of the same thing...my punishment would've been much harsher...

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Old
07-14-2007, 03:31 PM
  #28
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Im kinda on the fence.... I would lean towards yes though... if he wins the cup and has a great couple of years...

as much as I like Gravy... I think that he is borderline... if you are going to put him up there then how many other 300 career goal players go up there? Bathgate is even more deserving with almost 1000 career points and a decade as a blueshirt!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty's Better View Post
Greater "Rangers" who don't (and probably shouldn't) have their # retired:

Graves
JD
Ratelle
Espo

I still identify Jagr with the Pens more than anything.
Agree with both.... Like I said.. on the fence with Jagr....

and not to jack the thread, but after Leetch the next number that will be retired will be the Kings, assuming he keeps it up and stays a Ranger for the next decade....

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Old
07-14-2007, 03:46 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Why so? I did not know that
1968 was the year that Prague Spring occured. It was a time of ideological change and pseudo-revolutionary activity. Alexandr Dubcek (sp) helped spearhead this movement. Essentially, what was then Czechoslovakia (mostly centered in Prague hence the name) wished to partially free themselves from some of the Soviet control they endured due to their satellite status. However, it didnt seem that they wanted to completely break from the USSR. I believe that the reforms these people were pushing for were better freedom of press, and an slight adapting of the Soviet Economic system that would be more conducive to the way Czechoslovakia operated. I think that the Soviet Union considered working with Dubcek; however at the last minute they backed from that stance and sent tanks into Prague in an effort to supress the ideological dissent. I am not sure if there were any casualities--nothing major though. Jagr wears #68 to commemorate the brave Czechs who attempted to defy a totalitarian regime.

I hope this helps. I am sure Czechs on this board know the situation much better and regard my response as completely off, this is jsut what I vaguely remember from a paper I wrote 3 years ago. If anyone has better knowledge please post bc I am also interested.


EDIT: Whoops didnt see the link above, sorry.

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Old
07-14-2007, 03:49 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staal0708 View Post
they win the cup while he is still playing. He was partially responsible for the revival, holds several team records, and would have brought the cup back to NY as the captain.

Thoughts?
I don't think a cup is enough. He has to make his mark on the Rangers club. He has time in service against him. If he plays two more years, he'll only have 4 full seasons. However looking at the Rangers all time scorers list, no one appears on it more than 3 times (Messier, Ratelle: Leetch, Gilbert twice) so if he has two more 90+ pt seasons, that's another mark to make his case. breaking leetch's assist record wouldn't hurt. Breaking his goal and point records again wouldn't hurt either. With a cup, he'd be considered but I doubt it. With some more records... mmmmaybe, but still doubtful. If he wins two back to back cups? Definitely.

compare Jagr with Graves who has 10 years of service. Masterson and Clancy trophies. Former single season goal record holder. 7 consecutive Ceil Saidel (dedication) awards. 5 Steven McDonald (extra effort) awards. Rangers MVP in 93 & 94. 4 Players' Player awards. 1 Stanley Cup. All that and no number retirement so you gotta think the bar is pretty high.

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Old
07-14-2007, 04:19 PM
  #31
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Well if the Rangers win a cup with him that's fine--retire his number. 68 is not a number that a lot of people are going to be fighting over probably when he's gone anyway. If they don't--I don't think so.

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Old
07-14-2007, 04:28 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
If Messier never came back his number would've been retired after 6 seasons and a Cup....
Thats totally different. Messier was the heart and soul of the team, and maybe even the city during the cup run. He broke the curse, he made the guarentee, he scored The Hat Trick, he was THE captain.

Jagr is captain because he puts up good numbers and the Rangers dont want to piss him off. Shanahan is much more a captain to the Rangers than Jagr is IMO. How about this, we can retire his number if he wins a cup and does something like this:

Comes out and says the team needs to stick up for itself better and show more heart. The next game he goes out and drops the gloves with Donald Brashear to show the team how its done. THAT is something a captain would do.

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Old
07-14-2007, 04:35 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrod View Post
Even if we don't put it up to the rafters, I think we should retire the number. Similar to #99 being retired. It's just one of those numbers, even if it wasn't retired no one would wear #99 today. #68 and #66 should be the same.
Oh pleeaaaaase. You want it retired league wide? Do people have a hard time wearing #9 these days (Howe)? Do they have a hard time wearing #4 (Orr)? #11 (Messier)? No. #68 is not nearly revered enough to merit league wide retirement, and Jagr is not even close to the 3rd greatest hockey legend of all time. You're being silly.

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Old
07-14-2007, 05:39 PM
  #34
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Maybe im alone here, its good to talk about the cup because you want it but i just think the expectations here are a little bit too lofty.

Too many "WHEN they win the cup" and not enough "IF they win the cup".

I dont know, too much cup talk for me. Seems like a big jinx. Seems to me like a lot of fans here either started being a fan in 94 or 05 or just don't realize how hard it is to actually win one. Especially now with 30 teams in the leauge. Maybe its just me.

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Old
07-14-2007, 05:50 PM
  #35
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If we retire his number, is Washington resposnible for raising half the banner?

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Old
07-14-2007, 05:53 PM
  #36
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without having read any of the posts in here, my personal opinion is:

If Messier got his number retired Jagr should get his number retired aswell IF he wins a cup with us.

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Old
07-14-2007, 05:58 PM
  #37
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I think John Davidson should have his number retired for 2 reasons

1- he wore 00- no one else is gonna wear that

2- he was one of the best Ranger goalies and was a huge part of this organization for so very long- the fans love him, players love him- y shouldnt he?

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Old
07-14-2007, 06:29 PM
  #38
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If ($) 11 can be retired so can number 68. No Mateau, Mateau, Mateau - NO CUP! I suppose if Jagr leads us to 7 consecutive years without a playoff apearance he can also have his number retired. Had he been a Good Ole North American there'd be no problem for most people. I personally don't think numbers should be retired willy nilly without going back to honor some of our earlier great Rangers. Otherwise I'd have no problem with Jagr's number being retired, given that you only have to have played for the Oilers before joining the Rangers. Now Adam or Leetch - That's a horse of a different color.

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Old
07-14-2007, 06:30 PM
  #39
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And yes - I'm aware Adam started on the kid line in EDM.

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Old
07-14-2007, 06:53 PM
  #40
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I think it would take at least one cup and several strong seasons.

I just don't few it the same way I do Messier. Messier was a guy who had the wait of 54 years and the task of literally transforming a franchise. Jagr, though the Rangers struggled for a decade, was not faced with something like that. Messier was also a guy who was seen as making everyone else around him better, regardless of what their background was. With Jagr it almost seems like you need to get other people to make him comfortable enough to do his magic.

Just don't think we're to that point yet and wouldn't be with just one cup.

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Old
07-14-2007, 06:58 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staal0708 View Post
they win the cup while he is still playing. He was partially responsible for the revival, holds several team records, and would have brought the cup back to NY as the captain.

Thoughts?
Yes, definitely. If he brings back the Cup, let's retire #68.

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Old
07-14-2007, 06:59 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin401 View Post
Thats totally different. Messier was the heart and soul of the team, and maybe even the city during the cup run. He broke the curse, he made the guarentee, he scored The Hat Trick, he was THE captain.

Jagr is captain because he puts up good numbers and the Rangers dont want to piss him off. Shanahan is much more a captain to the Rangers than Jagr is IMO. How about this, we can retire his number if he wins a cup and does something like this:

Comes out and says the team needs to stick up for itself better and show more heart. The next game he goes out and drops the gloves with Donald Brashear to show the team how its done. THAT is something a captain would do.
The brashear fight has turned into the most overrated moment in Rangers history...

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Old
07-14-2007, 07:00 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I couldn't imagine growing up like that...Although i used to hide a 2livecrew tape in my bookbag...which i guess is sort of the same thing...my punishment would've been much harsher...
Very similar situations

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Old
07-14-2007, 07:05 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think it would take at least one cup and several strong seasons.

I just don't few it the same way I do Messier. Messier was a guy who had the wait of 54 years and the task of literally transforming a franchise. Jagr, though the Rangers struggled for a decade, was not faced with something like that. Messier was also a guy who was seen as making everyone else around him better, regardless of what their background was. With Jagr it almost seems like you need to get other people to make him comfortable enough to do his magic.

Just don't think we're to that point yet and wouldn't be with just one cup.
If Jagr didn't transform the franchise then nobody has...

Jagr makes guys around him better...See Nylander, Straka, Rozsival, Malik, Prucha...It doesn't matter what there background is...How do you explain Jagrs comfort with Brad Isbister? Isbister had a good vacation in Prague or something? See Ryan Hollwegs ONLY GOAL THIS YEAR.. A VERY CAPTAIN THING TO DO but of course that's forgotten about..Jagr has played with pain...taken punishment from opposing players...i mean are we still questioning Jagrs mettle and what he means to the Rangers? What else does he have to prove besides a cup? Does he need to play with one arm in the playoffs or something?

Nobody will be faced with what Messier took over but if Jagr plays 5 full season and the Rangers win a cup how can they not retire his number?

Jagr might own a few MORE Rangers record when his time is up...besides the obvious he has already won the "least apperciated player award" as well as the "you won't know how great he was until he is gone award" in all seriousness Messier set the bar for what a CAPTAIN has to do on the Rangers to have his number retired...Nobody is saying hand it to Jagr yet but his time MIGHT i repeat MIGHT be more succesful then Messier time with the Rangers...

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Old
07-14-2007, 07:06 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
I disagree with that. Though its true the number of Power Plays did help his case to score goals/points that year, if it was so easy why wasnt everyone putting up those numbers? Straka and Nylander were playing with the same opportunities as was the rest of the league, why wasnt everyone else doing as great as Jagr (with the exception of Cheechoo and Thornton). The guy was and is on a whole different level, he has done a lot since he came here back in the winter of 2004. He's dynamo player and he will lead this group to a cup. I say yes to retiring his number if he gets the cup here......plus who else wears the number 68 anyways besides that guy Jurcina who was on boston and then washington and now idk
How could you say that 7 power play opportunities per game didn't help out a guy who played on the first unit and was double shifted onto the second unit most of the time. Jagr was ridiculous two seasons ago, but only beat Graves record by four goals with all those extra power plays

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Old
07-14-2007, 07:06 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
I dunno, Graves was a great Ranger and his number is not retired. Jagr I think helped the revival but I think it takes more than that to have his number retired.
I love Graves and watched him almost his whole career, or at least ever since he become good.... but come on, Graves is not Jagr. Not even close. Jagr is a dominant player. Graves was a lower end first liner or even a top end second liner. He had a few great years, but other than 1994, he never scored 40 goals. Some years, he scored as little as 23 while still in his prime.

For Graves, 38 goals was a great year. For Jagr, it would be a sign that he should retire.

Now, Graves played more years in NY. And he won the Cup. But Jagr will have played 4.5 years in NY by the time his present contract ends. If he actually wins the Cup as a captain and plays a key role in the playoffs (which he would have to for the Rangers to win the Cup), then he deserves retirement of his number.

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Old
07-14-2007, 07:08 PM
  #47
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NO!

I'm not sure he's earned that honor here in NY.

Hasn't done enough (eve with a Cup)

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Old
07-14-2007, 07:13 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
NO!

I'm not sure he's earned that honor here in NY.

Hasn't done enough (eve with a Cup)
what's enough?

The fact is if Jagr was from North America and played 5 seasons...won a cup...Rangers fans would be raising his number themselves...

who are we kidding?

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Old
07-14-2007, 07:31 PM
  #49
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3 more seasons with NYR + Cup + Conn Smythe = Rafters

If he somehow manages that and you don't retire his number it will be an insult.

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Old
07-14-2007, 09:11 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
The brashear fight has turned into the most overrated moment in Rangers history...
Um, and how am I overrating it? It just an example of something a captain would do.

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