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Old
08-07-2007, 12:45 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us View Post
Alright, I'm going to have to step in here. How has Vargas "not accomplished anything?"

Being the youngest to win a Jr. Middleweight Title isn't something? Beating Ike Quartey, and Winky Wright.. Putting on classics with Trinidad, and DLH..

Vargas is an awesome fighter.
I'll give you the Quartey victory and very entertaining losses to Trinidad and Oscar, especially the Oscar fight(a classic, as you said). Perhaps, "not accomplished anything" was going to far. He has never been elite and other than his loss to Oscar De La Hoya, he is a very forgetable fighter. Don't get me wrong, I loved Vargas growing up. He and Shane Mosley were my favorite fighters for years when I was younger. He hasn't been the same guy since the DLH fight, though. If he hadn't got cocky in that eleventh round, things might be different today. What happened, happened, though, and he's been nothing but disappointing since. This was half a decade ago, by the way. Since then, it's been who? who? who? who? loss. loss. I know injuries are part of it. He is what he is, though. He's more bravado than substance, and his name won't stand the test of time.

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08-08-2007, 04:47 PM
  #77
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Cuban Boxing Team threatening non-participation in Int'l events

The Beard says the Cuban amateur boxing team might not participate in olympic trials, prep tournys, or the olympics...

context: 2 Cuban fighters defected (or were abducted->depending on your perspective) and returned home...

''Just picture the mafia sharks lurking about in search of fresh meat,'' Castro wrote of would-be promoters who could try to persuade Cuban fighters to desert.

''Cuba will not sacrifice one bit of honour, nor any of its ideas, for Olympic gold medals,'' Castro wrote. ''The morale and patriotism of its athletes shall prevail above all else.''

http://tsn.ca/olympics/news_story/?ID=215705&hubname=

oh what could have been... i can only imagine what some of these guys would have been capable of... Savon comes to mind immediately...

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08-11-2007, 02:58 AM
  #78
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Quote:
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Since then, it's been who? who? who? who? loss. loss. I know injuries are part of it. He is what he is, though. He's more bravado than substance, and his name won't stand the test of time.
Keep in mind I'm a huge Vargas fan so.. I MIGHT be off base here, but I don't think I am.

After losing to Oscar, Fernando went on to beat Ray Joval (whos not a push-over) and then beat Javier Castilliejo (whos a good fighter.)

Then of course he fought Mosley once.. Mosley was fortunate, IMO, that it got stopped. Especially being that Vargas won the 9th. And in the rematch that was the first time I've seen Vargas look downright BAD.

So this Mayorga fight will tell all to me. If he looks like hell then he's gotta hang em up. If he wins (and I think he'll bluff retirement) I think he should continue on.

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08-11-2007, 04:39 PM
  #79
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Bautista/Ponce de Leon tonight. Can't wait.

Looks like it could be fireworks.

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08-11-2007, 10:12 PM
  #80
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Well, that was fast.

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08-12-2007, 01:01 PM
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Yeah, Ponce de Leon came out and gave that kid the first round beating of his life. I don't think very many fighters at that weight could have taken those punches and made it through the round.

His left hands were HEAVY.

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08-13-2007, 08:04 PM
  #82
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The only way Taylor beats Pavlik is if he comes out and throws punches, controls the tempo with the jab and slips in some hooks to Pavliks body. I see Pavlik winning this one exactly like he won the Miranda fight, he will be forcing Taylor to come out and fight.

As for the Vargas/Mayorga fiasco, Mayorga is too wild and loses steam after 4 rounds so I see Vargas being the cautious one but at any instant this one is a brawl and will end up with Mayorga on the mat.

The Vaz/Marquez II fight was unreal, they didn't stop throwing and Vazquez was a bloddy mess. Marquez wasn't pretty neither, this was an awesome fight. Izzy has some freakin' heart. SuperFight III is in the making as both stated it will happen.

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08-15-2007, 01:26 PM
  #83
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Cotto vs. Mosely

Sat Nov 10 @ MSG

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=2975880

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08-16-2007, 04:28 PM
  #84
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08-16-2007, 09:55 PM
  #85
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Other upcoming championship fights:

Bute vs Berrio - IBF super middlewight
Edit, change in date: October 19th, Montreal

Diaconnu* vs Chad Dawson - WBC light heavyweight
Edit, official: September 29th, Sacramento, CA

Ngoudjo vs Malignaggi - IBF junior welterweight
In the fall, no location yet, negociations ongoing

*For those who don't know him, he is the guy who destroyed Rico Hoye in a Wednesday night fight a couple of months ago. Here you go, enjoy the fight:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAZ8CL4lPrc


Enjoy!


Last edited by Gustave: 09-01-2007 at 10:11 PM.
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Old
08-17-2007, 12:08 AM
  #86
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Ngoudjo vs Malignaggi - IBF junior welterweight
In the fall, no location yet, negociations ongoing
That'll be a good fight.

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08-20-2007, 11:47 PM
  #87
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You guys are selling Taylor way short, is it wishful thinking? Kelly Pavlik has been impressive in his last two fights but not THAT impressive.

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08-21-2007, 12:03 AM
  #88
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Yeah, and Jermaine Taylor has NEVER been impressive. Tell me, what exactly does the punk bring to the table? He's a great athlete, but a great boxer he is not. He doesn't have the craft and he doesn't have the heart. We'll see about his chin.

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08-21-2007, 12:15 AM
  #89
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btw

While I am a Taylor hater and a Pavlik fan, I'm no homer...

...from the day after Taylor/Spinks, Pavlik/Miranda...
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Taylor is an absolute bum. He's never looked good in a fight. You can always see his athletism and potential, but he is a terrible fighter. Hopkins won both of their fights, and Winkey bested him, too. Even when he wins (never against elite fighters) he is frustrating to watch (see last night and Ouma). Taylor is so overrated, and his robberies of Hopkins are a travesty to B-Hop's legacy as an all-time great middleweight. Taylor is complete garbage and will be exposed very soon.

Pavlik-Miranda is the fight of the year. I wish it was stopped a little sooner (Miranda didn't need to answer the bell in that last round and take those extra shots), but both guys showed a ton of grit and a ton of heart. There were shades of Hagler-Hearns out there last night. Obviously this bout was not on that level, but I was just reminded of those two guys. I loved Pavlik and Miranda, and I'm shocked that we were able to see this fight. I figured Pavlik would out box Miranda, but I figured Edison had a pretty damn good puncher's chance. Kelly walked right through Edison's power, and showed that he is a fantastic fighter, with tons of skill, power, heart, and balls. Jermaine Taylor will not be able to punch Pavlik as hard as Miranda did. I hope Pavlik gets a mandatory fight against Jermaine. Too bad Taylor will run away and surrender his belt to go fight a bigger money name.

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The thing about Pavlik is that his speed and reflexes are not great. Also, he gets hit alot, which he can get away with at 160, but if he moves up more, he's going to have to learn to defend himself. He's still managed by his team from Ohio, and that needs to change. He's big time now, and he needs a big time team. He's not a finished product, and I'm not sure if the people he's with now, are the people that can get him truly prepared for the next level.
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You are giving both Pavlik and Miranda too much credit, here. Kelly starts fights flat-footed, leads with his head, and has as much movement from the neck up as frankenstein. A quicker, more polished fighter than Miranda, that works off of the jab, could really give Pavlik some trouble unless he learns to roll, dodge, or block punches. He can't afford eat that much leather against bigger, stronger, more elite fighters than Miranda. It's just not humanly possible.

Also, late in the fifth round, Pavlik had his left hand in his pocket for a solid minute and a half. If Miranda was more experienced, and less fatigued, he could have put Kelly's lights out at that point. Pavlik MUST keep his left up, no matter how tired he is. He's just not quick enough to get out of the way of the big punches that would innevetably be thrown at his wide open, stationary head, by elite fighters.

I would say that he needs to work off of his jab more too, based on last night, but I've seen enough of his fights in the past to know that he usually does. His game-plan for Miranda just didn't involve a whole lot of setting up combos off of the jab. He wanted to bully him back with power punches, all night, until he folded. That plan worked to a tee.

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08-21-2007, 01:53 AM
  #90
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Yeah, and Jermaine Taylor has NEVER been impressive. Tell me, what exactly does the punk bring to the table? He's a great athlete, but a great boxer he is not. He doesn't have the craft and he doesn't have the heart. We'll see about his chin.
No heart means no chin. At least that's what I believe.

I can't wait to see Taylor come in with his looping, wide punches and get clocked by a Pavlik straight right.

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08-21-2007, 06:46 AM
  #91
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No heart means no chin. At least that's what I believe.

I can't wait to see Taylor come in with his looping, wide punches and get clocked by a Pavlik straight right.
Not at all. Fernando Vargas has a weak chin, but has plenty of heart. Roy Jones, on the other hand, got knocked out by one lucky punch(I swear to god Tarver's eyes were closed), and his career was completely devastated. His confidence was completely shot. Roy was probably the most purely talented boxer who ever lived, but he had no heart.

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08-21-2007, 12:52 PM
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I don't think Vargas has a weak chin. He's been in there against some of the biggest hitters of our generation and got tagged.

Part of having a good chin is mental. I guess that's what I was trying to say. Only a small part is physical.

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08-21-2007, 03:45 PM
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I don't think Vargas has a weak chin. He's been in there against some of the biggest hitters of our generation and got tagged.

Part of having a good chin is mental. I guess that's what I was trying to say. Only a small part is physical.
He's been down against bums, too. Maybe saying is has a weak chin is going too far(I don't really think it is, though, but maybe). However, his chin is in no way an asset.

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08-21-2007, 06:16 PM
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Being impressive isn't the key to being a great boxer. Bernard Hopkins was one of the least impressive long reigning champions of all time but people choose to forget that now as they honor his career. Muhammad Ali is easily the most boring fighter I've ever watched but he's "the greatest".

I'm not a fan of Taylor and I consider him a major disappointment but comparing a scrub like Pavlik to Jermaine is laughable. You aren't going to get an impressive victory over defensive fighters like Hopkins and Wright, you take what you can get and hope for the best (and not liking a decision doesn't make it a robbery, saying either Hopkins or wright was robbed is nonsense). I expect Jermaine Taylor will have the most impressive victory of his career when he gets in there with Pavlik.

As for Vargas, his biggest problem was mis-management. He was a cash cow and was put in with too many elite fighters way too soon. He's been shot since the Tito fight in my opinion.

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08-21-2007, 08:28 PM
  #95
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Being impressive isn't the key to being a great boxer. Bernard Hopkins was one of the least impressive long reigning champions of all time but people choose to forget that now as they honor his career. Muhammad Ali is easily the most boring fighter I've ever watched but he's "the greatest".

I'm not a fan of Taylor and I consider him a major disappointment but comparing a scrub like Pavlik to Jermaine is laughable. You aren't going to get an impressive victory over defensive fighters like Hopkins and Wright, you take what you can get and hope for the best (and not liking a decision doesn't make it a robbery, saying either Hopkins or wright was robbed is nonsense). I expect Jermaine Taylor will have the most impressive victory of his career when he gets in there with Pavlik.

As for Vargas, his biggest problem was mis-management. He was a cash cow and was put in with too many elite fighters way too soon. He's been shot since the Tito fight in my opinion.
Hopkins was a technician. A true boxing fan can find the entertainment in that. I love Bernard Hopkins.

Ali was boring? I'm speachless, there.

Jermaine Taylor is the scrub. He has no boxing skills. He's a terrible fighter. Pavlik is the much more skilled fighter, he's got proven power, and a proven chin. Taylor hasn't taken a punch like the ones Miranda was dishing out to Pavlik over and over again. In fact, I'd bet a pretty little sum of money on a Miranda knocking Taylor out if they were to meet next month, rather than Pavlik and Taylor.

I had Taylor/Hopkins II 9-3. No one I know that follows boxing, and who's opinion I respect regarding the sport, had it closer than 8-4. My opinion doesn't really matter, though, does it? Go look at the ring magazine that came out after the fight. Everyone knew it was a robbery.

Pavlik is not a finished product. He has a lot to work on before I would ever think of calling him elite. However, he has a lot working in his favor, in that regard. First of all, he's young and he has some of the most important tools you look for. He's versatile, he doesn't panic, he's got a great beard, he works incredibly hard in and out of the ring and he's can knock guys right the **** out. Further, who anywhere near his division is obvsiously better than him? Hopkins? Sure, but how old will he by the time they fight, if they ever do? Winky? I can't see Pavlik beating him now, but in a few years, if Kelly can work on some things, it's not out of the realm of possiblity. Other than that, there aren't a whole lot of guys out there. Especially if Kelly continues to move up in weight, as he should. Mosely, PBF, Cotto, ect. aren't going that high.

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08-22-2007, 06:29 PM
  #96
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Hopkins was a technician. A true boxing fan can find the entertainment in that. I love Bernard Hopkins.

I'm going to suggest that you aren't a "true" boxing fan, nor do you know of one. Pernell Whittaker was a technician. Hopkins was a limited fighter who could only fight one way. There is nothing entertaining about his fights, except when he was beating up on welterweights. Sit through is Robert Allen/ Antwaun Echols and Segundo Mercado fights and them come back and tell me he was a technician.

Ali was boring? I'm speachless, there.

I can't think of a more over glorified fighter than Ali. His social persona caused people to ignore his putrid in ring performance, especially in the 70's when Joe Frazier wasn't standing across from him.

Jermaine Taylor is the scrub. He has no boxing skills. He's a terrible fighter. Pavlik is the much more skilled fighter, he's got proven power, and a proven chin. Taylor hasn't taken a punch like the ones Miranda was dishing out to Pavlik over and over again. In fact, I'd bet a pretty little sum of money on a Miranda knocking Taylor out if they were to meet next month, rather than Pavlik and Taylor.

You are hard to take seriously with comments like this. I'd love to see Pavlik beat Taylor but he won't because he is in no way close to Taylor in skill level. Proven power? Against who? Miranda, while exciting, is a club fighter.

I had Taylor/Hopkins II 9-3. No one I know that follows boxing, and who's opinion I respect regarding the sport, had it closer than 8-4. My opinion doesn't really matter, though, does it? Go look at the ring magazine that came out after the fight. Everyone knew it was a robbery.

Was "the ring"'s scorecard similiar to yours? I don't care if it's you, the ring, Jack Johnson raised from the dead but anyone who calls a fight where neither fighter took a chance, a robbery, I disregard their opinion.

Pavlik is not a finished product. He has a lot to work on before I would ever think of calling him elite. However, he has a lot working in his favor, in that regard. First of all, he's young and he has some of the most important tools you look for. He's versatile, he doesn't panic, he's got a great beard, he works incredibly hard in and out of the ring and he's can knock guys right the **** out. Further, who anywhere near his division is obvsiously better than him? Hopkins? Sure, but how old will he by the time they fight, if they ever do? Winky? I can't see Pavlik beating him now, but in a few years, if Kelly can work on some things, it's not out of the realm of possiblity. Other than that, there aren't a whole lot of guys out there. Especially if Kelly continues to move up in weight, as he should. Mosely, PBF, Cotto, ect. aren't going that high.
Ever seen the Damon Wayans movie "the great white hype"? Kelly Pavlik is the white guy in that movie.

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08-22-2007, 06:44 PM
  #97
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If Kelly Pavlik fights the way he did against Miranda then I see Taylor getting beaten easily. Taylor will be forced to fight, and this time around he will have a true puncher hitting him on his face and to the body. Taylor better give the boxing performance of his life if he even wants to survive 4 rounds.

However, with the above being said, Pavlik has tendencies that Taylor can expose with his quickness and combos. But I would like to think Kelly knows this and is working hard on limiting Taylors chances. This fight is a gut check for Taylor and Pavlik.

One is trying to find out if he has what it takes to be a champ and the other is a champ trying to prove that he has what it takes to stay there.

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08-22-2007, 06:55 PM
  #98
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Miranda isn't a club fighter. You wanna talk about robberies, he got robbed bad against Arthur Abraham, beat up on Howard Eastman and Allan Green, and nearly killed Willie Gibbs. What Miranda is, is unpolished. Pavlik beat the guy up good. He's beaten everyone he's ever fought "up good". Taylor is just as unpolished as Miranda. And that means knockout city.

Jermaine Taylor and combos shouldn't be used in the same sentence. This is a guy that wouldn't listen to the best trainer in the world against Cory Spinks. What happens when he goes up against a guy that hits twice as hard, and is a natural middleweight? Taylor likes to throw punches, so I expect it to be good. But I don't know whether or not he can take them, or land them accurately.

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08-22-2007, 10:48 PM
  #99
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Ever seen the Damon Wayans movie "the great white hype"? Kelly Pavlik is the white guy in that movie.
Hopkins was a technician in a non-tradition sense. His rough house tactics were part of his science. As far as beating up wealterweights goes, he certainly looked good at a higher weight against Tarver, didn't he?

I agree that Ali is overrated. Claiming he was boring is just stupid.

Taylor has boxing skill? Really? Go back and watch. You have no idea what you are talking about. The man has no craft. He is a terrible boxer. He's a fantastic athlete, he wants to win, and he's a tough kid, but he is not a good boxer. Kelly Pavlike, on the other hand, while fighting like a white guy(stationary head, flat feet, plodding style, ect.), has some exception boxing ability. His combinations, the way he works angles, how he find his range, his patience, it's all there. Taylor could win this fight if he were to expose some of Pavlik's shortcomings, but luckily for Pavlik, I don't think Taylor has the know how. That's the thing with Jermaine. If he could ever figure out what he was doing in there, he could be great. The way I see it, though, he should've been a wide receiver or a safety instead of a boxer.

You win fights by winning rounds. If you don't like the way boxing matches are scored, well that's just too bad. Hopkins won more rounds. A lot more rounds. Chances? Give me a break. You don't watch an entire fight and then pick a "winner" at the very end. You pick a winner each round. That's just the way it is. Sorry.

Pavlik is hyped? That's news to me. Taylor is the hype. He's all hype.

Do you know of a way we can legally bet on this fight over the internet? I'd like to put a hundred or two on my horse. I'd prefer to bet against you, but if it's not possible, maybe we could just place seperate bets. Do you know anything about this, or have any interest?

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08-22-2007, 10:51 PM
  #100
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If Kelly Pavlik fights the way he did against Miranda then I see Taylor getting beaten easily. Taylor will be forced to fight, and this time around he will have a true puncher hitting him on his face and to the body. Taylor better give the boxing performance of his life if he even wants to survive 4 rounds.

However, with the above being said, Pavlik has tendencies that Taylor can expose with his quickness and combos. But I would like to think Kelly knows this and is working hard on limiting Taylors chances. This fight is a gut check for Taylor and Pavlik.

One is trying to find out if he has what it takes to be a champ and the other is a champ trying to prove that he has what it takes to stay there.
Pavlik does need a lot of work. The first thing he needs is a new team. In fact, Emanuel Steward would actually be pretty perfect for him. I doubt Steward has any interest in training Taylor again, anyway. The fight is too soon for that now, I guess. Too bad.

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