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What is Satan value ???

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01-02-2004, 10:45 AM
  #1
MBJets
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What is Satan value ???

Who will be after Satan and who will they give up???

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01-02-2004, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBJets
Who will be after Satan and who will they give up???

Nobody.

$ are extremely tight around the NHL right now and there are unlikely to be any teams that are willing to step up and absorb his contract in the hopes they he'll score consistently again.

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01-02-2004, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Nobody.

$ are extremely tight around the NHL right now and there are unlikely to be any teams that are willing to step up and absorb his contract in the hopes they he'll score consistently again.
dunno... I think a team like Vancouver could be interested... he makes a lot of sense to me (given that Naslund has another year on his contract and has hinted at leaving, so Satan would be a good transition player).

his salary is high, but at the deadline a lot of it is paid, and it could be justified if the club feels his addition means more playoff revenue... the team overall is pretty solid now financially.

of course there are CBA implications with the cap, but with so many players on 1-year deals now, it might be a fit.

having said that I do think that his contract and current production will have implications on his value...

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01-02-2004, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
dunno... I think a team like Vancouver could be interested... he makes a lot of sense to me (given that Naslund has another year on his contract and has hinted at leaving, so Satan would be a good transition player).

his salary is high, but at the deadline a lot of it is paid, and it could be justified if the club feels his addition means more playoff revenue... the team overall is pretty solid now financially.

of course there are CBA implications with the cap, but with so many players on 1-year deals now, it might be a fit.

having said that I do think that his contract and current production will have implications on his value...

I doubt that VCR has that kind of room on their payroll. And, btw, Satan is signed for next season as well. If he gets hurt this year, VCR will be on the hook for his salary during the lockout. That is another reason I don't think he'll get dealt.

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01-02-2004, 11:14 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I doubt that VCR has that kind of room on their payroll. And, btw, Satan is signed for next season as well. If he gets hurt this year, VCR will be on the hook for his salary during the lockout. That is another reason I don't think he'll get dealt.
well Van's payroll is around $41mill right now... Nonis has gone on record saying the team will be after salary dumps by the deadline, and are looking for a 20-30 goal scorer to add to the team.

I know that Satan is signed for next season, but we have salaries that may be dropped for next season to give some room (specifically Hedberg's $1.2 which will be replaced with Auld's $500K)... so there could be room there - and management has stated that they will add to their payroll if the right player is there.

the other thing that interests me in this is Naslund's situation, combined with the team's positioning... adding a player that could replace Naslund's role (offensive winger) makes sense, and moreso when you consider where the team is - if they believe they are close to filling all their pieces, you add a player like that now, and hope that you have one or two season run with that player.

another key point is that Burke had apparently shown interest in Satan at last season's deadline, but felt the price was too high (and it may be less now, given his production + contract).

as far as the injury factor and the team having to pay him next year if this happens... not sure about this at all... I would think that insurance plays a part in this... and still if this was a major concern, then why would the team try and sign all their key players early, and to multiyear contracts?? wouldn't it make more sense to sign everyone to 1-year deals, rather than give guys like Bertuzzi, Jovo, Linden longterm deals (and do them all before the offseason)? the team has also continued negotiating with other players, now working on Cooke (who has 2 yrs left on his deal).

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01-02-2004, 12:14 PM
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every team needing offense. his a good and amazing player when on form. teams like atlanta, Boston, ottawa's LW (he can play both wings), many more.

his $ is high, but teams like altanta can afford that, and for 75+ points every season, possibly more with a good supporting cast, his worth it.

his avaiable for the right price, that being a 1st liner with grit. gritty pysical players we need. a 1st liner/no.1 defender/no.1 goaltender.

his highly valued. all star dont forget, and nominee

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01-02-2004, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBJets
Who will be after Satan and who will they give up???

What Southeast Division teams still have a lot of games with Washington on their schedule? There's your answer right there (3 games, 6 G 2 A 8 TP)

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01-02-2004, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Nobody.
Simply not true. He'll be a hot commodity come the trading deadline when a good portion of this season's salary has already been absorbed by Buffalo. Regier may not get the return he's looking for but numerous teams will be interested.

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01-02-2004, 12:18 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
well Van's payroll is around $41mill right now... Nonis has gone on record saying the team will be after salary dumps by the deadline, and are looking for a 20-30 goal scorer to add to the team.

I know that Satan is signed for next season, but we have salaries that may be dropped for next season to give some room (specifically Hedberg's $1.2 which will be replaced with Auld's $500K)... so there could be room there - and management has stated that they will add to their payroll if the right player is there.

the other thing that interests me in this is Naslund's situation, combined with the team's positioning... adding a player that could replace Naslund's role (offensive winger) makes sense, and moreso when you consider where the team is - if they believe they are close to filling all their pieces, you add a player like that now, and hope that you have one or two season run with that player.

another key point is that Burke had apparently shown interest in Satan at last season's deadline, but felt the price was too high (and it may be less now, given his production + contract).

as far as the injury factor and the team having to pay him next year if this happens... not sure about this at all... I would think that insurance plays a part in this... and still if this was a major concern, then why would the team try and sign all their key players early, and to multiyear contracts?? wouldn't it make more sense to sign everyone to 1-year deals, rather than give guys like Bertuzzi, Jovo, Linden longterm deals (and do them all before the offseason)? the team has also continued negotiating with other players, now working on Cooke (who has 2 yrs left on his deal).
you haveto get rid of a defender, and contracts will decrease next season, so people like jovo will have smaller salaries. i think the nucks have the room, but who for?

plus satan is rarely injured. he held the 4th longest streak for an active player till a 3 game injury last december. nucks have the high offense style satan could really perform in.

a player of arvedson's quality, even tho his unavaiable.

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01-02-2004, 12:20 PM
  #10
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Please don't turn this thread into a Satan to Vancouver debate! That topic has been driven into the ground!!

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01-02-2004, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
Simply not true. He'll be a hot commodity come the trading deadline when a good portion of this season's salary has already been absorbed by Buffalo. Regier may not get the return he's looking for but numerous teams will be interested.
dont forget people satan's salary is what his WORTH at his best. but anyway, what you say maybe true, reiger would probably want a 1st line 20+ goal scorer with a pysical precense, sorta a 20+ goal scorer power forward, know any that arnt named iginla (i wish)?

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01-02-2004, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
Please don't turn this thread into a Satan to Vancouver debate! That topic has been driven into the ground!!
sorry.

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01-02-2004, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresRule
every team needing offense. his a good and amazing player when on form. teams like atlanta, Boston, ottawa's LW (he can play both wings), many more.

his $ is high, but teams like altanta can afford that, and for 75+ points every season, possibly more with a good supporting cast, his worth it.

his avaiable for the right price, that being a 1st liner with grit. gritty pysical players we need. a 1st liner/no.1 defender/no.1 goaltender.

his highly valued. all star dont forget, and nominee
I don't think you get close to that in value for Satan...

he's also a $5mill player (which alone decreases his value), and has struggled this year... there are also red flags with GMs with his contract negotiations this year... and after signing a lucrative deal, his play has gone downhill this year.

Satan will be moved if the Sabres want to move his salary... otherwise teams won't be giving up value based on what he does on the ice exclusively (in a career year alone, while ignore all other years)... he's either a salary dump at deadline time, or will remain a sabre.

I doubt you agree with this however... but then again, you might want to look into the situation a lot closer... start with trying to justify how a supposedly "75+ point player *every year*" has had one season at 75 points (his career high) last season... he's on pace for much less than that this year... around 45 pts, likely why he's being mentioned as a guy who the Sabres could move.

think more reasonably he's a 25-30 goal, 65-70 pt winger making $5mill a year - pretty decent totals, but in today's NHL market, that's not going to bring back a lot in trade.

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01-02-2004, 12:25 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresRule
sorry.
That wasn't personal...just in general.

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01-02-2004, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
Simply not true. He'll be a hot commodity come the trading deadline when a good portion of this season's salary has already been absorbed by Buffalo. Regier may not get the return he's looking for but numerous teams will be interested.

I doubt it.

He'll still have a five million contract for next year and most teams are wary of adding big $ players that are still under contract after this year.

I do think you might bet a pick or prospects at the deadline, but you'll never get anything close to fair value. Sabres are essentially in the same position with Satan as the Isles are with Peca.

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01-02-2004, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
I don't think you get close to that in value for Satan...

he's also a $5mill player (which alone decreases his value), and has struggled this year... there are also red flags with GMs with his contract negotiations this year... and after signing a lucrative deal, his play has gone downhill this year.

Satan will be moved if the Sabres want to move his salary... otherwise teams won't be giving up value based on what he does on the ice exclusively (in a career year alone, while ignore all other years)... he's either a salary dump at deadline time, or will remain a sabre.

I doubt you agree with this however... but then again, you might want to look into the situation a lot closer... start with trying to justify how a supposedly "75+ point player *every year*" has had one season at 75 points (his career high) last season... he's on pace for much less than that this year... around 45 pts, likely why he's being mentioned as a guy who the Sabres could move.

think more reasonably he's a 25-30 goal, 65-70 pt winger making $5mill a year - pretty decent totals, but in today's NHL market, that's not going to bring back a lot in trade.
we could get someone of iginla's talent and salary for him, but isnt iginla UFA after seasons end? not sure.

alright, his a 70+ point producer, has been for 3 seasons. his known for slight slumps, the last 1 was his worst EVER. his struggled this year when his captaincy was removed, i dont know what caused it, and no-one of us do or will. but either way his still a guy who's on every unit, produces 70+ points every year, and probably will this year, end of year surge an all. i doubt he will move. the sabres payroll is around $33mill, about what a cap would be. we have no reason to dump salary.

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01-02-2004, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresRule
we could get someone of iginla's talent and salary for him, but isnt iginla UFA after seasons end? not sure.

alright, his a 70+ point producer, has been for 3 seasons. his known for slight slumps, the last 1 was his worst EVER. his struggled this year when his captaincy was removed, i dont know what caused it, and no-one of us do or will. but either way his still a guy who's on every unit, produces 70+ points every year, and probably will this year, end of year surge an all. i doubt he will move. the sabres payroll is around $33mill, about what a cap would be. we have no reason to dump salary.
I agree you maybe able to get a player like Iginla for him... but then again a $7.5mill Iginla, who has a possibility of becoming a UFA after this season (the Flames have to qualify him at $7.5 mill this year I think? or it might be $7, if that's his salary for the year) isn't worth a lot either at this stage.

not saying that he's worth nothing... but looking for a top line player in return is unlikely... why would a team pay that?? why not just keep their top liner?

as for his point production.. good to see you bring his totals down, but again the correct totals are even less than that - he has not been a 70+ point producer for 3 seasons... has had 75 last year, 73 the year before, and 62 before that (his previous high before 73 was 67 two years before)... I have my doubts that he hits 70+ points this year... he'll need to hit 49 pts in 44 games - which is a better ppg pace than he's had in his best seasons...

also of concern with his play this year is that he's a team worst -12 this year.... needless to say he'd had a pretty lousy year - and it'd be much worse if you take out his last game where he scored a hattrick.

as far as payrolls and caps/budgets etc... sure the Sabres can afford him... I don't think that's a concern... it's not like they have to move him to save salary or anything...

the concern though is that do you want a player struggling like that taking up $5mill of your payroll this year and next??

that's really the bottom line with him... he's only going to move if the Sabres feel that at his salary he's not worth what he's bringing to the club... payroll and budgets is a non-issue in this case IMO...

and what teams give is going to be reflective of his salary, his play at both ends, and the CBA situation.

in the end, I'd bet on him remaining a Sabre this year.

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01-02-2004, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
He'll be a hot commodity come the trading deadline

Doubtful. There will be teams interested, but only a handful could afford his salary, even less would be willing to give up value for him, and even less need a soft, scoring winger. Vancouver should be interested, but not too many other teams can afford to part with assets and add his salary heading into a new CBA.

Quote:
when a good portion of this season's salary has already been absorbed by Buffalo. Regier may not get the return he's looking for but numerous teams will be interested.
He's still signed for next season though.

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01-02-2004, 01:54 PM
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Alright so let's cut the crap...

what will the Rags offer for Satan??

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01-02-2004, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
Alright so let's cut the crap...

what will the Rags offer for Satan??
Anson Carter and Tom Poti?

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01-02-2004, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Anson Carter and Tom Poti?

sounds about right.

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01-02-2004, 02:16 PM
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sounds about right.
Two overpriced bums for another.

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01-02-2004, 02:20 PM
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Carter + Lampman for Satan

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01-02-2004, 02:21 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
I agree you maybe able to get a player like Iginla for him... but then again a $7.5mill Iginla, who has a possibility of becoming a UFA after this season (the Flames have to qualify him at $7.5 mill this year I think? or it might be $7, if that's his salary for the year) isn't worth a lot either at this stage.

not saying that he's worth nothing... but looking for a top line player in return is unlikely... why would a team pay that?? why not just keep their top liner?

as for his point production.. good to see you bring his totals down, but again the correct totals are even less than that - he has not been a 70+ point producer for 3 seasons... has had 75 last year, 73 the year before, and 62 before that (his previous high before 73 was 67 two years before)... I have my doubts that he hits 70+ points this year... he'll need to hit 49 pts in 44 games - which is a better ppg pace than he's had in his best seasons...

also of concern with his play this year is that he's a team worst -12 this year.... needless to say he'd had a pretty lousy year - and it'd be much worse if you take out his last game where he scored a hattrick.

as far as payrolls and caps/budgets etc... sure the Sabres can afford him... I don't think that's a concern... it's not like they have to move him to save salary or anything...

the concern though is that do you want a player struggling like that taking up $5mill of your payroll this year and next??

that's really the bottom line with him... he's only going to move if the Sabres feel that at his salary he's not worth what he's bringing to the club... payroll and budgets is a non-issue in this case IMO...

and what teams give is going to be reflective of his salary, his play at both ends, and the CBA situation.

in the end, I'd bet on him remaining a Sabre this year.
i was as well, i was mearly saying about his value, not trade likines.

his still a 30 year old 70 point producer every year, this year was a bad year, everyone has them, but his still an elite all star winger, and tho his at $5mill this year and next, im sure at the deadline teams will want him for scoring in the playoffs, and then trade him back, or somewhere else IF they need to trim salary, some might not need to after UFA losses and retirements, dont forget people like Hull, Sakic, might retire and lindstrom might go back to finland/sweden/norway, wereever he came from (sorry, i just dont remember), so after that lot, salaries on someteams will be very low.

either way, he PROBABLY wont go this season.

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01-02-2004, 02:39 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresRule
i was as well, i was mearly saying about his value, not trade likines.

his still a 30 year old 70 point producer every year, this year was a bad year, everyone has them, but his still an elite all star winger, and tho his at $5mill this year and next, im sure at the deadline teams will want him for scoring in the playoffs, and then trade him back, or somewhere else IF they need to trim salary, some might not need to after UFA losses and retirements, dont forget people like Hull, Sakic, might retire and lindstrom might go back to finland/sweden/norway, wereever he came from (sorry, i just dont remember), so after that lot, salaries on someteams will be very low.

either way, he PROBABLY wont go this season.

Satan was never an "elite all star winger." In his prime, he was a defensively responsible winger that could get 25 - 30 goals, maybe a bit more. A very good winger, yes, but not a great one. And, saying he is "a 70 point producer every year" is a bit off when you consider that he hit that level only twice in his career and his unlikely to come close this year.

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