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Old
07-17-2007, 02:16 AM
  #1
Beacon
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Trade Ideas

What do you think about dealing Montoya, Tyutin and 2008 #1 for D prospect Johnson (from either St. Louis or Los Angeles, both are top, blue-chip prospects).

Johnson and Staal would then be the Rangers top pair until about 2020, barring injury or mishandled free agency. Pasta would be #3. People like Girardi, Pock, Baranka, Sauer, etc (and Rozsie for the next few years) would round out the team's defense.

No, I'm not desperate to deal Montoya. I don't believe Sather should just dump him. But instead of getting someone old to help our D, I would really like to see one of the top 2 prospects in the world step in and play for the Rangers in this year... and that would require Sather to give up a top prospect.

LA and St. Louis could both use a blue-chip goalie prospect like Monty. Tyutin would be somewhat of a replace for Johnson. And the #1 pick will probably be late next year.

Either Johnson should be a solid player next year. Maybe not a superstar immediately, but definitely a top 4 dman. With Staal and Johnson (and Girardi full-time), NYR would have a significantly improved defense over last year, with an even better defense corps in the coming years as the kids mature.

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Old
07-17-2007, 02:23 AM
  #2
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Not a terrible idea, but to me, right now Tyutin is better than either of the Johnson's because he's proved his worth at the NHL level and neither of the Johnson's have yet. I wouldn't give up a defenseman with such high potential as Tyutin has AND a potential franchise goaltender in Montoya for a supposed blue-chipper. Even if he turns out to be better than Tyutin, will he really be THAT much better than Tyutin that we gave up Montoya as well to get him? Only time will tell, but I don't think now is the right time for this move.

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07-17-2007, 03:17 AM
  #3
Beacon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretzky-StaalFor07 View Post
Not a terrible idea, but to me, right now Tyutin is better than either of the Johnson's because he's proved his worth at the NHL level and neither of the Johnson's have yet. I wouldn't give up a defenseman with such high potential as Tyutin has AND a potential franchise goaltender in Montoya for a supposed blue-chipper. Even if he turns out to be better than Tyutin, will he really be THAT much better than Tyutin that we gave up Montoya as well to get him? Only time will tell, but I don't think now is the right time for this move.
To me, Tyutin is a #4 dman with a #3 dman potential. Both Johnsons should be #1 defensemen, with #2 as their "floor". Their ceiling is All Star. So in effect, the Rangers would be exchanging a 3-4 dman for a Dman who will be anywhere from #2 to All Star.

Now if Tyutin turns into a #3 dman and Johnson into a #2 dman, then giving up Montoya and a pick will be way too much. But that's the chance you have to take. Imagine if Johnson becomes the next Lidstrom or Pronger, while Tyutin remains a #4 dman, while Montoya would be just an average starter or even worse? How good would the trade look then?

Cloutier was also extremely highly touted in 95-98, and Corey Hirsch was considered a blue-chipper from 1992 to 1994.

Goalies bust A LOT.

In 1994, four goalies were drafted and at one point or another, all were projected to be superstars. Jamie Storr was drafted #8, apparently only because nobody in those years believed in drafting goalies early. Ryabchikov then made the Bruins and played great, but quickly turned into nobody. When Isles acquired Fichaud, he was supposed to be their franchise goalie. Islander fans were bewildered when M&M drafted Roberto Luongo because it was so clear that Eric-the-Fish would be their franchise goalie. And Cloutier too was projected to be the Rangers franchise goalie. Not one of those four who were drafted in 1994, once touted as the best draft year for goaltenders, became anything. Cloutier is probably the best of the bunch, and he's arguably the worst starter in the NHL. (Is he still a starter?)

The general rule of thumb for prospects is that F are the safest, followed by D, followed by G.


Last edited by Beacon: 07-17-2007 at 03:24 AM.
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Old
07-17-2007, 06:05 AM
  #4
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I think the theory behind the trade is a interesting one but specifically Erik Johnson is considered a really elite/rare talent. He is up there in talent with Phaneuf so i dont think they'd trade. The more likely trade would be with LA for Jack Johnson who are alot more desperate for a G than STL as they have Sandford, Legace and the future starter in Marek Schwarz... I think, considering how good Staal can be, i'd rather keep the 1st for next year in a very good draft year than pay too much for either player.

One thing to remember is, if Jack Johnson was really that elite and a bona-fide no. 1 D man of the future (so im talking a dead cert) would Carolina have given him up for what amounts to Tim Gleason????

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07-17-2007, 07:09 AM
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I'd do it for Erik definitely, but not Jack..

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07-17-2007, 08:38 AM
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No way. Montoya is a blue chip prospect, so we'd be trading blue chipper for blue chipper PLUS giving away our best all-around defenseman and a first rounder? I'll pass.

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07-17-2007, 08:47 AM
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No way. Montoya is a blue chip prospect, so we'd be trading blue chipper for blue chipper PLUS giving away our best all-around defenseman and a first rounder? I'll pass.

i second that its like 1 step forward 3 steps backwards

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07-17-2007, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
To me, Tyutin is a #4 dman with a #3 dman potential. .
That makes no sense to me, if your a #4 or a #3 your still a second pairing d-man. To me it makes as much sense as giving up a 2008 1st rounder,with Montoya and Tyutin, for a prospect who hasnt played a single NHL game or has but has not really proven a thing yet.

Somethings never fail to amaze me.

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07-17-2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
No way. Montoya is a blue chip prospect, so we'd be trading blue chipper for blue chipper PLUS giving away our best all-around defenseman and a first rounder? I'll pass.
exactly

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07-17-2007, 01:12 PM
  #10
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take out the 1st round pick, and that would be fine

Montoya + Tyutin for Erik Johnson

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07-17-2007, 01:48 PM
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Say Henrik wants Joel to play with him in New York. What would the Rangers give?

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07-17-2007, 01:49 PM
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you guys are crazy

first off didn't both teams just draft goaltenders in the first round within the past couple years?

from both a rangers standpoint and the other teams standpoint, both deals make little sense

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07-17-2007, 02:13 PM
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I Am Chariot
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Say Henrik wants Joel to play with him in New York. What would the Rangers give?

To Dallas : Malik/Mara, Nigel Dawes, Jarko Immomen + Canes 3rd rounder

To NYR : Joel Lundqvist and Sergie Zubov

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Old
07-17-2007, 02:31 PM
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If you think Dallas is parting with Lehtinen, Zubov, or Modano before they all-out retire, you're higher than Jerry Garcia!

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Old
07-17-2007, 03:32 PM
  #15
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Old
07-17-2007, 04:13 PM
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Both have Bernier and Schwartz. They don't need Montoya.

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Old
07-17-2007, 04:52 PM
  #17
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blues/kings hang up laughing.

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