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Canes re-acquire Cullen for Hutchinson, Barnes, 3rd in 2008

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Old
07-18-2007, 12:31 PM
  #76
What the Faulk
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And who was signed for the 2.4 million that's any better than what's left?

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07-18-2007, 12:53 PM
  #77
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And who was signed for the 2.4 million that's any better than what's left?
Not including the money we just got Cullen for via that trade... Sydor and Aaron Miller, especially Aaron Miller at the price he went for.

Who's left that's worth it? Danny Markov and Ossi Vanannen maybe. I wouldn't be shocked to see Tanabe back either.


Last edited by DaveG: 07-18-2007 at 01:02 PM.
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07-18-2007, 01:06 PM
  #78
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... well that certainly would have been nice to know two-three weeks ago when there were still a few decent UFA d-men available.
I just want Bret Hedican to announce his retirement already. I think he will, he doesn't need to risk the comfort of the rest of his life for one season of hockey. I believe they said if he were to re-injure the same injury that bothered him last season, it could do permanent damage. That's some nice cap room that could be used to improve this team for the present and future.

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07-18-2007, 01:11 PM
  #79
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Hedican needs to make up his mind now...

From TSN some of the D still remaining to be signed...


Danny Markov, meanwhile, is arguably the top defenceman left on the unrestricted market. Others available include Andy Sutton, Brent Sopel, David Tanabe, Patrice Brisebois, Bryan Berard, Janne Niinimaa and Nolan Pratt.

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07-18-2007, 01:12 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by JustJoe2k5 View Post
I just want Bret Hedican to announce his retirement already. I think he will, he doesn't need to risk the comfort of the rest of his life for one season of hockey. I believe they said if he were to re-injure the same injury that bothered him last season, it could do permanent damage. That's some nice cap room that could be used to improve this team for the present and future.
Nick Schultz would certainly be a nice addition should Minnesota walk from the arbitration award.

As for the remaining UFA defensemen wisssh listed, the only ones I would want no part of are Niinimaa and Sutton, the rest would make nice additions to this team.

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07-18-2007, 02:39 PM
  #81
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I wouldn't be shocked to see Tanabe back either.
You know, losing Hutchinson might make that more of a possibility. Tanabe has some puck moving attributes that we might need.

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07-18-2007, 02:41 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by JustJoe2k5 View Post
I just want Bret Hedican to announce his retirement already. I think he will, he doesn't need to risk the comfort of the rest of his life for one season of hockey. I believe they said if he were to re-injure the same injury that bothered him last season, it could do permanent damage. That's some nice cap room that could be used to improve this team for the present and future.
Agree with this. He'll always be up there in the Canes pantheon, but if he can't be 100% for us, he needs to hang them up. For his sake and ours. We can't afford to have him on the shelf for much of the year or even playing less than 80%.

Its the Niedermeyer situation (as in waiting on a retirement decision), ratcheted down

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07-18-2007, 03:06 PM
  #83
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I would hate to see Hamilton going down to the fourth line, because I thought he would fill in Cullen's role fairly well. However, Cullen was a beast when he played here, and while I'm saddened to see Hutchinson and Barnes go, I think he will help our team out. Now we have two shootout artists to fear.

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07-18-2007, 03:18 PM
  #84
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How funny would it be if the Habs signed Tanabe and the Canes signed Niiniima.

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07-18-2007, 03:31 PM
  #85
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I'd be heartbroken if you guys landed Snuggles. I think I would cry for days.

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07-18-2007, 04:17 PM
  #86
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Wouldn't that require the Habs doing something in the off season?

Actually, looking over it Tanabe would fit right in with their overpaid Dmen....

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07-18-2007, 05:27 PM
  #87
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But yet we won the Cupp! (seems like i remember him acquiring hedican & k. adams for a bag of pucks-among other good deals)
well thats my point really. 13 years and you can count the real good deals on one hand. if there wasnt a cup and one cup run we could go back to the debate on how a guy with such little success still has a gm job for so long when most guys with the previous amount of success dont last 3 or 4 years. if i had only been a fan for 5 years i would think he's the bees knees.

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07-18-2007, 05:36 PM
  #88
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JR got a five year break from me beating my head against the wall when he brought us the Cup and pulled the trigger on the deals to get us there. That took a lot of fortitude. I would love to get back there, but I think he has us headed in the right direction at the moment. He has a plan, and i'm sure that half the teams in the league wish they could say that about their team.

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07-18-2007, 05:51 PM
  #89
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well thats my point really. 13 years and you can count the real good deals on one hand. if there wasnt a cup and one cup run we could go back to the debate on how a guy with such little success still has a gm job for so long when most guys with the previous amount of success dont last 3 or 4 years. if i had only been a fan for 5 years i would think he's the bees knees.
Until 02, the 'Canes are in the conversation of most inept major NA pro sports franchise, with one play-off series victory to its credit.

Then for the next two years I would say, "except for one lucky play-off run, the 'Canes are in the conversation of most inept major NA pro sports franchise".

But a Cup has healed all of my old wounds.

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07-18-2007, 07:13 PM
  #90
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Found this on youtube, its a Welcome Back Cullen vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf3bZIjvErg

And atleast Cully won't be able to do this to us again this year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0eHRb8KYMA

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07-18-2007, 08:16 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
well thats my point really. 13 years and you can count the real good deals on one hand. if there wasnt a cup and one cup run we could go back to the debate on how a guy with such little success still has a gm job for so long when most guys with the previous amount of success dont last 3 or 4 years. if i had only been a fan for 5 years i would think he's the bees knees.
maybe he is getting better w/ age---plus he probably has had a better budget to work with- i don't want to list all the deals he has made good or weak but it seems the weaker deals (malik to the nucks for ex) pale in comparison to the good deals (getting hedican and k adams for parts sticks w/ me) plus signing stillman and whitney among others (i thought acquiring markov at the time was good also) though i like gleason a lot if jj develops into a monster that one will sting for several years. because of the 02 cup run and the 06 cupp he has earned a lot of rope with me- plus they have acquired and are acquiring parts that fit a fast entertaining style that puts the puck in the net and is fun to watch and has proven to play our way into contention. i remember too well the days of struggling to score and our main goal was to squeak into the playoffs and i like the higher bar that has been set- i have the feeling that this team will not willingly take a backseat to anyone.

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07-19-2007, 02:40 AM
  #92
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i believe the budget has increased the O2 to his brain, but it hasnt stopped him from making desperate deals to get what he wants. we can argue all day about the jj deal, and how much we like gleason but we all know he panicked trying to maintain the cup momentum and it could haunt us for a decade. the cullen trade is a desperate one, too - of course the stakes arent nearly as high. his moves for recchi and weight helped win the cup so awesome, but they are typical jr moves with thrown in picks and young players making sure he clearly outbid everyone. if we got knocked out in the first round those two trades would be on everyones list of awful jr trades and they would fit in right next to jj/pronger/tanabe-knyazev trades. i could go on all day about the bad ones, and there are only a small handful of good ones.

as the wood eloquently put it: the cup heals the wounds. i have gotten off jr's back for a season because he gets the reprieve. i do believe this years team has a shot. i do also think he will pawn off pieces we all view as invaluable for role players if he thinks they will help.

for those of you guys who are newer and dont know me ill just sum up. im an old school whalers guy who still roots for his team. id dont care if we win the cup. i know everyone thinks its sacrilege to say it, but ill say it again. i dont care if we win the cup. after being a whaler fan for all the years of my life and now a fan of a team that gets crapped on even more than the whalers did i only want on thing. consistent respectability. i want to be in the playoffs every year. i want to be the avs, wings, devils etc..teams that are so well run that its just known that unless disaster strikes the team will be in the playoffs.

i hate the whole lets blow our load with vets and screw ourselves for 3 years trying to win now with a team we arent even sure about. i hate the draft picks and prospects dont win cups, players do philosophy. Does lou say that? the avs gave up young guys to win the cup, but they drafted so well it made up for it. they had four first rounders one year! it takes vision to win long term. i think jr and co lack vision. i think they always have, and i think lighting struck a couple of years ago and everything fell into place. i think we were lucky as hell in 2002, that team was pretty boring, it just played a great trap in an awful division and rode a hot goalie in the playoffs. i have a hard time getting pumped rooting for a team that could go all the way this year, and completely miss the playoffs the next (which we did after 2002 as well). the reason we are successful is because we sucked so bad we got staal, traded a prima donna prospect (pronger) for a prima donna cherry picker (shanny) for a prima donna who wanted more spotlight (primeau and coffey - who would only play one or two games before begging to be moved) for a great player(brindy....thats like 5 years and three trades just to get one guy right), went bluelight special shopping and hit the jackpot during the lockout with stillman/whitney/cullen/kaberle. everything jr did well could be viewed as an accident. an accident i jumped up and down for last year when it all paid off.

i do give him credit goalies and dmen. he has a good eye for them, no doubt. rarely does he trade for a dman i dont like a lot. i dont think its happened once in 13 years. hats off for that, cause its impressive. jeff brown/ chaisson/wesley/hedican/ward/ozo (i used to love ozo here in CO, not jr's fault he didnt pan out, but theres another high pick wasted)/ and now gleason/commodore/ and seids. i even liked hutch and babs, they both got screwed and never were really given shots.


rutherford rant of the week is over. thanks for your patience.


Last edited by bleedgreen: 07-19-2007 at 02:45 AM.
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07-19-2007, 08:57 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post

for those of you guys who are newer and dont know me ill just sum up. im an old school whalers guy who still roots for his team. id dont care if we win the cup. i know everyone thinks its sacrilege to say it, but ill say it again. i dont care if we win the cup. after being a whaler fan for all the years of my life and now a fan of a team that gets crapped on even more than the whalers did i only want on thing. consistent respectability. i want to be in the playoffs every year. i want to be the avs, wings, devils etc..teams that are so well run that its just known that unless disaster strikes the team will be in the playoffs.
Here here!

One Stanley Cup followed by a lackluster team with players who should have been at least capable of making the 8th seed does not make me happy. And don't forget that was prefaced by 2002 and then finishing out the next year DEAD LAST.

I'm tired of streaks of overachieving. I would much rather have consistency and have RESPECT for our team then be known as the flukey Cinderella team that only won the cup by luck. Everything positive the team did in 06 by winning the cup fell apart in my eyes when they played as ****** as they did this past season. Call me crazy but that's just my opinion of it.

Trading away TOP prospects (REGARDLESS IF THE RUMOR IS THEY WERE NEVER GOING TO PLAY FOR US ANYWAY) is stupid. Do we have a future to be excited about? In five years is there an impact player we have drafted that has us go "Man, I can't wait to see X play"? No. Our drafting sucks and our managing of players that are handed to us on silver platters via the draft (because we can't seem to draft well if its past the 3rd pick in the first round) SUCKS.

Yes, right now the team looks good. Our defense needs some work but the complete forward lines would make any one's mouth water. But what about next year? And 5 years from now? Who do we have in Albany that's exciting for us to look forward to wearing a Canes jersey? Nothing. I think we are one of the few NHL teams whose AHL team is a bunch of AHLers playing in the AHL. Not a bunch of AHLers being trained to play in the NHL.

And that is my rant.

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07-19-2007, 08:58 AM
  #94
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I agree with Bleedgreen. What I care about most is the long term health of the franchise in the Raleigh area. I personally feel a consistent playoff berth (5+ years) is as important, maybe more so, than a cup win followed by a playoff miss in terms of long term sustained attendance.

Like it or not this area has many bandwagon fans used to pulling for succesful teams and if attendance and thus revenue are going to increase then we need to do a better job of putting a consistent product on the ice. Going to the finals is a good way to boost ticket sales for the next season but letting your FAs then walk, raising ticket prices, and putting a worse product on the ice is a good way to lose those earned fans. We've seen that twice, although to a lesser extent this last season.

This area is too small to disenfranchise the fans by doing this. NY and bigger markets can afford to lose fans like this. Charlotte could not with the Hornets and Raleigh cannot with the Canes.

My rant over.

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07-19-2007, 09:19 AM
  #95
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injuries mainly to our d-men and a severe cup hangover are why we missed out last year--even if we had made it it would have been a short stay and personaly the longer summer was more valuable to these guys to get healed up and ticked off because they missed. also other than JJ we have a pretty good bunch of young guys in the system, he got gleason for JJ and who knows iff JJ would have ever played for us, he may have stayed at michigan for 4 yrs and went back in the draft. i like our position.

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07-19-2007, 01:29 PM
  #96
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injuries mainly to our d-men and a severe cup hangover are why we missed out last year--even if we had made it it would have been a short stay and personaly the longer summer was more valuable to these guys to get healed up and ticked off because they missed. also other than JJ we have a pretty good bunch of young guys in the system, he got gleason for JJ and who knows iff JJ would have ever played for us, he may have stayed at michigan for 4 yrs and went back in the draft. i like our position.
I am happy with our situation as well. It does not even bother me that we missed the playoffs last season. They did need the rest and we picked up a pretty good draft pick, Sutter, that I believe will be a great NHL player. Part of my reason for not minding that the Canes missed the playoffs is the fact that I was broke after spending so much the year before going to all the Stanley Cup games (I have 4 seats). But believe me it was worth it I just can't do it every year. I would be very surprised if we miss the playoffs this year.

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07-19-2007, 02:17 PM
  #97
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After reading this page of posts, common sense is returning to the boards....

Still a bad trade. The money is the point, not what we gave up....even though getting rid of the pick on top of everything kills me. Anyhoot, guess I have no choice but to live with this. JR seems to forget that the real problem with this team was the fact that Staal had an off year in which his explosiveness went away and we had some real issues on defense. Oh well, I hope Seidenberg steps up this year because it's the only way of making sure we aren't going to suck again. You can honestly say Kaberle will play better but Wesley & Hedican are question marks. Glenn is solid when he's in the lineup but he's starting to miss a lot of games the past few years. Hedican, I hope he can turn it around just to shut many of you up, but is a huge question mark at this point.

I saw the list of FA defensemen still left above. I doubt we sign one, but thoughts:

Andy Sutton - dude has no skills, and an enormous bonehead
Brent Sopel- dude has skills, but a bonehead
David Tanabe - dude has lukewarm skills that makes you want more, but he's a bonehead. With that said, I wouldn't be too mad if he was brought back because I remembered how well he was playing when he first went to Phoenix and I know that guy is still inside him somewhere.
Patrice Brisebois - I've never been impressed. I had to look on HockeyDB after making this post just to realize he has decent, consistent numbers. He doesn't seem to stand out when I've seen him play...I'm perplexed.
Bryan Berard - he's not good. Don't believe the hype, he's marginal defensively with that eye. Andy Delmore like.
Janne Niinimaa - dude has become a horrendous defenseman. What the hell happened?
Nolan Pratt - Dude is a rock and needs to be brought back. Some say they don't like his skating but I don't think it matters, he gets the job done. Won't happen, though


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07-19-2007, 02:50 PM
  #98
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Markov, Pratt and Vanannen are the three I'd want in the most. All solid defensive players in their own right, and Markov comes with one hell of a nasty streak as we've all seen.

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07-19-2007, 03:43 PM
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Markov, Pratt and Vanannen are the three I'd want in the most. All solid defensive players in their own right, and Markov comes with one hell of a nasty streak as we've all seen.
The only bad thing about Markov is that he is always banged up. With that said, he's the best one out there and if we are in full retread mode then I say he should have never left. Then again, we would have never got Williams without him. Hell, let's go full retread:

-Sign Markov.
-Sign Pratt.
-In a bizarre 3 way deal with the Rangers and Bruins, bring back Malik and Ward.

Course, then we have a problem with having too many defensemen but we also have too many 3rd line centers so I'm sure it's not a stretch for Rutherford.

Not to be too snarky, it would be nice to have Malik back. That guy doesn't seem to be appreciated by Ranger fan anyway.

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07-20-2007, 12:04 AM
  #100
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for those of you guys who are newer and dont know me ill just sum up. im an old school whalers guy who still roots for his team. id dont care if we win the cup. i know everyone thinks its sacrilege to say it, but ill say it again. i dont care if we win the cup. after being a whaler fan for all the years of my life and now a fan of a team that gets crapped on even more than the whalers did i only want on thing. consistent respectability. i want to be in the playoffs every year. i want to be the avs, wings, devils etc..teams that are so well run that its just known that unless disaster strikes the team will be in the playoffs.
Sorry for making my first post a "snarky" one, but I read all the Rutherford bashing going on here and just had to register and post something.

Rutherford isn't perfect, but in my opinion he's one of the best GM's in the league. While some fans hate him no matter what he does, (especially Whalers fans who will never be satisfied anyway, unless Karmanos, Rutherford, and company move the team back to Hartford), I think it's obvious over the past few years that he has made many more good moves than bad. Bleedgreen, you want to be like the avs, wings, and devils? Where were your avs last year? You fail to mention that those teams had unlimited budgets prior to the lockout. Would you agree with me that it's easier to win when you can buy the best players in the game and spend 80 million per year when most of the small market teams are spending 30? Winning the Cup doesn't matter, huh? You'd rather be like the Blues and get into the playoffs 20 years in a row and never even sniff the conference finals let alone the Cup finals? Good for you, I'd rather win the Cup when we get in. Besides, the avs, wings, and devils are the exception in this league, not the norm. Give me more teams you want to be like, the "etc".

So it's Rutherford's fault the team played like crap last year? Please tell us, what should he have done to make them play better? The GM has won the executive of the year award 2 out of the past 5 years, but he's trash right? The people who voted for him are clueless? We've been to the SCF's 2 out of the past 5 years and won the Cup. Most NHL fans would give their first born to trade places with us, but Rutherford is trash? Wait, 2002 was just luck. It doesn't matter we traded to get Sean Hill and Hedican and Weekes who were all key contributors. It didn't matter that some of our worthless draft picks, (because all of our draft picks suck), Erik Cole, Jeff O'Neill, Bates Battaglia, Nic Wallin, Joe Vasicek, all contributed. Or another bad trade, Rod Brind'Amour was there the whole way. Or a couple of old free agents who Rutherford stupidly signed, Ron Francis and Marty Gelinas led the way. it was all luck. but when we lose, it's not luck anymore, it's all Rutherford's fault.

My opinion about this trade is that Hutch, as nice a guy as he is, won't even make the Ranger team. I'll bet he's on waivers in October, maybe even September. Barnes will be lucky to ever play an NHL game. He's still got headaches after his showing last year. The 3rd round pick...well, nobody knows what that will be, but we know who Matt Cullen is and he's sure as hell worth a 3rd round pick. If Michal Handzus is worth 4 million a year for 4 years, Matt Cullen is worth 2.8 for 3.

For those of you so dead set against this trade, who should we have picked up other than Cullen for 2.8? Kyle Calder? Mike York?

Rutherford has obviously made some mistakes, but I think he deserves credit for doing a better than average job the past 5 years. I think some people will moan and groan about him no matter what he does, simply because they don't like him. While I question and analyze Rutherford's moves, I am glad he's our GM and I'm pretty happy with the state of the team. We could be in a lot worse shape! Just my humble opinion.

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