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Official: Cullen to Carolina for D Andrew Hutchinson, F Joe Barnes, 08 3rd

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Old
07-17-2007, 04:35 PM
  #226
mschmidt64
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I think i'll have to say at this point that I want Peca.

They lose Cullen whos a decent Pker and faceoff guy with alot of speed and not so impressive defensive skills.

And would gain a 2 time Selke trphy winner whos a stud on the PK and in the faceoff circle.

I DO NOT feel comfortable having Dubinsky or another prospect come up and faceoff against Crosby on the road 4 times this season.

I'd rather see Peca facing off against him on purpose for 8 games.
Agreed, bring in Peca at $1m, gives you room to sign Avery. Then if you can deal Malik as well, you have freed up room to bring in another D-man.

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07-17-2007, 04:40 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by bobomironov View Post
but why make the move in the first place? we are getting 75 cents on the dollar. all this does is free up cap space at the expense of a part of last year's successful team.

matt cullen was matt cullen last year. he put up decent if not overwhelming numbers. why get rid of him, even if he is overpaid? somebody explain to me how we are better off now?
It's clearly a move for the future. Cullen isn't part of it.

We aren't immediately better as an on-ice product, but it gives us flexibility, which allows us to get better as an on-ice product that we would have been able to had we kept Cullen.

Seriously, if we also trade Malik, then are able to re-sign Avery, sign Peca, sign a defenseman, and extend Lundquist in January, Cullen's trade will have helped facilitate all that, and that makes us a lot better off long term.

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07-17-2007, 04:45 PM
  #228
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Honestly, I'm not crazy about this deal. I thought Cullen played alot better later in the year and was a perfect 3rd line center. I am also one who values chemistry and he seemed like a very good team guy although I realize that he was a small piece of the puzzle.

Still, it seems like he was brought in here because of his experience on the 2006 Cup winners and it is always valuable to have those types of players on your team - especially one that is trying to make a cup run like we are now.

At the same time, I'm not one to say "OMG AFTER ALL TEH GOOD MOVES, ITS NOW A BAD OFFSEASON!!!!!!!!11!!!!". We cleared cap room and this should allow us to re-sign both Hossa and Avery easily. I kind of wish Malik would have been moved instead of Cullen although I think there's a chance he could get moved too. I hope Mara stays though, I thought he was very solid last season (remember him playing goal when Henrik was out of position in game 6).

Also I think this opens the gate for Dubinsky to step in as a 3rd line center and I would have no problem with that. I think there is absolutely no reason to bring in Peca, who is on the down end of his career, and save some money by going with a kid like Dubi who has a ton of potential.

I honestly don't know much about either player. Hutchinson doesn't seem too impressive - kind of a Rachunek/Poti type player from what I am hearing. Barnes is intriguing in that he is so young even though it seems like he has had injury issues.

Bottom line this is a salary dump and I will miss Cullen. He is not exactly the player that is the difference between winning the cup and missing the playoffs, but it's always useful to have the key 3rd and 4th liners in tact when putting together the team.

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07-17-2007, 04:50 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
The bottom line is: were we a better team before the trade or after it? No doubt, before. This trade did not make us better.
So the issue now is 3rd line center: neither Straka or Avery are the answer here. Neither has the unique skills necessary to be a center. A center needs vision, the ability to see the whole ice and to be an effective playmaker. Though Straka is an excellent passer from the wing, he does not have that vision. Renney has tried him many, many times at center only to move him back to the wing after a few shifts, periods or games. Avery doesn't have that skill either; he is most effective agitating along the boards. Both Straka and Avery are wingers, not centers.
So, if we don't sign a free agent center (and I certainly hope we don't), the player first in line is Dubinsky. Is he ready? I think so: his high energy, involved style of play could be a perfect skill set for a 3rd line center. Hope he gets first crack at it.
by your very definition, Cullen is a TERRIBLE choice for center.

which is why im a-ok with him being gone, and dubinsky or a f/a being brought in.

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07-17-2007, 04:52 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
What a fiasco by Sather and the Ranger front office....a complete mismanaging of the cap situation.
We would have been much better off with Nylander/Gomez or Drury/Cullen than we are now with Gomez/Drury/Dubinsky.
Not a knock on Dubinsky who I love.
If you ask me, Sather had offers out to Drury and Gomez, hoping to get only one, and when both accepted the Rangers offer within the time frame, it was a case of "oops, what do we do now?"
Hold the Cup celebration, pretty soon we'll be complaining about a lack of secondary scoring from the 3rd line and wishing for Cullen back.
Oh, come on.

This organization had NO TOP LINE CENTER PROSPECTS.

We needed some fairly young, high level centers. Gomez and Drury give us just that. Meanwhile we have a million fowards in our system that can all become Cullen-like 3rd and 4th line players.

This offseason's trade-off of Cullen and Nylander for Drury and Gomez makes total sense. Letting your farm system (which has a strength in 3rd-4th line forwards) fill the hole that Cullen leaves behind makes total sense, because none of those prospects had first line potential (notwithstanding Cherepanov and possibly Bourret, but neither of them are centers).

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07-17-2007, 04:54 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Keep Hutch, I'll take Barnes and make the 3rd a 2nd rounder.

I personally would have preferred to have kept Cullen because while he's not the ideal shut down type center, in this more free-flowing style of NHL, having a 3rd line center like Cullen is better than having cap flexibility at his expense.

Now, we lost pretty much our 2 best PK'ers in Cully and Orts, also I believe that Cullen was also our best face-off center as well?

Not really happy, think we could have done better by keeping him and dealing him later.

I'll be even less happy if this was done in part to make room for a useless Hossa.
I would have been annoyed if it was Hossa rather than Cullen. I think Hossa is a better fit here as long as we are the Czech National team.

I also think that this means that some combo of Pock, Mara and Malik are headed out with Pock being the most likely suspect. Hutch would appear to make Pock an extra wheel.

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07-17-2007, 04:56 PM
  #232
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Fine with the move, I understand the complaints but they're a bit overboard- which makes me think of the other side of the deal.

Canes basically say they are willing to pay Cullen the contract they wouldnt sign him to last year. Instead of signing him, you loss him for a year, then it costs you a 3rd rounder plus 2 bodies to get him back.

Of course it was tough for the Canes last offseason coming off the Cup, with their roster that much more appealing to other teams, but you had Weight, A Ward etc coming off the cap #. So I'm not saying this trade was a bad move for the Canes, but one can find a reason to complain about anything. Lets relax, and realize we are at the very least one day closer to the start of the season.

And too much turnover?? This is the NHL, look at all teams year by year - you have plenty of changes, yes even before the salary cap. I think the average time for a player to be on one team is 3 years.

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07-17-2007, 05:00 PM
  #233
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I like this move. I never was a big fan of Cullen and I think we got a good return for him. I hope one of our prospects gets a shot at that third line center spot.

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Old
07-17-2007, 05:11 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
Agreed, bring in Peca at $1m, gives you room to sign Avery. Then if you can deal Malik as well, you have freed up room to bring in another D-man.
Getting Peca for 1 Mil is easier said than done, especially after Meehan is his agent and arguably clobbered Sather with the Lundqvist deal for 1 year.

Unless Peca is really interested in that third line center job and willing to take a little less i think more room will have to be cleared in order to sign him.

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07-17-2007, 05:16 PM
  #235
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I like the pickup of Andrew Hutchinson.

I had him on sportingnews fantasy league a few years ago and followed him some.

He got a wristshot most 50 goal scorers only can dream of! He makes allot of really high caliber plays.

I think Hutchinson is the centerpice of this deal, as of now he is a project, but he got potential to take another step, no doubt.

His big problem is his overall skill level. He got a decent step but is a pretty choppy skater, he got decent size but isn't steady on his skates. I would defenitly not compare him with Poti defensivly, Hutchinson got completly diffrent issues defensivly then what Poti had. Hutchinson got big consistency issues, the type who makes 2 big defensive plays and then 2 plays where he goes shoulder to shoulder with a smaller player and falls down or pinches in but reads the situation wrong.

I belive Hutchinson might find a pretty good role on this team with some work. I don't think think Hutchinson can have a Rozsival type of improvement curve, but he got potential to not be far behind. He needs to find his position in the NHL, where he can play within his boundarys defensivly, once he does that I think he could become a pretty valueble - cheap - asset. You need thoose in a cap era. I don't think Hutchinsson will be disliked here, he is more of a Dubinsky on defense.

Its important to look at Hutchinsons age too with some perspective, he really isn't old for a D. Look at guys like McCabe and Sourays development curve. As a 26 y/o Souray had a personal best of 11 pts in the NHL. McCabe had a personal best of 29 pts. Phillip Boucher who finnished top 15 for D's in scoring only had 25 pts as a 26 y/o. Its not unusual that D's like Hutchinson breaks out in their late 20's and reaches their prime when they are closer to 35. Poise and decisionmaking is so extremely important for a D that its possible for them to improve a ton late in their careers, especially with how the league looks right now.

It will be exciting to see Renney and co work with Hutchinson.

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07-17-2007, 05:16 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Getting Peca for 1 Mil is easier said than done, especially after Meehan is his agent and arguably clobbered Sather with the Lundqvist deal for 1 year.

Unless Peca is really interested in that third line center job and willing to take a little less i think more room will have to be cleared in order to sign him.
Well, then let maybe see if Dubinsky can win the job.

Does anyone have a list of other free agents still available?

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07-17-2007, 05:32 PM
  #237
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I'm on the fence about this move honestly, on one hand Cullen's points and general performance last season did not live up to his price tag, but on the other hand he started to play fairly well towards the end of the season, once he settled into his true possition,and that is a third line center. I know this was mainly a salary dump move with a possible solid pick up in Hutchinson, but again i'm very up in the air. I think what is holding me back from being ok with this move is the fact that I dont know much about this Hutchinson guy. Also I would assume that having this hole in the center possition means that there will be either another trade/FA siging or more likley a call up, which i'm all for but does that call up jump into the third line spot, or does Betts move up? I dont know, call me skeptical but I cant help but feel like the loss of both Ortmeyere AND Cullen will hurt the PK next season. I understand that Hossa, Shanny, Avery, Drury, Rozy etc etc still are there and will undoubtedly help, but I just feel like this wasnt a smart move. Hopefully i'm wrong and you all can call me an idiot

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07-17-2007, 05:33 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
im still reading through all the posts, but this sorta just hit me (apologize if its mentioned earlier, im still reading through all this..


another thing that sorta just hit me is this move is GREAT for next year. because now, assuming no other huge contracts come back this way, all the bonuses (or most of em anyways) can be applied to THIS years cap, rather than ham-stringing us next year.
Inferno, just to add to your post- we will also be looking to give Lundqvist his huge payday.. this just makes it that much easier going into the year, without needing to make huge dumps later on-- and a 3rd rounder in a deep draft can almost equate to a 2nd in a shallow draft- plus no one is expecting much out of Carolina(8th seed max), so hopefully it will be on the higher side of the round...

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07-17-2007, 05:52 PM
  #239
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If you put Dubinsky in Cullen's place then we will be in good shape.

Prucha-Dubinsky-Callahan

Speed line.

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07-17-2007, 05:54 PM
  #240
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A lot of people here seem to be overly concerned about the loss of Cullen. Our third line center is far less important to our team if the top lines play as we all feel they are capable. With two loaded offensive lines, we really only need the third line to play solid defensively, forecheck and throw in a goal every once in a while. I don't think that we're incapable of putting together a third line that does exactly that.

Plus, now we have additional cap flexibility for this year should the need arise, and for the future which will help us extend guys like Henke and Tyutin when the time comes.

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07-17-2007, 06:02 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Those upset about personnel turnover, I can see your point even if I don't agree.

Those trying to pitch Cullen as "critical element to the team's success", a "PK specialist" or anything other than an average, easily replaceable player that the organization had overcommitted to are just fooling themselves. I don't ever recall a single post on this board where Cullen was branded as someone who had delivered on expectations and/or filled a role on the team that was desperately needed.

Financial flexibility. How does the discussion not begin and end there?
$8.4 million off the books for the next three years...plus Barnes and a 3rd replacing the one we gave up for Avery...I could care less about Hutchinson. Nicely done, Slats.

Oh, I'm still liking my Mara/Prucha/Pock for Redden proposal...even moreso with more cap room.

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07-17-2007, 06:03 PM
  #242
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After reading some things posted by Canes fans about Hutchinson and from what I know about Cullen I feel a little better about this move, the main advantage is the flexibility which will be nice later on in the season. Color me ok with this move lol

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07-17-2007, 06:26 PM
  #243
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Hutchinson isn't going to be a lot more than he is right now. He will never be anything more than a liability on the defensive end and it's not anything that can be taught. He refuses to take a hit to make a play. He refuses to throw a hit. He refuses to go to high traffic areas in front of the net. He also gets lost when the cycle game gets started.

With that said, his skating isn't as bad as advertised and his offensive game is understated. He'll be a fine 7th defenseman for this club.

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07-17-2007, 06:27 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by g52 View Post
If you put Dubinsky in Cullen's place then we will be in good shape.

Prucha-Dubinsky-Callahan

Speed line.
Cept Dubinsky isn't a speedster.

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07-17-2007, 06:31 PM
  #245
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Hey, forget Nedved...we can always sign Lindros. Maybe he can give Barnes some tips about how to recover from a concussion. I would rather have another draft pick than someone like Barnes who missed almost the whole season with a "major concussion." If its one thing to be said about concussions, it is if you've had one, you're likely to have more.
Nedved, Lindros, Peca....what a collection of losers. Hopefully, after this disaster of a move, they'll at least give Dubinsky a reasonable chance to claim the spot.
How the Hell do you put Lindros in the same sentence as Nedved and Peca! Lindros was very good in Ranger Blue as long as he wasn't injured! He tried like hell....but I guess since he got hurt he gets lumped in with the likes of Nedved....one of the laziest players ever to wear a Ranger UNIFORM!

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07-17-2007, 06:44 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
With that said, his skating isn't as bad as advertised and his offensive game is understated. He'll be a fine 7th defenseman for this club.
We've got plenty of seventh defenseman types. I hope we move this guy in another deal or waive him.

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07-17-2007, 06:51 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by g52 View Post
If you put Dubinsky in Cullen's place then we will be in good shape.

Prucha-Dubinsky-Callahan

Speed line.
not a good idea and renney would never put 2 rookies with a till young and not too good defensive player in prucha

if dubinsky makes it which i hope then i suspect cally will play on the second line with shanny as they did in spurts during the season which were successful or you will have avery or straka on the line with dubi and cally

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07-17-2007, 07:12 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by g52 View Post
If you put Dubinsky in Cullen's place then we will be in good shape.

Prucha-Dubinsky-Callahan

Speed line.
I keep Dubi in the minors to keep developing his offensive game. Greg Moore is a much better option.

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07-17-2007, 07:27 PM
  #249
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While, yes, you are right, you also know that such an argument is not rooted in reality. NO ONE is getting paid $7m to be a 3rd line center. NO ONE.

You know perfectly well that he was brought here to be a center on either the first line (probably not) or the 2nd line (most likely case). I would bet dollars to doughnuts that when the season open, Drury is on the 2nd line. And, frankly, that is is a top-6 forward, recieving top-6 ice time for the entire year.
my point was that regardless of what "line" he plays on, as long as he logs his 18-20 minutes of ice time per game, then we are indeed getting the full value of his contract. people focus way too much on line numbers instead of ice time.

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07-17-2007, 08:33 PM
  #250
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now let me get this straight.

citing one of your reasons, just because cullen was one of the hardest working players on a team full of them he didn't deserve to be moved?

and you'd be comfortable with who for our centers? nylander for not 2 or 3 but 4 years? and who's our 2nd?
Matt Cullen shouldn't have been moved because he wasn't playing in a position that needed to be upgraded...much like Dominic Moore in the prior offseason (although, in that case, a decision had to be made between Betts and Moore...IMO, the selection of Betts was the right move).

It shouldn't be held against Cullen that the team signed him to second line center money...although in his defense, the current second line center of the NYR is making a chunk more than Cullen. Cullen was playing his best hockey of the year with Prucha and Callahan...and that line was regularly outperforming Shanny and Avery's line towards the end of the year and in the POs. Again, why break up a good thing?

As for the first line center, I could try and make a case for resigning Nylander with the $ he wanted, but I totally understand replacing him with Gomez. It's just that they didn't need to sign 2 centers where one would suffice (Straka, Avery could play there also). They overpayed for both of them, and if they don't produce at or above their career averages, the NYR wouldn't have the cap flexibility to address the issue...and that's why I think they traded Cullen...which is a shame, because he did his job very well, was just as valuable as the new signings on the PK, and along with Nylander was a big part of our success in shootouts.

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