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Official: Cullen to Carolina for D Andrew Hutchinson, F Joe Barnes, 08 3rd

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Old
07-17-2007, 07:36 PM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMan82 View Post
While I don't argue that Cullen WAS our best Faceoff guy (54.6), Nyls was by far our worst (47.5)...

The other thing I don't like about this statement is saying Drury played TOP center??? I never viewed Zubrus and Hecht as offensive forces... I remember a few Sabres fans mentioning Drury had marginal talent on his wings throughout the last couple of seasons...
I was referring to shootouts, not faceoffs. Regardless of who he was playing with, he was playing top line minutes at even strength and on the powerplay...for the best offensive team in the league.

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07-17-2007, 07:45 PM
  #252
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If Sather did this, leaving us with no (or very little) 3rd line center options, I would think he either thinks someone in the minors can take the job, or he has another plan. I'd be shocked if he did this not thinking about who takes the 3rd line center. I'm sure this organization has a plan for that.

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07-17-2007, 07:57 PM
  #253
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How the Hell do you put Lindros in the same sentence as Nedved and Peca! Lindros was very good in Ranger Blue as long as he wasn't injured! He tried like hell....but I guess since he got hurt he gets lumped in with the likes of Nedved....one of the laziest players ever to wear a Ranger UNIFORM!
Hey, not really a knock on Lindros...just a recognition of where he is now. I've always had a lot of admiration for the Big E, even when he was in Philly. In his prime, before he was hurt, he was IMO, the perfect hockey player. He had it all: skill, size, skating. Just a monster talent who forced the whole league to adapt to him. We only saw the real Lindros for a few months, from November to December of his first year here with the FLY, "Little Legion" line, one of my favorite alltime Ranger lines. Before he went down with a concussion, the Rangers were in first place and he was a candidate for MVP. Its a shame whats happened to him.
Let you in on a secret: I kind of liked Nedved too. Not in his first stint with the team in 95 but after we reaquired him from the Pens for Kovalev. That first Czechmate line with Hlavac and Dvorak was pretty special for a while.
So, I agree about Lindros. i've never questioned his work ethic.

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07-17-2007, 08:14 PM
  #254
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I am okay with this move. 3 mill for a a very good third liner is a bit too much and on a team operating close to the cap this was a pretty obvious move. Happy we got as much as we did, to me Cullen is worth a second rounder. Barnes and a third, along with a cheap extra (if sub par) dman, is a better than average return.

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07-17-2007, 08:18 PM
  #255
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Good deal

Because of our cap problem - I think a trade was inevitable. With this trade, we have a shot at resigning Avery, Hossa, and not having any of Shanahan's bonuses count toward next year. This trade was not made to make our team better this year - but with the future in mind.

I did not want to trade a defenseman and make our weakest area even weaker.

I bet that we'll have a stopgap solution to start the season - either Straka or Avery centering the third line. But I'll bet even more money that Dubinsky or Anisimov will be centering the third line by the end of the season.

Dubinsky did not look out of place in the games he played. He is close to being ready.

Anisimov was playing first line minutes in the playoffs in the second best league in the world. It is likely he'll take months or perhaps more than a year to adjust, but clearly he ain't chopped liver.

It is almost painfully obvious that Renney likes to start kids with limited ice time and then gradually increase them as they prosper. Although neither will play a traditional third line center role - they will get third line minutes to start. So neither were going to be our second line center with or without Drury / Gomez there. So either Cullen, with his big salary, or Betts was blocking them. Trading Cullen was a total no brainer.

Anyone who complains about not enough youth can NOT complain about this trade. Granted - if neither Dubinsky or Anisimov make it this year - our team took a considerable step backwards. But we are still better than last year.

The return seems decent - if only for the third rounder. I bet Hutchinson is in Hartford all year, and Joe Barnes seems like a high risk/reward type prospect.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak View Post
I think people are overreacting to the level of "turnover."

Who did we lose? Nylander, Cullen, Ortmeyer, Rachunek, and Weekes. A good center, a 3rd liner, a 4th liner, a 3rd pairing d-man, and a backup goalie.

Who is coming back? Jagr, Shanahan, Straka, Prucha, Callahan, Betts, Orr, Hollweg, Malik, Rozsival, Tyutin, Girardi, Mara, Pock, Strudwick, Lundqvist, Valiquette, and presumably Avery and Hossa.

Who's new? Only Gomez and Drury, and maybe a rookie or two. Hutchinson is not lock for the lineup or a valid replacement for Mara. He seems like the new version of Andy Delmore.
Good post. I would have jumped on the too much turnover bandwagon until I read this.

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07-17-2007, 08:24 PM
  #256
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Why can't Betts center the third line while Dubi breaks in on the 4th. Betts was a very capable and responsible center when he was our #3 center.

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07-17-2007, 08:34 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
Why can't Betts center the third line while Dubi breaks in on the 4th. Betts was a very capable and responsible center when he was our #3 center.
Betts was responsible, sure, but he provides no offense whatsoever and is ideally suited to the fourth line.

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07-17-2007, 08:39 PM
  #258
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I'm not trying to take a shot at anyone here who supports this, but please can we stop with the idea of avery as the 3rd line center. Avery had some minutes at center last season and he just didnt look good at all. You cant have a guy who is going to take penalties (sometimes bad ones but thats off set by is pesky play), as your shutdown center. Avery is not a shutdown center plain and simple.

I've been saying it all along, you dont go and spend around $100 million in one offseason on two players if your not pursuing the cup. So with that said, you dont experiment with a guy like avery in such an important position on the team and see if it works out especially when theyre are other players available to do that job. Avery played great with Shanny and they had good chemistry to go along with knowing each other for a long time. Why play stupid here? Though I wasnt all that much interested in him before because we still had cullen and I would rather have kept cullen, now that the trade has been made its time to make the necessary moves to fill out the roster. Peca would be the smart move to make. Yes he has health issues but hey if he gets hurt during the season, thats not a big deal because youll have dubinsky and anisimov waiting in the wings. Peca returning to NY might energize him, especially playing with the talent this team has that has their sights set on the cup.

And please NO WAY IN HELL does straka fill the 3rd line center hole.

Straka-Gomez-Jagr
Avery-Drury-Shanahan
Prucha-Peca-Callahan
Hossa-Betts-Hollweg/Orr

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Old
07-17-2007, 08:41 PM
  #259
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Dubinsky/Anisimov should be centering skilled players so that they can be effective and continue to develop. Perhaps:

Prucha/Avery - Dubinsky/Anisimov - Callahan

Betts is perfect for the fourth line in every way. He is effective with few minutes and will be fresh for PK. He can't pass well, but his wingers can't shoot anyway. Perhaps:

Hossa/??? - Betts - Hollweg/Orr

Therefore, I'd label Dubinsky/Anisimov as the "third line" and Betts as the "fourth line"

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07-17-2007, 08:56 PM
  #260
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I may be a bit biased since I've known Barnes' dad since '03 and have followed his hockey career every step of the way. I don't have much time right now to share everything I know but here's a few quick things.

I was just chatting with his dad for about an hour. Says Rutherford called him at 8 am (Manitoba time) to deliver the news, and then Renney called him pretty soon after to greet him to the organization...told him they're excited to have him as part of the organization, etc. Pretty much just your basic phone call welcoming him to the club. Joe suffered a bad concussion last year but is fully healed and has been for a while. He was healthy enough to come back and play last year but everyone felt it was best to just sit out the remaining games to fully heal. I saw Caniacforever wrote earlier that Barnes has had 3 concussions, but his dad said that was his first one. He had a serious neck injury in his draft year ('04, which he opted out of), but according to him this was the first concussion. Says Joe is really excited about the opportunity...as a young player, the Rangers organization is a place you want to be right now.

As I mentioned previously on this board, the Rangers flew him in to their training center a week before the '05 draft for another interview and some tests and were high on him in the draft. They had him tabbed as their 3rd round pick (66th) but he was snatched up by Carolina two picks earlier. The scouts obviously saw something in him that they liked back then and when the chance was there to get him in this deal they took it. He's a big, strong kid that skates well and can really shoot the puck....not afraid to be physical either. His biggest problem has been consistency and avoiding the injury bug, although that's been a case of two freak accidents. He's raw and a project but two years in Hartford and he very well could be an NHL player. He has a better chance for growth as a player in the Rangers' organization than he did with Carolina, which his dad was obviously happy about. Carolina had a joint affiliate last year, only had 11 prospects signed on the squad and lets face it they haven't done a good job in the past of developing players. Not to say the Rangers have pre-Sather era but things obviously are taking a step towards the right direction. Also to add quick Dawes and Barnes have played with each other in the past growing up in Manitoba and have played well together, so perhaps we see them on a line in Hartford.

Any questions I'll try to answer later on tonight.

As for the trade I like the return. I'm going to miss Cullen, but he's overpaid for his role and with the youth coming in he was expendable.

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07-17-2007, 09:08 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Draft Guru View Post
I may be a bit biased since I've known Barnes' dad since '03 and have followed his hockey career every step of the way. I don't have much time right now to share everything I know but here's a few quick things.

I was just chatting with his dad for about an hour. Says Rutherford called him at 8 am (Manitoba time) to deliver the news, and then Renney called him pretty soon after to greet him to the organization...told him they're excited to have him as part of the organization, etc. Pretty much just your basic phone call welcoming him to the club. Joe suffered a bad concussion last year but is fully healed and has been for a while. He was healthy enough to come back and play last year but everyone felt it was best to just sit out the remaining games to fully heal. I saw Caniacforever wrote earlier that Barnes has had 3 concussions, but his dad said that was his first one. He had a serious neck injury in his draft year ('04, which he opted out of), but according to him this was the first concussion. Says Joe is really excited about the opportunity...as a young player, the Rangers organization is a place you want to be right now.

As I mentioned previously on this board, the Rangers flew him in to their training center a week before the '05 draft for another interview and some tests and were high on him in the draft. They had him tabbed as their 3rd round pick (66th) but he was snatched up by Carolina two picks earlier. The scouts obviously saw something in him that they liked back then and when the chance was there to get him in this deal they took it. He's a big, strong kid that skates well and can really shoot the puck....not afraid to be physical either. His biggest problem has been consistency and avoiding the injury bug, although that's been a case of two freak accidents. He's raw and a project but two years in Hartford and he very well could be an NHL player. He has a better chance for growth as a player in the Rangers' organization than he did with Carolina, which his dad was obviously happy about. Carolina had a joint affiliate last year, only had 11 prospects signed on the squad and lets face it they haven't done a good job in the past of developing players. Not to say the Rangers have pre-Sather era but things obviously are taking a step towards the right direction. Also to add quick Dawes and Barnes have played with each other in the past growing up in Manitoba and have played well together, so perhaps we see them on a line in Hartford.

Any questions I'll try to answer later on tonight.

As for the trade I like the return. I'm going to miss Cullen, but he's overpaid for his role and with the youth coming in he was expendable.
Wow thanks for all the info DG, I had heard that the kid Barnes had skills but was injury prone from the Canes board. Nice to get clarification, and now I'm excited to have the guy as part of our organization.

Would Umberger with a bit more grit be a reasonable comp as to what we hope the kid turns to, or are we hoping for more? Or less?

Agreed with your assessment of the deal.

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07-17-2007, 09:17 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
Why can't Betts center the third line while Dubi breaks in on the 4th. Betts was a very capable and responsible center when he was our #3 center.
you need a guy with some offesive prescence there... Betts doesnt have it

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07-17-2007, 09:32 PM
  #263
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While I'm still upset about the trade, I have been thinking about it for the last few hours and have come to the conclusion, that what we did was add 2 3rd rounders basically for a mistake signing.

Cullen didn't fit what the Rangers wanted out of him and it showed early in the year and when they finally figured out how to better utilize his talents, it was already evident that the real problem facing this team was the 2nd line center spot.

for those of you that say that he's overpaid for his role, that's a fair statment, but he's done NOTHING in his career to suggest he's anything more than just a 3rd liner and the Rangers were happy to get him for that contract.

He served his role on this team to a T, once the Rangers figured out what that role was and put him in it.

I don't know much about Barnes, but he seems like the same old same old of what we already have an abundance of in the system.

Who knows what the 08 3rd is going to be.

I guess it's good asset management

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07-17-2007, 09:34 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft Guru View Post
I may be a bit biased since I've known Barnes' dad since '03 and have followed his hockey career every step of the way. I don't have much time right now to share everything I know but here's a few quick things.

I was just chatting with his dad for about an hour. Says Rutherford called him at 8 am (Manitoba time) to deliver the news, and then Renney called him pretty soon after to greet him to the organization...told him they're excited to have him as part of the organization, etc. Pretty much just your basic phone call welcoming him to the club. Joe suffered a bad concussion last year but is fully healed and has been for a while. He was healthy enough to come back and play last year but everyone felt it was best to just sit out the remaining games to fully heal. I saw Caniacforever wrote earlier that Barnes has had 3 concussions, but his dad said that was his first one. He had a serious neck injury in his draft year ('04, which he opted out of), but according to him this was the first concussion. Says Joe is really excited about the opportunity...as a young player, the Rangers organization is a place you want to be right now.

As I mentioned previously on this board, the Rangers flew him in to their training center a week before the '05 draft for another interview and some tests and were high on him in the draft. They had him tabbed as their 3rd round pick (66th) but he was snatched up by Carolina two picks earlier. The scouts obviously saw something in him that they liked back then and when the chance was there to get him in this deal they took it. He's a big, strong kid that skates well and can really shoot the puck....not afraid to be physical either. His biggest problem has been consistency and avoiding the injury bug, although that's been a case of two freak accidents. He's raw and a project but two years in Hartford and he very well could be an NHL player. He has a better chance for growth as a player in the Rangers' organization than he did with Carolina, which his dad was obviously happy about. Carolina had a joint affiliate last year, only had 11 prospects signed on the squad and lets face it they haven't done a good job in the past of developing players. Not to say the Rangers have pre-Sather era but things obviously are taking a step towards the right direction. Also to add quick Dawes and Barnes have played with each other in the past growing up in Manitoba and have played well together, so perhaps we see them on a line in Hartford.

Any questions I'll try to answer later on tonight.

As for the trade I like the return. I'm going to miss Cullen, but he's overpaid for his role and with the youth coming in he was expendable.
I remember you cuing us into Barnes as a possiblity for the Rangers to take in the 2005 draft. Again, adding Barnes and a 3rd round pick in a deep draft, while dumping $8.5 million from the cap over the next three years for a player who wasn't worth the contract he was signed to is very good asset management, AFAIC. Add in the possibility that Dubinsky gets a chance to win a spot, and I'm a happy camper.

Plus, I love this quote from Barnes -

Quote:
Says Joe is really excited about the opportunity...as a young player, the Rangers organization is a place you want to be right now.
Times have indeed changed.

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07-17-2007, 10:50 PM
  #265
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3rd rd pick 2008 nhl draft

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from projections who might that 3rd round pick be and why

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07-17-2007, 11:09 PM
  #266
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I would think Dubi or Ansimov for the 3rd line. These kids have earned their way, and will hopefully get a long look with the big club.

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07-17-2007, 11:18 PM
  #267
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Carolina had a joint affiliate last year, only had 11 prospects signed on the squad and lets face it they haven't done a good job in the past of developing players.
I think that applies more to the last 5 years, because prior to that they were one of the better teams at developing talent. They seem to have lost their way a little with what I believe is still a light scouting staff and of course no dedicated AHL affiliate.

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07-17-2007, 11:18 PM
  #268
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If they don't sign a 3rd line center and don't bring Hossa back, it looks like 2 spots on the forward lines will be open for a youngster. 3rd line center/wing, and 4th line wing. Hopefully Staal is also allowed a chance to compete for a defensive spot...although at the moment, there is no room for him.

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07-17-2007, 11:21 PM
  #269
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I've read through most of the eight pages and I frequently come across agruments for chemistry.

Everyone seems to be rather quick to forget that we didn't build any of that chemistry last season until after the deadline. And coming out of the lockout we had basically assembled 20 guys that had never spent a whole lot of time together in the NHL. In other words we've encountered what most would call "stumbling out of the blocks" just the same as we've encountered situations where there are a plethora of new faces in the dressing room.

If it's one thing the Rangers have done right in the past few years, it's been brining players together at the right time. I have no doubt we'll run into our speed bumps along the way, but you only need to look at the guys behind the bench and the leaders in the locker room to know that this chemistry thing is folly.

Besides, why is the crying about chemistry beginning now? We've made at least four other moves this off-season that could have much greater impact than dealing Cullen. Nylander anyone? Or what about the under-rated affect on Lundqvist with Weekes departure? Talking about narrow minded arguments...


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07-18-2007, 12:16 AM
  #270
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I think that applies more to the last 5 years, because prior to that they were one of the better teams at developing talent. They seem to have lost their way a little with what I believe is still a light scouting staff and of course no dedicated AHL affiliate.
One of the better teams at developing talent? I respectfully disagree. Their draft history has been atrocious. They've never been an organization to put a whole lot of resources into the draft....and they did trade 3 first round picks for Glen Wesley back in the 90's. The draft is just something Karmanos has not cared about. He also was willing to surrender numerous draft picks to Detroit had they not matched the deal for Fedorov.

Ottawa, New Jersey, Colorado...those are teams I think of when it comes to organizations developing talent. Carolina doesn't come to mind.

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07-18-2007, 12:37 AM
  #271
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One of the better teams at developing talent? I respectfully disagree. Their draft history has been atrocious. They've never been an organization to put a whole lot of resources into the draft....and they did trade 3 first round picks for Glen Wesley back in the 90's. The draft is just something Karmanos has not cared about. He also was willing to surrender numerous draft picks to Detroit had they not matched the deal for Fedorov.

Ottawa, New Jersey, Colorado...those are teams I think of when it comes to organizations developing talent. Carolina doesn't come to mind.
The Canes don't even got a European scout, they go by the CSB when drafting Euros...

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07-18-2007, 01:13 AM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft Guru View Post
I may be a bit biased since I've known Barnes' dad since '03 and have followed his hockey career every step of the way. I don't have much time right now to share everything I know but here's a few quick things.

I was just chatting with his dad for about an hour. Says Rutherford called him at 8 am (Manitoba time) to deliver the news, and then Renney called him pretty soon after to greet him to the organization...told him they're excited to have him as part of the organization, etc. Pretty much just your basic phone call welcoming him to the club. Joe suffered a bad concussion last year but is fully healed and has been for a while. He was healthy enough to come back and play last year but everyone felt it was best to just sit out the remaining games to fully heal. I saw Caniacforever wrote earlier that Barnes has had 3 concussions, but his dad said that was his first one. He had a serious neck injury in his draft year ('04, which he opted out of), but according to him this was the first concussion. Says Joe is really excited about the opportunity...as a young player, the Rangers organization is a place you want to be right now.

As I mentioned previously on this board, the Rangers flew him in to their training center a week before the '05 draft for another interview and some tests and were high on him in the draft. They had him tabbed as their 3rd round pick (66th) but he was snatched up by Carolina two picks earlier. The scouts obviously saw something in him that they liked back then and when the chance was there to get him in this deal they took it. He's a big, strong kid that skates well and can really shoot the puck....not afraid to be physical either. His biggest problem has been consistency and avoiding the injury bug, although that's been a case of two freak accidents. He's raw and a project but two years in Hartford and he very well could be an NHL player. He has a better chance for growth as a player in the Rangers' organization than he did with Carolina, which his dad was obviously happy about. Carolina had a joint affiliate last year, only had 11 prospects signed on the squad and lets face it they haven't done a good job in the past of developing players. Not to say the Rangers have pre-Sather era but things obviously are taking a step towards the right direction. Also to add quick Dawes and Barnes have played with each other in the past growing up in Manitoba and have played well together, so perhaps we see them on a line in Hartford.

Any questions I'll try to answer later on tonight.

As for the trade I like the return. I'm going to miss Cullen, but he's overpaid for his role and with the youth coming in he was expendable.
I honestly could have sworn that Barnes had a concussion, at the very least one, while playing for Saskatoon. I would be far from trying to call his father a liar but I honestly was nearly 100% certain he had a prior history with this.

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07-18-2007, 02:00 AM
  #273
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I honestly could have sworn that Barnes had a concussion, at the very least one, while playing for Saskatoon. I would be far from trying to call his father a liar but I honestly was nearly 100% certain he had a prior history with this.
I'm not 100% positive either, although I don't recall a concussion with Saskatoon. It was the neck injury that was quite severe, shelved him for a while and then affected his play when he did return (his draft year). We were discussing his concussion and I said, "Was that his first?" and he replied, "Yep, the first and only so far." I'll take his word for it but you never know.

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07-18-2007, 04:38 AM
  #274
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Guess we saw this deal coming for some time now. Looks lot we got a decent return for Cullen considering we needed to clear some cap space. As far as the arguments about team chemistry, while it would be nice to come flying out of the gate, the NHL season is a marathon and I'm optimistic they'll put it all together at some point.

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07-18-2007, 08:00 AM
  #275
94now
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Betts was responsible, sure, but he provides no offense whatsoever and is ideally suited to the fourth line.
You want offense from 3rd ONLY if your top 6 not scoring. If that is the case, what DRUMEZ signing was for? 3rd line should be a shutdown line. Scoring threat from 3rd is nice, but not required to win big. In a few years Betts will be either an elite shutdown center at best or very good defensive forward at worse. All he needs is to work on bodybuilding since he's got a frame to fill. His hockey skills is not a problem.

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