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Official: Cullen to Carolina for D Andrew Hutchinson, F Joe Barnes, 08 3rd

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Old
07-17-2007, 01:28 PM
  #176
Fletch
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Pld..

I do hear you on Avery and also think he's best served as a winger, but that's an option that could be better than if Cullen were here. If Dubi isn't ready, and he very well may not be ready considering how he finished the season (with somewhat of a whimper), then that's the option.

I also agree on Gomez - I remember Holik coming here and playing on the PK when he didn't do so in Jersey - guess I was having a flashback. But perhaps he doesn't - similar to Nylander.

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07-17-2007, 01:31 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I'm just sorry for seeing Cullen go and shaking up this team so much.
+1

Not too happy right now.

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Old
07-17-2007, 01:33 PM
  #178
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The worst part is we've hurt the chemistry a lot and if we stumble out of the gate or even miss the playoffs people are gonna say same old rangers, we knew it, bla bla bla and this would be a prime example of that.

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07-17-2007, 01:37 PM
  #179
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Decent trade, free up cap space, not too bad of a return.

Here are the lines I would use now
Straka-Gomez-Jagr
Prucha-Drury-Shanny
Hossa-Avery-Callahan
Hollweg-Betts-Orr

I don't like Avery as a center but I think that is the best lineup unless we wanna call up a kid

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Old
07-17-2007, 01:37 PM
  #180
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havent read any responses yet (ill be getting to that after i eat some damn food)

but here is what i said on another board that i frequent.


some major over-rating of cullen going on over here. i really liked what i saw in the preseason from him, but thats about it. he didnt give me much of anything else while he was here, preseason, regular season, whatever. he had 1 game where i would say he was a dominating player, and that was the game where the cop line just took over. otherwise he was wanting in nearly every game he was here.

Cullen is the kind of player that doesnt elevate those around him. Hes MUCH more suited as a winger than a center. Sure, hes got blazing speed, but so what, he doesnt have much of else. hes got the worst balance possibly in the entire NHL. what good is your center if he spends half the ****ing game on his ass.

IMHO were a better team putting a kid like Dubinsky in, who i see as a PERFECT 3rd line center, than keeping cullen. Not to mention the cap flexibility it gives us.

Im happy with the moves, 2 AHL fodder guys, and a 3rd rounder next year, which woulda been like a 2nd rounder this year.


im THRILLED with this move.

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Old
07-17-2007, 01:37 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majoritystorm View Post
The worst part is we've hurt the chemistry a lot and if we stumble out of the gate or even miss the playoffs people are gonna say same old rangers, we knew it, bla bla bla and this would be a prime example of that.
another post I have to agree with.

and for the argument of "well no one *****ed about gomez and drury but now your freaking over losing a 3rd line center lolz!!!11 its more of the fact that those signings to me, while I resisted them, were needed.... I still dont see how this move was needed, cap space or not, we could have fit at least Avery in with Cullens money....

whats that, no hossa? Rather have Cullen on the third line then him on the team....

only good that comes from this is the fact that Dubi might get a shot at the big team next season.... that would at least make me feel better about this....

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Old
07-17-2007, 01:37 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Uh, Dubi -- if anyone -- should be the 3C before Betts. Betts is a PERFECT 4th line center in the game and there is no need to move him up.
Betts is a shutdown centre and was good at 3C last season. There is no way to use his abilities effectively on 4th line. He was moved down because Cullen has no place to play and putting Cullen as Betts wing would be a waste of money. Howevere in order to make Cullen useful Renney had to compliment him with Shanahan so the line would be able to posses the puck. It is not what shutdown line does normally. Shutdown line plays without puck chasing the opposition and attempting to take the puck away from them by interrupting opposition passwork with physical interaction. THERE IS NO NEED TO BE PHYSICAL IF YOU HAVE A PUCK. You must be physical if you do not. 4th line is not playing against top opposition lines trying to destroy their offensive effort. They are time killing line to let top 6 (2 scoring lines) to rest. Anyone on the NHL team roster can play 4th line, therefore phrase "perfect 4th line center" doesn't make much sense. What has happened was that our 4th line became the shutdown line once Betts moved there, but that was not how lines should be set. Hopefully next season the Cullen factor wont screw up the line assignment as much as last season.


Last edited by 94now: 07-17-2007 at 01:45 PM.
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Old
07-17-2007, 01:39 PM
  #183
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I think everyone needs to chill out and see what can come of this. They lost their third line center, he's not a playmaking center that can't be replaced, he will be replaced adequatley. Renney isn't a moron, he'll figure something out. The season is a long 82 games and there is plenty of time for their chemistry to develop.

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07-17-2007, 01:42 PM
  #184
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I think people are overreacting to the level of "turnover."

Who did we lose? Nylander, Cullen, Ortmeyer, Rachunek, and Weekes. A good center, a 3rd liner, a 4th liner, a 3rd pairing d-man, and a backup goalie.

Who is coming back? Jagr, Shanahan, Straka, Prucha, Callahan, Betts, Orr, Hollweg, Malik, Rozsival, Tyutin, Girardi, Mara, Pock, Strudwick, Lundqvist, Valiquette, and presumably Avery and Hossa.

Who's new? Only Gomez and Drury, and maybe a rookie or two. Hutchinson is not lock for the lineup or a valid replacement for Mara. He seems like the new version of Andy Delmore.

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Old
07-17-2007, 01:42 PM
  #185
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I would not have any problem playing Drury on the "third line" Considering the Rangers top three lines are going to get a bulk of the ice time anyway it does not really matter who plays where.

Its a very strong possibility that Drury or Gomez does not fit with Jagr and we see Prucha/Hossa - Straka - Jagr.

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07-17-2007, 01:49 PM
  #186
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I point to turnover being an issue because we could potentially be going war using three lines of players who have yet to work together. It will certainly take sometime for these players to get familiar with one another.

I would have no issue if the lines were rolled as follows:

Marcel Hossa - Martin Straka - Jaromir Jagr

Sean Avery - Scott Gomez - Brendan Shanahan

Petr Prucha - Chris Drury - Ryan Callahan

Ryan Hollweg - Blair Betts - Colton Orr

You get a top line of three players who are familiar with one another and have played together. You get Shanny his center that he's been begging for. One thing that we will learn quickly is that Chris Drury can play anywhere on this team. He played with Mike Grier two seasons ago in Buffalo and played with Danius Zubrus and Ales Kotalik during the playoffs this year. If anything, I would love to see Drury with Callahan and Prucha. The three of them all play a north south game.

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Old
07-17-2007, 01:49 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Betts is a shutdown centre and was good at 3C last season. There is no way to use his abilities effectively on 4th line. He was moved down because Cullen has no place to play and putting Cullen as Betts wing would be a waste of money. Howevere in order to make Cullen useful Renney had to compliment him with Shanahan so the line would be able to posses the puck. It is not what shutdown line does normally. Shutdown line plays without puck chasing the opposition and attempting to take the puck away from them by interrupting opposition passwork with physical interaction. THERE IS NO NEED TO BE PHYSICAL IF YOU HAVE A PUCK. You must be physical if you do not. 4th line is not playing against top opposition lines trying to destroy their offensive effort. They are time killing line to let top 6 (scoring lines) to rest. Anyone on the NHL team roster can play 4th line, therefore phrase "perfect 4th line center" doesn't make much sense. What has happened was that our 4th line became the shutdown line once Betts moved there, but that was not how lines should be set. Hopefully next season the Cullen factor will screw up the line assignment as much as last season.
First and foremost, being a good defensive center is not the same as being a shutdown center. There's a big difference. Betts has not shown that he is capable of keeping up with elite centers or logging extensive amounts of ice time. He hasn't had a true opportunity to show that, and maybe he could be successful if given a chance. But the fact remains that he is not a proven shutdown guy.

Second, even if Betts were a shutdown center, it would not matter. Renney does not want to build a shutdown line or do a great deal of line matching. He seems to prefer one all-out offensive lines, two 2-way lines, and an energy line.

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Old
07-17-2007, 01:50 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by NYR2K5 View Post
I point to turnover being an issue because we could potentially be going war using three lines of players who have yet to work together. It will certainly take sometime for these players to get familiar with one another.

I would have no issue if the lines were rolled as follows:

Marcel Hossa - Martin Straka - Jaromir Jagr

Sean Avery - Scott Gomez - Brendan Shanahan

Petr Prucha - Chris Drury - Ryan Callahan

Ryan Hollweg - Blair Betts - Colton Orr

You get a top line of three players who are familiar with one another and have played together. You get Shanny his center that he's been begging for. One thing that we will learn quickly is that Chris Drury can play anywhere on this team. He played with Mike Grier two seasons ago in Buffalo and played with Danius Zubrus and Ales Kotalik during the playoffs this year. If anything, I would love to see Drury with Callahan and Prucha. The three of them all play a north south game.
You're not paying Drury 7M to play on the third line.

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Old
07-17-2007, 01:54 PM
  #189
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The bottom line is: were we a better team before the trade or after it? No doubt, before. This trade did not make us better.
So the issue now is 3rd line center: neither Straka or Avery are the answer here. Neither has the unique skills necessary to be a center. A center needs vision, the ability to see the whole ice and to be an effective playmaker. Though Straka is an excellent passer from the wing, he does not have that vision. Renney has tried him many, many times at center only to move him back to the wing after a few shifts, periods or games. Avery doesn't have that skill either; he is most effective agitating along the boards. Both Straka and Avery are wingers, not centers.
So, if we don't sign a free agent center (and I certainly hope we don't), the player first in line is Dubinsky. Is he ready? I think so: his high energy, involved style of play could be a perfect skill set for a 3rd line center. Hope he gets first crack at it.

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07-17-2007, 01:55 PM
  #190
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Singin - I understand that we are paying Drury $7 million dollars, but the point is the guy is so versatile that he can play on lines 1 - 3. It would also give the Rangers the flexibility to roll three lines instead of riding the Jagr line. I just think that in the long run, there is a good chance that Renney tries Drury as our "checking" center. As we saw in the playoffs with the Kotalik - Drury - Zubrus line matched up against Jagr and Nylander, he can be effective in that role. If he fails with the Jagr line or the Shanny line, it should not be ruled out.

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07-17-2007, 02:00 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by NYR2K5 View Post
Singin - I understand that we are paying Drury $7 million dollars, but the point is the guy is so versatile that he can play on lines 1 - 3. It would also give the Rangers the flexibility to roll three lines instead of riding the Jagr line. I just think that in the long run, there is a good chance that Renney tries Drury as our "checking" center. As we saw in the playoffs with the Kotalik - Drury - Zubrus line matched up against Jagr and Nylander, he can be effective in that role. If he fails with the Jagr line or the Shanny line, it should not be ruled out.
The other problem is Straka is not a great center. Certainly not a first line center. And I'm just not bumping arugably my best all-around forward to the third line for Marcel Hossa (a guy with a grand total of 30 goals and 53 points in the NHL numbers that are a less than average season for Drury).

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07-17-2007, 02:00 PM
  #192
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I'll be Jorts for a moment

How bout Forsberg for the third line center?

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07-17-2007, 02:00 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You're not paying Drury 7M to play on the third line.
Drury is paid $7 mil to improve the team. If that means putting Drury on the 3rd line so we have 3 bonafide offensive threats, then so be it. I just hope that Renney would have the guts to do it if the situation calls for it.

I really hope you aren't advocating setting the lineup based on the size of a player's contract, Singin. I thought we learned from that mistake.

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07-17-2007, 02:02 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Kodiak View Post
Drury is paid $7 mil to improve the team. If that means putting Drury on the 3rd line so we have 3 bonafide offensive threats, then so be it. I just hope that Renney would have the guts to do it if the situation calls for it.

I really hope you aren't advocating setting the lineup based on the size of a player's contract, Singin. I thought we learned from that mistake.
No I do have a problem with taking minutes away from Drury for Marcel Hossa.

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07-17-2007, 02:06 PM
  #195
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Hey guys!

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Old
07-17-2007, 02:06 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
No I do have a problem with taking minutes away from Drury for Marcel Hossa.
Assuming Hossa and Straka mesh with Jagr better than Gomez or Drury (and Hossa remains productive), I don't see a problem with it.

But let's cross that bridge when we come to it.

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07-17-2007, 02:07 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Kodiak View Post
Drury is paid $7 mil to improve the team. If that means putting Drury on the 3rd line so we have 3 bonafide offensive threats, then so be it. I just hope that Renney would have the guts to do it if the situation calls for it.

I really hope you aren't advocating setting the lineup based on the size of a player's contract, Singin. I thought we learned from that mistake.
Thank you for answering for me.

Drury was on the 3rd line last year, matched against top lines. He would still be playing with decent offensively gifted linemates and would be getting alot of ES, as well as PK and PP, icetime.

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Old
07-17-2007, 02:07 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You're not paying Drury 7M to play on the third line.
you're right. you're paying him 7M for 20 minutes a game's worth of ice time. I hate how people get hung up on line heirarchy. Yes, yes, line numbers are based in reality and the reality is that coaches don't evenly roll their lines but with those three lines, I could definitely see each line getting 16-20 minutes each. The fourth line would get like 6-8 minutes. Drury would earn the rest of his keep on the PP and PK. Gomez is the one you have to play more since he probably won't play on the PK as much AND is getting paid more.

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07-17-2007, 02:07 PM
  #199
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Hey guys!
Welcome. Learn how to play in your own zone.

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Old
07-17-2007, 02:10 PM
  #200
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One of the reasons I think most of us have problems with this... it creates more questions than it answers.

Trades are supposed to resolve questions, not create new ones. We were right up against the cap, but would it have been a travesty to let Hossa walk? Avery was in, Hossa was questionable, but the team looked really solid on paper.

Now, I still believe we are one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference, but this move just scares me a little bit.

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