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08-04-2007, 07:56 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by JustJoe2k5 View Post
Who do you think we pay the money to, Eric Staal or Erik Cole? If you say Cole, then you clearly are a major "colesyfan". Even Cole wanted a one-year deal this past offseason so he could test the free agency waters this offseason. He and his wife may like it in North Carolina, but that doesn't mean he has to play in North Carolina. Just look at Aaron Ward, Bates Battaglia, Ron Francis, and Sean Hill. All guys that kept a home here while they played elsewhere. For the money he could make elsewhere, Cole would be foolish to stick around here at a greatly discounted price.

If you have to choose between Staal and Cole, then yeah you choose Staal. But it still doesn't mean Cole won't re-sign. And as far as Cole wanting a 1-year deal is BS.

And to automatically assume that Cole is gone b/c his contract is up at the sametime as Staal's is just stupid. You don't know how much money JR will have to spend. Not only that GMs do plan for the future not just the year their in now.

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08-04-2007, 08:18 PM
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And as far as Cole wanting a 1-year deal is BS
Were you living under a rock last off-season? That bit of info was well-publicized.

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08-04-2007, 08:54 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by JustJoe2k5 View Post
Vancouver would need to throw in a NHL forward for any deal to be worthwhile for the Hurricanes.
uhm which is why if you read the thread... i said Cole is not the right direction for the Canucks to go, as he will cost more then the Canucks are willing to give up.

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08-04-2007, 09:41 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by colesyfan View Post
If you have to choose between Staal and Cole, then yeah you choose Staal. But it still doesn't mean Cole won't re-sign. And as far as Cole wanting a 1-year deal is BS.

And to automatically assume that Cole is gone b/c his contract is up at the sametime as Staal's is just stupid. You don't know how much money JR will have to spend. Not only that GMs do plan for the future not just the year their in now.
From a June '06 ESPN article:
The Hurricanes head into the weekend with some question marks, starting with Cole. Rutherford said the 27-year-old physical forward turned down multiyear offers and appears headed for a one-year deal that will allow him to test the open market after next season.

From Luke DeCock's blog in July '06:
The Canes are almost done with their free-agent housekeeping. They're waiting for word from Glen Wesley about his future and have the Erik Cole issue to deal with — he's apparently decided to seek a one-year deal that would make him an unrestricted free agent next summer — but other than that LaRose was one of the final items on the agenda.

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08-04-2007, 09:45 PM
  #55
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uhm which is why if you read the thread... i said Cole is not the right direction for the Canucks to go, as he will cost more then the Canucks are willing to give up.
I read the thread, saw what you said the Canucks had to offer, and said that the Hurricanes would need to acquire a NHL forward in return for the deal to be worthwhile. Doesn't need to be Markus Naslund, but someone like Matt Cooke or Taylor Pyatt to even out the loss of Erik Cole to our top nine.

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08-04-2007, 10:33 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by JustJoe2k5 View Post
I read the thread, saw what you said the Canucks had to offer, and said that the Hurricanes would need to acquire a NHL forward in return for the deal to be worthwhile. Doesn't need to be Markus Naslund, but someone like Matt Cooke or Taylor Pyatt to even out the loss of Erik Cole to our top nine.
I would consider a Matt Cooke and prospect trade for Erik Cole. It would suck to lose Matt Cooke on the 3rd line, but the Canucks have a bigger hole in the top 6 that needs to be filled and Cole would be a great addition, either with the Twins or with Nazzy/Mo. Moving Cooke's salary would also allow enough space to acquire Erik Cole.

I question why the Canes would move Cole for anything less than an equally valuable defenseman though. You say that the Canes need to shed some salary, but why? Right now they are about $5M below the cap, do they have a self imposed budget that they must conform too?

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08-04-2007, 10:42 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
I would consider a Matt Cooke and prospect trade for Erik Cole. It would suck to lose Matt Cooke on the 3rd line, but the Canucks have a bigger hole in the top 6 that needs to be filled and Cole would be a great addition, either with the Twins or with Nazzy/Mo. Moving Cooke's salary would also allow enough space to acquire Erik Cole.

I question why the Canes would move Cole for anything less than an equally valuable defenseman though. You say that the Canes need to shed some salary, but why? Right now they are about $5M below the cap, do they have a self imposed budget that they must conform too?
Yeah, ideally they would like to be at or below $44 million.

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08-04-2007, 10:53 PM
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The Cole situation scares me. Based on the last couple contract sessions we have had with him, they've been a tad on the rocky side. Not as smooth as I think we'd all prefer. He seemed to be fetching short term deals in each situation. Luckily, after being rumoured last offseason after our cup win of wanting a 1 year deal, we got him to a 3 year deal. My gut feeling though, which seems to be in the minority around here, is that when Cole's current contract expires he may test the market, and if the market is anywhere near what it is now, which seems to be realistic the way things are going, Cole could cash in big time. I think we will do whatever we can to possibly keep Cole, but if he has a couple stellar seasons which remain on his contract, he could fetch a good pay day in the range of who knows where, say 5-6.5 Million potentially. Will we be willing to give that to him? Right now, no I highly doubt it. But that is just it, we only know what today has to offer, who knows what the salary cap around the league will be when Cole's contract expires and who knows what our self imposed team cap will be, let alone the shape and direciton this team is headed. There are a lot of factors that will come in to play. Now, in Cole's final year of his contract, which is 2008-2009, it's tough to say whether we ship him out at the deadline, that remains to see how the team itself is performing. Like I said, to many things come in to play to really talk about it now. I guess one plus we do have in our favour to give us a notch of hope is that Cole and his family are having a home built in Carolina. I know he can still jump ship to another team when the time comes, but him building a home is a plus no matter which way you look at it. If the team is still a contender and we can give him a decent contract that keeps him happy, it could be an easy thing to retain Cole.

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08-04-2007, 11:21 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by JustJoe2k5 View Post
Yeah, ideally they would like to be at or below $44 million.
Wouldn't it make more sense to try to dump a guy such as Nic Wallin or Cory Stillman then? Also, do you think Rutherford would've re-acquired Matt Cullen and his almost $3M cap hit if it would put Erik Cole's future with the club at jeopardy? To me it seems that Cole would be a more important part of the team than Cullen, but I don't follow the Canes closely.

That said, I'd be willing to move Cooke and any of the Canucks' prospects to land Cole. I doubt Carolina would move him though.

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08-04-2007, 11:34 PM
  #60
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Wouldn't it make more sense to try to dump a guy such as Nic Wallin or Cory Stillman then? Also, do you think Rutherford would've re-acquired Matt Cullen and his almost $3M cap hit if it would put Erik Cole's future with the club at jeopardy? To me it seems that Cole would be a more important part of the team than Cullen, but I don't follow the Canes closely.

That said, I'd be willing to move Cooke and any of the Canucks' prospects to land Cole. I doubt Carolina would move him though.
That point raised a lot of convorsation around here when Cullen was re-acquired, and rightfully so. My train of thought and opinion on it is JR knows a heck of a lot more about what is going on financially with this team than anyone here, and for him to go out and acquire a salary of 2.8 Million for the next 3 seasons for Cullen, he saw fit. If he didn't see fit, Cullen wouldnt have come back. He is no stranger to a salary cap, he's been imposed to one ever since he began with this team and was named a General Manager in the NHL. Which to me is why he will prove himself to be one of the better GM's in the NHL now that every team is on a level playing field, he is already immuned to a salary cap, it is nothing new to him and so far our owner is shedding out a good amount of money salary cap wise to keep this team highly competetive. In my opinion, getting to see JR on an even playing field with the other 29 GM's around the league will show what he can do, rather than him having to only spend 30 Million and watching other teams spend 80 Million. Even though JR has made his share of boneheaded moves that people claim he has, what GM hasnt lost in a hand here and there? and right now JR is proving he has the ability and right mindset for the game and the way it is going for him to build a Stanley Cup champion and contender, which right now is what he is doing and is what 29 other teams and their fans strive for so you won't see me complain about our GM. For each and every GM out there, there will be people who don't like him, or some of the moves he makes, I don't care if you're Ken Holland, there will be people who hold grudges on you. But yes, back to the main point here as it is evident I have wondered off a bit, my opinion is, if JR and Karmanos did not see fit for Cullen's salary and saw it as an effect that would make us lose Cole for example, it wouldn't have happened. That is my opinion however, and it will take a few years for it to be looked at whether I am right or wrong, depending on how the situation lays itself out.


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08-05-2007, 12:09 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Wouldn't it make more sense to try to dump a guy such as Nic Wallin or Cory Stillman then? Also, do you think Rutherford would've re-acquired Matt Cullen and his almost $3M cap hit if it would put Erik Cole's future with the club at jeopardy? To me it seems that Cole would be a more important part of the team than Cullen, but I don't follow the Canes closely.
Cory Stillman is as good as gone after this contract (unless he decides to come back for cheap) and Wallin makes a very affordable salary based on what he brings.

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08-05-2007, 08:22 AM
  #62
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From a June '06 ESPN article:
The Hurricanes head into the weekend with some question marks, starting with Cole. Rutherford said the 27-year-old physical forward turned down multiyear offers and appears headed for a one-year deal that will allow him to test the open market after next season.

From Luke DeCock's blog in July '06:
The Canes are almost done with their free-agent housekeeping. They're waiting for word from Glen Wesley about his future and have the Erik Cole issue to deal with — he's apparently decided to seek a one-year deal that would make him an unrestricted free agent next summer — but other than that LaRose was one of the final items on the agenda.
I think I'll trust the source over ESPN. And DeCock speculates. The whole thing where he wants to test the free market was all speculation. Whose to say JR didn't want him to sign a 1 year to see how he would play after the neck injury?

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"I had every intention of wanting to be here, even if I had to sign a one-year deal here and come back and sign a multiyear deal" in the spring, he said. "My wife and I are just thrilled that we're going to stay here and be part of not just this organization but this community."

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?articleid...e&service=page


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08-05-2007, 08:28 AM
  #63
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Wouldn't it make more sense to try to dump a guy such as Nic Wallin or Cory Stillman then? Also, do you think Rutherford would've re-acquired Matt Cullen and his almost $3M cap hit if it would put Erik Cole's future with the club at jeopardy? To me it seems that Cole would be a more important part of the team than Cullen, but I don't follow the Canes closely.

That said, I'd be willing to move Cooke and any of the Canucks' prospects to land Cole. I doubt Carolina would move him though.
We are only 400K over our self imposed cap. JR will not be trading to shed salary. JR has said that if they can get the 'right' player Karmonas would increase the budget. Cullen was the right player and they increased their budget.

If they wanted to get back to their $44 million self-imposed cap, they'll trade Letowski for a pick or prospect

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08-05-2007, 09:55 AM
  #64
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I think I'll trust the source over ESPN. And DeCock speculates. The whole thing where he wants to test the free market was all speculation. Whose to say JR didn't want him to sign a 1 year to see how he would play after the neck injury?
Of course, after he has signed, Erik Cole will say he wants to stay here his entire career and a multi-year deal was his plan the entire time. However, the fact that the ESPN article states "Rutherford said the 27-year-old physical forward turned down multiyear offers and appears headed for a one-year deal that will allow him to test the open market after next season" would directly contradict what he said. Sure, some articles may speculate but an article wouldn't allow a direct quote of a general manager unless they knew it was true.

"I had every intention of wanting to be here, even if I had to sign a one-year deal here and come back and sign a multiyear deal" in the spring, he said. "My wife and I are just thrilled that we're going to stay here and be part of not just this organization but this community." I can't believe that. Jim Rutherford offered him multiple multi-year deals, but Erik Cole turned him down. That's probably why a forward who just had a broken neck received a three-year $4 million contract, Rutherford had to inflate the numbers for Cole to want to sign it.

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08-05-2007, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by colesyfan View Post
We are only 400K over our self imposed cap. JR will not be trading to shed salary. JR has said that if they can get the 'right' player Karmonas would increase the budget. Cullen was the right player and they increased their budget.

If they wanted to get back to their $44 million self-imposed cap, they'll trade Letowski for a pick or prospect
From what I've read, we are about $1.8 million over the self-imposed cap.

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08-05-2007, 10:33 AM
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If they wanted to get back to their $44 million self-imposed cap, they'll trade Letowski for a pick or prospect
This makes a lot more sense to me then to "dump" Cole for pick/prospects.

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08-05-2007, 10:56 AM
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This makes a lot more sense to me then to "dump" Cole for pick/prospects.
Whatever deal may or may not happen is pure speculation at this point. Eklund has said numerous times that Erik Cole's name has been brought up in trade rumors. In a thread titled "Eric Cole", the only player we should speculate about is Erik Cole. Would I want to see him traded? No. However, it doesn't hurt to talk about what we could potentially receive in return if he ever was traded. We are $1.8 million over the self-imposed salary cap, so to trade Trevor Letowski would hardly put a noticeable dent in that total.

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08-05-2007, 11:27 AM
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Well in that case, my offer would be Matt Cooke and any Canucks' prospect. I doubt Carolina would accept such a deal though.

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08-05-2007, 12:27 PM
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Well in that case, my offer would be Matt Cooke and any Canucks' prospect. I doubt Carolina would accept such a deal though.
The reason I assumed it would be a financial move is because there isn't any other reason to move Erik Cole. He hasn't been a problem in the locker room and he is one of the best power forwards on the ice. If that were the case, the only player the Canucks could give up that would make the values match would be Mattias Ohlund. However, if it is a financial move they would likely take a roster player (Matt Cooke or Taylor Pyatt) and a high-end prospect (Luc Bourdon or Alexander Edler). Perhaps throw in a draft pick, a package similar to what we sent to the New York Rangers for Matt Cullen.

We acquire someone to fill Erik Cole's void in the top nine, a defensive prospect that fits our mold, and about $2 million in room under the self-imposed cap to perhaps address the defense in free agency this year (Brent Sopel or Danny Markov).

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08-05-2007, 08:23 PM
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Of course, after he has signed, Erik Cole will say he wants to stay here his entire career and a multi-year deal was his plan the entire time. However, the fact that the ESPN article states "Rutherford said the 27-year-old physical forward turned down multiyear offers and appears headed for a one-year deal that will allow him to test the open market after next season" would directly contradict what he said. Sure, some articles may speculate but an article wouldn't allow a direct quote of a general manager unless they knew it was true.

"I had every intention of wanting to be here, even if I had to sign a one-year deal here and come back and sign a multiyear deal" in the spring, he said. "My wife and I are just thrilled that we're going to stay here and be part of not just this organization but this community." I can't believe that. Jim Rutherford offered him multiple multi-year deals, but Erik Cole turned him down. That's probably why a forward who just had a broken neck received a three-year $4 million contract, Rutherford had to inflate the numbers for Cole to want to sign it.
I guess we'll agree to disagree. ESPN is not a valid source. Anyone can write an article and say so and so says this. Unless there's a direct quote coming from JR's mouth, ESPN is speclating on what DeCock speculated on.

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08-05-2007, 08:29 PM
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We are $1.8 million over the self-imposed salary cap, so to trade Trevor Letowski would hardly put a noticeable dent in that total.
Where exactly are you getting $1.8 million from? I was off by $300K, they're $700K over their self imposed budget.
Quote:
They have 13 forwards, seven defensemen and two goalies (three, really) under contract and are only slightly over budget at $44.7 million.
Trading Cole at this point in time makes absolutely no sense as we are not in financial trouble with only being $700K over their self imposed cap. Not to mention JR and Karmonas have said they would raise their budget if the 'right' player came along. Now if it was off season 2008 or the trade deadline and were not in the playoffs, then yeah, I could understand the need to move Cole. But right now it makes absolutly no sense from a financial standpoint or as a team standpoint.


Quote:
Between Matt Cullen's return and Jeff Hamilton's signing, Trevor Letowski has slipped down the depth chart into a group of four on the fourth line. Hamilton, obviously, will play. That leaves two spots for Letowski, Craig Adams and Chad LaRose. Both Adams and LaRose make less than Letowski's $800,000.

While the Canes were high on Letowski last summer -- and he's a good guy who works hard, victim of the kind of hit (by Colby Armstrong) that I don't think should be a part of the game -- he's the guy who will have to go if the Canes want to add a defenseman. Unfortunately, he doesn't have much trade value, or he would have been included in the Cullen deal.
This is also why I say Letowski will be the one to go. No he won't get us a defenseman, but he could get us a pick or a prospect defenseman that can play in Albany and be a possible call up. Especially since our call up defenseman will be Brookbank.


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08-05-2007, 09:16 PM
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Trevor Letowski likely won't net you anything. It's pretty clear he's going to be fighting with Adams for the last forward spot, with Adams having the inside edge due to his willingness to fight.

Cole won't be traded before it's clear the Canes won't make the playoffs, if at all. That much is certain.

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08-05-2007, 09:22 PM
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I guess we'll agree to disagree. ESPN is not a valid source. Anyone can write an article and say so and so says this. Unless there's a direct quote coming from JR's mouth, ESPN is speclating on what DeCock speculated on.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2505545

Quote:
"I like what Justin Williams did. He's made the commitment. He's made it long-term," Rutherford said. "I would prefer Erik Cole to do the same thing, but at this point in time, it appears he will choose to do a one-year deal."

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08-05-2007, 10:10 PM
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People need to understand the difference between a player playing hard ball to get what he is worth and a player not wanting to play with a team. Erik Cole is not the type of player that is going to take a huge pay cut to stay here, but if we offer him fair value for his services then I can't see him going anywhere else.

Why are people saying he "wanted", to sign a one year deal when he in fact signed a deal for THREE years at the time he signed it. If he "wanted", to sign a one year deal then he would have signed a one year deal. There would have been nothing we could have done about it. When Carolina saw some other RFA deals around the league and the value they were getting they no doubt had to make some adjustments to their ideology. Erik wanted a contract fitting the impact he was able to have on the ice. When he recieved it ...he signed on the dotted line three years of his services.

When the time comes, if JR thinks that Erik Cole is a viable option for the amount of money he's going to demand then he will be signed to another contract. With the amount of trouble this team has had in trying to sell big name players long term contracts, they will strike while the iron is hot when one of their own comes time to be paid. I understand the business of this and if Carolina does not find it a viable option to retain Cole at his price then he will be free to test the market. However, I would expect Erik Cole and his agent to give Carolina every chance in the world to come up with an offer that comes close to what other teams are going to offer him. Tough sign does not equal impossible sign. No home town discount does not equal player unwilling to resign with the franchise. I love that we have such a rich history of players playing for well under market value for us ...but not everybody is going to do that. Erik Cole knows how much he is worth. The same swagger he brings on the ice he brings to the table. If you hate that about him, you hate Erik Cole.

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08-05-2007, 11:41 PM
  #75
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This is also why I say Letowski will be the one to go. No he won't get us a defenseman, but he could get us a pick or a prospect defenseman that can play in Albany and be a possible call up. Especially since our call up defenseman will be Brookbank.
There's no way Letowski is getting us a defensive prospect good enough to step in right now. He has 0 trade value right now.

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