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01-01-2004, 06:40 PM
  #1
Habs4Life
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*Craig Rivet*

What is CJ thinking playing this guy?

He's a terrible defensive player
Just check out these stats!

Year to date: 2003-04 39 2 6 8 -10

-10 is the the worst +/- on the team!

When is CJ going to wake up and replace him with Ron Hainsey or Michael Komisarek?

Another Note: Give a ton of credit to Patrice Brisebois for his solid defensive play this year, he is a + 10 and leads the team in +/-

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01-01-2004, 06:44 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
What is CJ thinking playing this guy?

He's a terrible defensive player
Just check out these stats!

Year to date: 2003-04 39 2 6 8 -10

-10 is the the worst +/- on the team!

When is CJ going to wake up and replace him with Ron Hainsey or Michael Komisarek?

Another Note: Give a ton of credit to Patrice Brisebois for his solid defensive play this year, he is a + 10 and leads the team in +/-
He signed a 3year deal for 12m$..
we have to trade him ... or keep komisarek and hainsey in the pressbox or in the minor

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01-01-2004, 06:47 PM
  #3
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Rivet's trade value is better then his stats indicate. His play is exactly like his stat's indicate though. I hope we trade him fast and play Komisarek this year. Then whenQuintal goes, sign a UFA.

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01-01-2004, 07:02 PM
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Here is something I have been wondering about lately. Last year, after the season ended, Rivet played for Canada in the World Championships and from all reports played really well. You'd think that his play would suffer on the larger ice surface since he isn't particularly mobile. Do you think he is just in a slump this season or did he peak in the last couple of years and that is all that we can expect from him? He has struggled a lot this year but I wonder if there is any hope that he will bounce back.

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01-01-2004, 07:20 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
What is CJ thinking playing this guy?

He's a terrible defensive player
Just check out these stats!

Year to date: 2003-04 39 2 6 8 -10

-10 is the the worst +/- on the team!

When is CJ going to wake up and replace him with Ron Hainsey or Michael Komisarek?

Another Note: Give a ton of credit to Patrice Brisebois for his solid defensive play this year, he is a + 10 and leads the team in +/-
We are not a better team with Rivet gone, and Komi or Hainsey replacing him. I'm not a fan of Rivet, but he would have to be replaced with some experience.

I'd prefer to see Quintal gone, to free up room.

And why the props to Brisebois? Who cares about his +10, when he is a zero in the goal department. He's on pace for 22 points, sort of pathetic for a 4 million dollar defenceman who doesn't clear the crease, fight or impose any physical aspect on the ice.

We could have kept Weinrich, if all we wanted was a stay at home defenceman.

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01-01-2004, 07:22 PM
  #6
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Hes the new whipping boy this season. Now that Brisebois has picked up his game and Traverse is no longer on the team, some fans feel the need to critisize the play of yet another defenseman. I find the outright lack of respect for Rivet revolting. The guy played all 82 games last season through thick and thin with a wrist injury and played his heart out. He started off the year in a slump and has been booed ever since. He hasnt been on the top of his game, but it must be difficult turning it around when you dont have the support of the fans you play for. He has picked up his game recently having started off to a very poor start, and I dont believe he deserves the outright lack of respect some fans have been giving him.

I dont understand the need for this whipping boy mentality. Other fans dont like some players on their teams, but very few, if any outright boo them night in and night out. Montreal fans are supposed to be the most knowledgable fans, yet the respect they show towards their players is sickening. I'm often ashamed of how some fans behave at the bell center and on various message boards. They are on our team, whether you like it or not, so at least show some respect for these guys.

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01-01-2004, 07:42 PM
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I agree Thomas. While Rivet has frustrated me at times, he hasn't deserve the same treatment as Traverse. I remember back to when Rivet, Wilkie and Fitzpatrick were supposed to be the "Big 3." I think the comparison to Brisebois is appropriate in that if placed in the appropriate role, Rivet would be fine. Brisebois received two important things this year: a vote of confidence and a realistic role on the team. If Rivet received the same, which would include a number 5-6 role on the blueline, he would probably respond well also. That isn't possible until the team improves the quality of the blueline but with an improving Souray and Markov at least there's a start.

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01-02-2004, 02:32 AM
  #8
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I just think it is a slow start for Craig Rivet, I think I remember at a certain point last year, he was as far down as -9, then climbed back up to being a plus player by the end of the year. My reasoning for his slow start on D I believe is that he has not learned the true value of working out in the summer, but generally I believe that Rivet has been a better second half player than he is in the first...


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01-02-2004, 03:06 AM
  #9
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Hainsey is really ready for NHL duty , we have to make room THIS YEAR for him . He's 22 now and he have nothing left to do in Hamilton IMO .

Add to this Komisarek , he only play 1 game on 3 in Montreal ... something has to be done .

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01-02-2004, 04:06 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozeph_Balej
Hainsey is really ready for NHL duty , we have to make room THIS YEAR for him . He's 22 now and he have nothing left to do in Hamilton IMO .

Add to this Komisarek , he only play 1 game on 3 in Montreal ... something has to be done .
There is an easy solution. Hainsey plays the same side as Bouillon. Komisarek the same side as Quintal. Play Hainsey one night and Bouillon the next. THen do the same with Quintal and Komi.

Eventually the two rookies will develop enough that you can play them all the time. Right now Quintal and Bouillon aren't going to get any better. So giving them extra minutes won't help their games but extra minutes for Hainsey and Komi will definitely help.

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01-02-2004, 04:58 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
Hes the new whipping boy this season. Now that Brisebois has picked up his game and Traverse is no longer on the team, some fans feel the need to critisize the play of yet another defenseman. I find the outright lack of respect for Rivet revolting. The guy played all 82 games last season through thick and thin with a wrist injury and played his heart out. He started off the year in a slump and has been booed ever since. He hasnt been on the top of his game, but it must be difficult turning it around when you dont have the support of the fans you play for. He has picked up his game recently having started off to a very poor start, and I dont believe he deserves the outright lack of respect some fans have been giving him.

I dont understand the need for this whipping boy mentality. Other fans dont like some players on their teams, but very few, if any outright boo them night in and night out. Montreal fans are supposed to be the most knowledgable fans, yet the respect they show towards their players is sickening. I'm often ashamed of how some fans behave at the bell center and on various message boards. They are on our team, whether you like it or not, so at least show some respect for these guys.
Excellent points... maybe I should lighten up on Perreault, too. After all these guys are playing for our team and we should be pulling for them to do well.

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01-02-2004, 05:55 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
What is CJ thinking playing this guy?

He's a terrible defensive player
Just check out these stats!

Year to date: 2003-04 39 2 6 8 -10

-10 is the the worst +/- on the team!

When is CJ going to wake up and replace him with Ron Hainsey or Michael Komisarek?

Another Note: Give a ton of credit to Patrice Brisebois for his solid defensive play this year, he is a + 10 and leads the team in +/-
You are leaving out one very important stat there. His 51 PIM, leading Habs defenders in that category. PIMs is much more meaningful stat than plusminus, when you try figure out individual players input for the team, because other players cant add into his tab.

Hes been the only Canadiens defender to play full 82 game seasons in recent history, which suggests he plays with injuries and what kind of character he has.

With Rivet there Habs can carry smaller softer dmen Markov and Brisebois and others *cough*Souray*cough* dont need to fight that often.

Also everything I've read, seen or heard about Craig suggest he has decent leadership ability and is a good locker room guy.

Yeah hes had terrible year statswise, but stats dont neccesarily show the whole picture. There must be some reason why CJ lets him play those minutes.

Addition: As for Brisebois matter you're forgetting he missed 7 games and he'd be well in pace 30+ point year, if he had stayed healthy. Those goals will come... remember how Bulis couldnt get one in about 50 shots, now his 10 as shot% .


Last edited by Marksman: 01-02-2004 at 06:11 AM.
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01-02-2004, 06:47 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
Hes the new whipping boy this season. Now that Brisebois has picked up his game and Traverse is no longer on the team, some fans feel the need to critisize the play of yet another defenseman. I find the outright lack of respect for Rivet revolting. The guy played all 82 games last season through thick and thin with a wrist injury and played his heart out. He started off the year in a slump and has been booed ever since. He hasnt been on the top of his game, but it must be difficult turning it around when you dont have the support of the fans you play for. He has picked up his game recently having started off to a very poor start, and I dont believe he deserves the outright lack of respect some fans have been giving him.

I dont understand the need for this whipping boy mentality. Other fans dont like some players on their teams, but very few, if any outright boo them night in and night out. Montreal fans are supposed to be the most knowledgable fans, yet the respect they show towards their players is sickening. I'm often ashamed of how some fans behave at the bell center and on various message boards. They are on our team, whether you like it or not, so at least show some respect for these guys.
poor little Rivest ....

about the fans that don't like players of the team , you do exactly the same with Bouillon and Ribeiro , so stop to do the outraged virgin ...i am sure that you were the one to find normal what the crowd was doing to Brisebois , last year...

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01-02-2004, 06:49 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
What is CJ thinking playing this guy?

He's a terrible defensive player
Just check out these stats!

Year to date: 2003-04 39 2 6 8 -10

-10 is the the worst +/- on the team!

When is CJ going to wake up and replace him with Ron Hainsey or Michael Komisarek?

Another Note: Give a ton of credit to Patrice Brisebois for his solid defensive play this year, he is a + 10 and leads the team in +/-
imo rivet is not playing that bad lately. i just wish he was smart enough to play like brisebois no emotion and just shot the puck out if it comes to him and rack up points (he must be up to 9 by now)on the power play.why bother playing with heart and emotion sticking up for your teammates and goalies but i guess he"s not quite up to brisebois money yet.

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01-02-2004, 07:27 AM
  #15
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This is sh**........I've said it before "Rivet IS NOT A GRADE {A} D-MAN" and this CJ continues to play him with "the cube"(an AHL D-man) ??????
Rivet is best when paired with a NHL player....and still he is a #4 or #5 guy.....thanks

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01-02-2004, 08:40 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
poor little Rivest ....
You proved my point, thanks.

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01-02-2004, 09:03 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
He's a terrible defensive player
Just check out these stats!

Year to date: 2003-04 39 2 6 8 -10

-10 is the the worst +/- on the team!

Another Note: Give a ton of credit to Patrice Brisebois for his solid defensive play this year, he is a + 10 and leads the team in +/-
A terrible defensive player because he's -10? Does that mean Bulis is a terrible defensive player because he has the worst +/- of all the forwards? Bulis is -6 having spent the season on the top two lines, or with Juneau (+1), and Dackell (+4).

No, I'm not down on Bulis. I just think the +/- stat is overrated.

If we trade Rivet, who have we got on the right side?

Quintal: 35 yrs old, physical, slow and getting slower, and has made his share of mistakes this year.

Brisebois: 33 yrs old, non-physical (4 PIM), offensive d-man with no goals in over a year. Playing within his limits at $4 mill per year.

Komisarek: Very physical, but very raw. A ton of potential but still developing.

If we trade Rivet, and go with those three, who is next to be recalled if one of our right D-men get hurt? Hainsey and Dykhuis are both left D. Archer, Cote and Plante are not ready yet, and may never be ready. That leaves Traverse and Beauchemin, who both shoot left. (Traverse has played the right side. ) Who are the right D-men in Hamilton?

Rivet is 29, a rugged d-man with leadership skills, works hard, is overpaid, and has played better lately. He adds grit to a team that has been crying for toughness for years.

BTW, anybody want to see Bouillon paired with Brisebois?

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01-02-2004, 01:05 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Malone
A terrible defensive player because he's -10? Does that mean Bulis is a terrible defensive player because he has the worst +/- of all the forwards? Bulis is -6 having spent the season on the top two lines, or with Juneau (+1), and Dackell (+4).

No, I'm not down on Bulis. I just think the +/- stat is overrated.

If we trade Rivet, who have we got on the right side?

Quintal: 35 yrs old, physical, slow and getting slower, and has made his share of mistakes this year.

Brisebois: 33 yrs old, non-physical (4 PIM), offensive d-man with no goals in over a year. Playing within his limits at $4 mill per year.

Komisarek: Very physical, but very raw. A ton of potential but still developing.

If we trade Rivet, and go with those three, who is next to be recalled if one of our right D-men get hurt? Hainsey and Dykhuis are both left D. Archer, Cote and Plante are not ready yet, and may never be ready. That leaves Traverse and Beauchemin, who both shoot left. (Traverse has played the right side. ) Who are the right D-men in Hamilton?

Rivet is 29, a rugged d-man with leadership skills, works hard, is overpaid, and has played better lately. He adds grit to a team that has been crying for toughness for years.

BTW, anybody want to see Bouillon paired with Brisebois?
I would rather have Dykhuis then rivet any day of the week!

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01-02-2004, 01:17 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
I would rather have Dykhuis then rivet any day of the week!
Well, if that doesn't put you in a minority of one then I'll be shocked. Dykhuis brings little if anything to the table. He is a decent skater, that's about it. He is soft, doesn't use his size at all, and only succeeds when paired with a quality d-man. He is neither offensively or defensively gifted. At least Rivet has a physical edge to his game when he is healthy.

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01-02-2004, 01:36 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Thomas
I dont understand the need for this whipping boy mentality...I'm often ashamed of how some fans behave at the bell center and on various message boards.
Oh, I agree. And besides, Kilger and Juneau should be the whipping boys

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01-02-2004, 01:51 PM
  #21
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I would rather have Dykhuis then rivet any day of the week!
Hope it's a nice joke

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01-02-2004, 09:08 PM
  #22
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So a guy hops over the boards to replace someone who's making a bad line change, struggles and fails to get into position and is awarded with a big minus in that oh-so-useful +/- category.

Fair?

Player steps on the ice just in the nick of time for his forwards to score a goal. He gets a plus. Deserved?

Player marks his man out perfectly, completely takes out another, blocks a shot and still manages to tie up the stick of his original man on the play. Meanwhile his partner is into figure skating and does a salchow around his marker thus letting him score. First player, playing brilliantly, gets a minus. See a trend?

Team is doing great defensively, but a shot from the point sails through the goalies outstretched hand and goes in the net - should have been the easiest of saves. Minus for everyone. Lovely.

On the PP, one defender munches up a pass and an opponent scores. Minuses all around. Meanwhile, on the PK, everyone is doing terribly and it's the goalie standing on his head to make save after save. Suddenly, a forward has a shot bounce off his head and he heads down to score. Welcome to the plus club.

Harmless pass across the net which is cut out nicely saving a goal, however in the process it goes into the net costing a goal. Ouch.

Anyone else see how utterly random the +/- category can be? At the very most it shows general trends. But very general. All I can say is that when Breezy was -31 a couple of years back, he was bad defensively and that was a good indicator. But on a team with an overall +/- of -1 (as we are now), anything within about six or seven means pretty much nothing.

Rivet has not played his best hockey and is the worst +/- on the team. Fine. Is he playing as bad as some of you make that -10 sound? Hardly. Sure, he's had a tough year and has made more mistakes than you'd expect him to make; sure he's been guilty of trying too hard and of making a few silly mistakes.

Does anyone here honestly think Komi is an overall upgrade? Hainsey? Perhaps one day, maybe for Komi even sooner than later, but Rivet brings more to the table than just a +/- stat that the casual fan might point out as abnormal.

Stats tell *some* of the story. Watch games and use your heads and *eyes* to know the real story. Rivet has played much better lately, but that +/- stat can't show that.

Can it.

ACF

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01-02-2004, 09:29 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Guy!
Anyone else see how utterly random the +/- category can be?
ha! You should send your statistical analysis to Mr Mike Modano. I'm sure he would be relieved.

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01-03-2004, 03:30 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
I would rather have Dykhuis then rivet any day of the week!
That is absurd

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