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Some TOR D-man Proposals

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Old
01-01-2004, 01:17 AM
  #1
Verbal Kint*
 
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Some TOR D-man Proposals

Take in mind the state of the clubs that would be trading here, as poor playing teams are the Leafs' saviours.

-To TOR
Eric Brewer

To EDM
Aki Berg, Brendan Bell, 3rd Round Pick, possibly cash


-To TOR
Miroslav Satan, Alexei Zhitnik,

To BUF
Nik Antropov, Piere Hedin, Aki Berg, 5th Round Pick


-To TOR
Michael Peca, Adrian Aucoin

To NYI
Nik Antropov, Karel Pilar, Alexei Ponikarovski, 3rd Round Pick


So please point out where my Maple Leaf Homerism came into effect, what needs to be changed, and how in the world the Leafs can get a half decent defenceman!

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Old
01-01-2004, 06:46 AM
  #2
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I dont think the that the isles/oils/sabres fans are going to be too happy with those deals

Afterall, you forgot Darcy Tucker

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Old
01-01-2004, 07:59 AM
  #3
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I can't believe you would offer Edmonton Aki Berg, Brendan Bell & a 3rd Round Pick for just Brewer and not offer the same to Vancouver for Jovanovski, Bertuzzi & Ohlund or is it that the Leafs wouldn't be willing to take on an extra $12 million per year salary dump from the Canucks? After all, Quinn drafted Ohlund. Brian Burke though would likely also want Druken & Holden included in the players coming back to Vancouver. Maybe include those two instead of Bell & change the 3rd round pick to a 6th round pick. The Leafs can keep McCabe & Mogilny though. I don't ever want to see those losers back in a Canuck uniform.

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Old
01-01-2004, 08:01 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Take in mind the state of the clubs that would be trading here, as poor playing teams are the Leafs' saviours.

-To TOR
Eric Brewer

To EDM
Aki Berg, Brendan Bell, 3rd Round Pick, possibly cash


-To TOR
Miroslav Satan, Alexei Zhitnik,

To BUF
Nik Antropov, Piere Hedin, Aki Berg, 5th Round Pick


-To TOR
Michael Peca, Adrian Aucoin

To NYI
Nik Antropov, Karel Pilar, Alexei Ponikarovski, 3rd Round Pick


So please point out where my Maple Leaf Homerism came into effect, what needs to be changed, and how in the world the Leafs can get a half decent defenceman!


This is coming from a Leaf fan

-To TOR
Eric Brewer

To EDM
Aki Berg, Brendan Bell, 3rd Round Pick, possibly cash

HOCKEYGOON: Horrible deal for Edmonton, Basically Brewer for 2 5/6 D men a 3rd round pick and some cash.

-To TOR
Miroslav Satan, Alexei Zhitnik,

To BUF
Nik Antropov, Piere Hedin, Aki Berg, 5th Round Pick

HOCKEYGOON: Lets say that Antropov and Berg offset Zhitnik, that leaves Satan for Hedin and a 5th round pick


-To TOR
Michael Peca, Adrian Aucoin

To NYI
Nik Antropov, Karel Pilar, Alexei Ponikarovski, 3rd Round Pick


HOCKEYGOON: Antropov cancels out Peca, Then its Poni Boy and left overs for a very good D man in Aucoin. Doesn't help the Islanders....

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Old
01-01-2004, 08:03 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Take in mind the state of the clubs that would be trading here, as poor playing teams are the Leafs' saviours.

-To TOR
Eric Brewer

To EDM
Aki Berg, Brendan Bell, 3rd Round Pick, possibly cash


-To TOR
Miroslav Satan, Alexei Zhitnik,

To BUF
Nik Antropov, Piere Hedin, Aki Berg, 5th Round Pick


-To TOR
Michael Peca, Adrian Aucoin

To NYI
Nik Antropov, Karel Pilar, Alexei Ponikarovski, 3rd Round Pick


So please point out where my Maple Leaf Homerism came into effect, what needs to be changed, and how in the world the Leafs can get a half decent defenceman!
You're on your own

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Old
01-01-2004, 08:06 AM
  #6
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Take in mind the state of the clubs that would be trading here, as poor playing teams are the Leafs' saviours.

-To TOR
Eric Brewer

To EDM
Aki Berg, Brendan Bell, 3rd Round Pick, possibly cash


-To TOR
Miroslav Satan, Alexei Zhitnik,

To BUF
Nik Antropov, Piere Hedin, Aki Berg, 5th Round Pick


-To TOR
Michael Peca, Adrian Aucoin

To NYI
Nik Antropov, Karel Pilar, Alexei Ponikarovski, 3rd Round Pick


So please point out where my Maple Leaf Homerism came into effect, what needs to be changed, and how in the world the Leafs can get a half decent defenceman!

Basically, those deals are all too big to be realistic, and are fairly one-sided in favor of the Leafs. In some cases, you have players who are even available (Aucoin) coming to the Leafs and most of your deals are "lottsa tin for a little bit of gold" deals - quanity for quality. Some of those deals also add unrealistic $ to the Leaf payroll.

Also, players like Berg and Pilar do not have that kind of trade value and Antropov, as good as he is, still needs to show that he can stay in one piece before he will have value that equates to his high talent level.

Of the three deals, the only one that has a remote chance of happening, is the Buffalo deal. I could see Toronto trading something like Berg and pick for Zhitnik at the deadline.

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Old
01-01-2004, 08:32 AM
  #7
Aaron Vickers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
and most of your deals are "lottsa tin for a little bit of gold" deals - quanity for quality.
AMEN!

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Old
01-01-2004, 08:39 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinto80
I dont think the that the isles/oils/sabres fans are going to be too happy with those deals

Afterall, you forgot Darcy Tucker


LOL! Well done!

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Old
01-01-2004, 09:04 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Take in mind the state of the clubs that would be trading here, as poor playing teams are the Leafs' saviours.

-To TOR
Eric Brewer

To EDM
Aki Berg, Brendan Bell, 3rd Round Pick, possibly cash


-To TOR
Miroslav Satan, Alexei Zhitnik,

To BUF
Nik Antropov, Piere Hedin, Aki Berg, 5th Round Pick


-To TOR
Michael Peca, Adrian Aucoin

To NYI
Nik Antropov, Karel Pilar, Alexei Ponikarovski, 3rd Round Pick


So please point out where my Maple Leaf Homerism came into effect, what needs to be changed, and how in the world the Leafs can get a half decent defenceman!

Have you called these in to the FAN 590 yet?? I mean, I'm sure you're overpaying for what you're getting. Your fellow Leaf GM's will help you get more bang for your buck if you just ask...

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Old
01-01-2004, 09:56 AM
  #10
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Firstly, Brewer is no-where near the value of Oluhnd or Jovo, and the situation was meant to help out their future since they are rebuilding. Perhaps Pilar instead of Berg and Colaiacovo instead of Bell?

The Zhitnik deal was more because Buffalo's sinking and he's a UFA come seasons end. I figured it was more Satan for Antropov and the fifth for developmental purposes and Berg+Hedin for half a seasons' worth of Zhitnik

The Islander deal was banking on the possibilities that a) Islanders start to go downhill again and b) they're still in salary dump mode.


I don't mean to Homer yet I always do, so if anyone could add their two cents (or a deal for a D-man that works) it would be much appreciated.

Oh and add Tucker into all of the afforementioned deals

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Old
01-01-2004, 10:00 AM
  #11
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Here, how're these re-workings

To TOR
Brewer

To EDM
Antropov, Bell, 5th

To TOR
Satan, screw Zhitnik, never liked him much anyway

To BUF
Antropov, 4th

To NYI
Meh, the deals might have worked a while ago.

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Old
01-01-2004, 10:06 AM
  #12
victor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Firstly, Brewer is no-where near the value of Oluhnd or Jovo, and the situation was meant to help out their future since they are rebuilding
Please, explain to me how trading a 24 year old hard hitting defenseman like Brewer for Berg/Bell/3rd would help the Oilers?

A 24 year old all star, arguably the best Oiler defender in the last month, for spare parts?

How about Sundin for Horcoff? I'm sure the Oilers could throw in a pick, and a little cash, if the teachers pension fund is not what it used to be ;-)

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Old
01-01-2004, 10:07 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Firstly, Brewer is no-where near the value of Oluhnd or Jovo, and the situation was meant to help out their future since they are rebuilding. Perhaps Pilar instead of Berg and Colaiacovo instead of Bell?

The Zhitnik deal was more because Buffalo's sinking and he's a UFA come seasons end. I figured it was more Satan for Antropov and the fifth for developmental purposes and Berg+Hedin for half a seasons' worth of Zhitnik

The Islander deal was banking on the possibilities that a) Islanders start to go downhill again and b) they're still in salary dump mode.


I don't mean to Homer yet I always do, so if anyone could add their two cents (or a deal for a D-man that works) it would be much appreciated.

Oh and add Tucker into all of the afforementioned deals
Where to start, where to start.. first off, Brewer's value is a a lot closer to Ohlund/Jovo than you would allude to. Remind me who made the Canadian Olympic team.. was it Jovo? I know it's an overused defense but Brewer is showing signs lately that he has risen over the hump.. he is starting to look like a dominating defenceman now and there is absolutely no way Edmonton will trade him away for Karl Pilar! Secondly, how are the Oilers rebuilding? Just because they are young doesn't mean they are only looking at the future.. the only deal that even fits into a rebuilding scheme is the Comrie trade and Lowe realistically had no other options besides trading for prospects.

You seem to really be overrating the value of Antropov and your 5/6 d-men in Pilar, Berg and Bell.. Antropov's trade value is at an all-time low right now because he has yet to show he can play a full season in the NHL. His value is much greater to Toronto than it is in a trade as he definitely still has the potential to become a real dominant center. Very few teams will trade away their marquee players for guys like Berg and Pilar.. they are the kind of players that almost every team has a few of. Edmonton has Ferguson, Vancouver has Slegr, Ottawa has Hnidy etc.. I truly doubt that a team like Edmonton will trade away Brewer in an attempt to rebuild behind Berg..

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Old
01-01-2004, 10:22 AM
  #14
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The problem I see with Brewer is that although he's showing signs of getting over the hump, he never seems to be able to quite get there. The other problem is that if you look at the Toronto roster, all their players could be called spare parts, are overpaid, or would be a lateral move that could upset chemistry. Antropov, Berg and our defence prospects are all we have for leverage....And deep pockets. So how much do we shell out for your roster?


Last edited by Verbal Kint*: 01-01-2004 at 10:26 AM.
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01-01-2004, 10:26 AM
  #15
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I'd also like to point out that I haven't had much sleep lately, in fact I'm going on 35 hrs w/o caffine. Damn new year, grumble grumble.

Edit: Wow, didn't think I'd hit 100 posts with one like this

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Old
01-01-2004, 10:31 AM
  #16
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[QUOTE=Maple_Leafs_Forever]Take in mind the state of the clubs that would be trading here, as poor playing teams are the Leafs' saviours.

-To TOR
Eric Brewer

To EDM
Aki Berg, Brendan Bell, 3rd Round Pick, possibly cash


If you want Brewer - how about Kaberle straight across

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Old
01-01-2004, 10:37 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
Where to start, where to start.. first off, Brewer's value is a a lot closer to Ohlund/Jovo than you would allude to. Remind me who made the Canadian Olympic team.. was it Jovo? I know it's an overused defense but Brewer is showing signs lately that he has risen over the hump.. he is starting to look like a dominating defenceman now and there is absolutely no way Edmonton will trade him away for Karl Pilar! Secondly, how are the Oilers rebuilding? Just because they are young doesn't mean they are only looking at the future.. the only deal that even fits into a rebuilding scheme is the Comrie trade and Lowe realistically had no other options besides trading for prospects.

You seem to really be overrating the value of Antropov and your 5/6 d-men in Pilar, Berg and Bell.. Antropov's trade value is at an all-time low right now because he has yet to show he can play a full season in the NHL. His value is much greater to Toronto than it is in a trade as he definitely still has the potential to become a real dominant center. Very few teams will trade away their marquee players for guys like Berg and Pilar.. they are the kind of players that almost every team has a few of. Edmonton has Ferguson, Vancouver has Slegr, Ottawa has Hnidy etc.. I truly doubt that a team like Edmonton will trade away Brewer in an attempt to rebuild behind Berg..
Amen to that brother!

Those first proposals are just brutal. Why don't the Leafs trade Kaberle to the Oilers for Cory Cross, Doug Lynch and a 5th? Like that would happen.That's the same type of deal that you were first offering for Brewer.

I am not so sure that Antorpov really has that much value around the league. He is damaged goods. Constantly injured. He may have it in him yet to realize his full potential and stay healthy, but I can't see any GM giving up Brewer or Satan for him.

Take off your Blue glasses before making such proposals, and realize that you won't get quality for Leaf spare parts.

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01-01-2004, 10:38 AM
  #18
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Well

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOCKEYGOON


-To TOR
Michael Peca, Adrian Aucoin

To NYI
Nik Antropov, Karel Pilar, Alexei Ponikarovski, 3rd Round Pick


....
Not sure if that would get either one of them alone. I think Antropov is a less sturdy version of Kvasha. I think that Antro might have more offensive upside, but Kvasha is more solid all around, and wont break if you breathe on him, Pilar no interest and all, Ponikarovsky no interest, and the 3rd is in the lower half of the third round.


HOw about

Michael Peca, and Adrian Aucoin

for

Antropov, Steen, and Pilar

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Old
01-01-2004, 10:45 AM
  #19
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[QUOTE=OilersRRRock/Kim]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
If you want Brewer - how about Kaberle straight across
There's a huge discussion on the Leaf boards about this. Most say that its just a lateral move and that Kaberle, who's only one year older, has actually proven himself, whereas Brewer is "still getting over the hump." Kaberle may not be the same physical presence as Brewer but he is strong positionally, which is why most "leaf fans" believe we get the slightly shorter end of the stick.

The main concern is that it will upset the chemistry of the Leafs and take out some of our offense. Most would rather trade prospects and someone for him instead (at fair value).

With that finally in mind

To TOR
Brewer

To EDM
Antropov, Defensive prospect (Bell), 3rd

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01-01-2004, 10:46 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
Not sure if that would get either one of them alone. I think Antropov is a less sturdy version of Kvasha. I think that Antro might have more offensive upside, but Kvasha is more solid all around, and wont break if you breathe on him, Pilar no interest and all, Ponikarovsky no interest, and the 3rd is in the lower half of the third round.


HOw about

Michael Peca, and Adrian Aucoin

for

Antropov, Steen, and Pilar
As much as I'd hate to part with Steen, I'd make that deal.

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Old
01-01-2004, 11:02 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
To TOR
Brewer

To EDM
Antropov, Defensive prospect (Bell), 3rd
Again, why would Edmonton do this? Already short on defense, with Smith and Cross injured, and trade for a foward, a defensive prospect, and a 3rd round draft pick.

I don't think that Edmonton is a good fit for a defenseman trade with Toronto. I believe that Edmonton, if looking to trade for the future, could find a team with better picks/prospects.

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Old
01-01-2004, 11:08 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor
Again, why would Edmonton do this? Already short on defense, with Smith and Cross injured, and trade for a foward, a defensive prospect, and a 3rd round draft pick.

I don't think that Edmonton is a good fit for a defenseman trade with Toronto. I believe that Edmonton, if looking to trade for the future, could find a team with better picks/prospects.
I was, sadly thinking the same. The other problem is Antropov's lack of speed in a fast lineup. I guess we'll just have to take Brewer, dress him up as cross, and drag him back to T.O.

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01-01-2004, 11:14 AM
  #23
victor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
I was, sadly thinking the same. The other problem is Antropov's lack of speed in a fast lineup. I guess we'll just have to take Brewer, dress him up as cross, and drag him back to T.O.
;-)

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Old
01-01-2004, 11:36 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever


-To TOR
Michael Peca, Adrian Aucoin

To NYI
Nik Antropov, Karel Pilar, Alexei Ponikarovski, 3rd Round Pick


So please point out where my Maple Leaf Homerism came into effect, what needs to be changed, and how in the world the Leafs can get a half decent defenceman!

No interest at all in the fragile Antropov.

I don't know enough about Alexei Ponikarovski,but don't want Pilar as the key to either a Peca or Aucoin deal.

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Old
01-01-2004, 11:42 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
Not sure if that would get either one of them alone. I think Antropov is a less sturdy version of Kvasha. I think that Antro might have more offensive upside, but Kvasha is more solid all around, and wont break if you breathe on him, Pilar no interest and all, Ponikarovsky no interest, and the 3rd is in the lower half of the third round.


HOw about

Michael Peca, and Adrian Aucoin

for

Antropov, Steen, and Pilar



6-7 months ago Milbury wanted Antropov and he was the sticking point that nixed the Peca to Toronto deal.That was before his 4th injury.

The fact that we're now reading from different sources that 19 yr old Stajan was the recent sticking point,instead of Antropov,is a pretty good indicater that the nyi front office is either now longer as high on Antropov or not interested having him be the centerpiece to a major deal.

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