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Old
07-22-2007, 11:11 AM
  #1
JamesG1221
 
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OT: J.R.- YAY or NAY

So Brooks had a pretty strong opinion on Roenick today. I thought maybe you guys could read this and say whether you agree or not. (I know its Brooks but it's really a matter of opinion):

Jeremy Roenick, who at some point in his career after leaving Chicago decided to concentrate on becoming a personality rather than maintaining his stature as an elite player, also retired this summer.

And when he did, he did so as a symbol of potential greatness never reached, a mere shadow over the final bloc of his career of what he should have been.

It all started to go wrong for Roenick in the summer of 1996 when he declined an invitation to play for the eventual championship-winning Team USA in the World Cup - the greatest American hockey team ever - because he was unsigned, and was then traded to the Coyotes by the Blackhawks.

When Roenick was 22, 23 and 24, he seemed destined to be included in the conversation about the greatest American-born players ever. But he became an act rather than a main attraction
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07-22-2007, 11:31 AM
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blue2noise
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Agree 100%

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07-22-2007, 11:48 AM
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ditto

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Old
07-22-2007, 12:09 PM
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Wow, I thought this would be about getting JR as our third line center

On topic, yeah I agree, one of the best American players, especially in his prime. Unfortunate his career ended the way it did.

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07-22-2007, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesG1221 View Post

It all started to go wrong for Roenick in the summer of 1996 when he declined an invitation to play for the eventual championship-winning Team USA in the World Cup - the greatest American hockey team ever - because he was unsigned, and was then traded to the Coyotes by the Blackhawks.
this is my one problem with the article .... immediately the 1980 team comes into my mind and i dont know how you could even compare the 2... other then the fact that neither team would have been competitive in their respective tournaments unless their goaltenders were far and away the best players .... period

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Old
07-22-2007, 12:28 PM
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Geez, the guy just got old. He was a PPG player in Phoenix with no supporting cast and he was great as a Flyer, his numbers weren't mindblowing but he was a great two-way player and provided a ton of energy.

He's 37 now, his body ain't what it used to be. I don't think you can really say his decline is due to the fact that he had a personality-he had a big mouth in Chicago, too.

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07-22-2007, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Doctor Hate View Post
Geez, the guy just got old. He was a PPG player in Phoenix with no supporting cast and he was great as a Flyer, his numbers weren't mindblowing but he was a great two-way player and provided a ton of energy.

He's 37 now, his body ain't what it used to be. I don't think you can really say his decline is due to the fact that he had a personality-he had a big mouth in Chicago, too.
He did have Big Keith playing on his wing. Not sure if he could have taken better care of himself as his career continued, Who knows if he trained during the lockout year, I don't recall him having any major injurys, other tha having his Jaw broken a few times, once by us when one of our guys put a slapper in his already broken jaw in his face from the pint off the face off, i always thought he was a tough as nails player, yea he yapped alot but for the most part he backed it up, he did come off selfish overall, particularly the last 2 years of his caree, Brooks probaly doesn't like him because Roenick may have told him to F himself @ one point or another.

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07-22-2007, 12:53 PM
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Not sure you wanted "outside opinions" but I'll offer mine anyway:

I've been saying the exact same thing about JR for years.

More shine than substance.

Which is why he even recently continued to be talked up among those on HF concerned with the superficial - "He's such a greeeeeeat personality...We need more outspooooken types in this league....Most NHLers are soooooo boring..."

Just me, but I've always liked guys who do their talking on the ice. Trottier, Orr, Leetch, and so on. In fact, the quiet, HUMBLE types are often the best players.

If I need a personality, a jokester, I'll travel to the Catskills.

Part of what is unique about the NHL is that a majority of players are HUMBLE. Respectful. Quiet. It's a stark contrast to some (many) in the NBA and NFL. That may not be the preference of other fans in this Age of Celebrity, but it is mine. I do not catsigate JR for having a big trap. (Nor, do I wish to change him, like the fools on HF who pine for other NHLers to suddenly become what they are not - outspoken fools - "because it will make the sport more pop-U-lar"! )

But for several years, there has been no "there" there with this guy. He has been inflated by a media that seeks "characters," and a Pavlov's Dog Nuuuu Age fanbase that mindlessly goes along with the concept that brash and outspoken = cool.

Production/winning > celebrity/pithy quotes. Always.

Brooks has been on his game of late.

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07-22-2007, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesG1221 View Post
So Brooks had a pretty strong opinion on Roenick today. I thought maybe you guys could read this and say whether you agree or not. (I know its Brooks but it's really a matter of opinion):

Jeremy Roenick, who at some point in his career after leaving Chicago decided to concentrate on becoming a personality rather than maintaining his stature as an elite player, also retired this summer.

And when he did, he did so as a symbol of potential greatness never reached, a mere shadow over the final bloc of his career of what he should have been.

It all started to go wrong for Roenick in the summer of 1996 when he declined an invitation to play for the eventual championship-winning Team USA in the World Cup - the greatest American hockey team ever - because he was unsigned, and was then traded to the Coyotes by the Blackhawks.

When Roenick was 22, 23 and 24, he seemed destined to be included in the conversation about the greatest American-born players ever. But he became an act rather than a main attraction
.

Brooks goes too far in saying that it was a decision to become a character. But JR certainly was a disappointing player after a great start to his career.

He certainly isn't a HOFer.

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07-22-2007, 03:10 PM
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I don't know. Roenick IMO was never a superstar. He was an excellent player for a while but got a big head along the way too. Eventually his game started falling apart with age. Very good player. Too big an ego. Never won a championship--so maybe an HOF'er. Maybe not. Not a slam dunk for it. I never particularly liked him but it's hard for me to say that he fell short of his potential. Lindros on the other hand....

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07-22-2007, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I don't know. Roenick IMO was never a superstar. He was an excellent player for a while but got a big head along the way too. Eventually his game started falling apart with age. Very good player. Too big an ego. Never won a championship--so maybe an HOF'er. Maybe not. Not a slam dunk for it. I never particularly liked him but it's hard for me to say that he fell short of his potential. Lindros on the other hand....
JR Had superstar written all over him.

4 straight 90+ point seasons had him on pace to be the greatest American Born player ever and then he held out and it was all downhill from there.

was a playoff performer and a clutch guy. Physical and talented and cocky-enough to play an in-your-face style.

His Agent got him believing that the success the Hawks were enjoying was because of him and to an extent he was right. For a 3 year period JR outscored the 2nd place scorer on his team by 30+ points and when it came time for the Black Hawks to pay the man they hard-balled him.

Did he allow the fact that he was the BEST player on the team affect and cloud his judgement? without question.

Let's look at these numbers

20 years old - 41 goals and 53 assists
21 years old - 53 goals and 50 assists
22 years old - 50 goals and 57 assists
23 years old - 46 goals and 61 assists

during those years he played in 34 PO games and scored 17 goals and 23 assists for 40 points

The problem is, he got cocky and while he was on pace to becoming a great player, he allowed it to go to his head and he fell off significantly after the hold out.

Coulda been a contenda

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07-22-2007, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
this is my one problem with the article .... immediately the 1980 team comes into my mind and i dont know how you could even compare the 2... other then the fact that neither team would have been competitive in their respective tournaments unless their goaltenders were far and away the best players .... period
The 1980 team may have been the best amateur American team, but certainly not better than the teams when they started including pros.

Totally agree with the article on Roenik 100%. He started his career when he was a kid with 3 straight 100 point seasons and never came CLOSE to playing like that again.

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Old
07-22-2007, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
this is my one problem with the article .... immediately the 1980 team comes into my mind and i dont know how you could even compare the 2... other then the fact that neither team would have been competitive in their respective tournaments unless their goaltenders were far and away the best players .... period
Let me just state that without a doubt in my mind that the 1996 USA World Cup team would have absolutely dominated the 1980 Olympic team.

They beat the Russians one time, they were marginally the better team on the ice that night, 99 out of 100 games the Russians crush the 1980 Olympic team.

They were good, but not nearly close to being great. That's what made the win so shocking.

The 96 US WC team was comprised of the best Americans at that time and were a great team. Additionally the US Team had to beat Canada in a best of 3 series that year.

The 80 Olympic team couldn't hold the 96 Team water bottles

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07-22-2007, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
this is my one problem with the article .... immediately the 1980 team comes into my mind and i dont know how you could even compare the 2... other then the fact that neither team would have been competitive in their respective tournaments unless their goaltenders were far and away the best players .... period
A bit of an issue with this statement.

For the 80 team, yes you are absolutely correct.

for the 96 World Cup team, in the best of 3 final, the US team scored 13 goals against an in his prime Martin Broduer and the best collection of defenceman Canada has ever seen. To say that winning that tourney was all Richter is a little revisionist.

Yes he won the Tourney MVP, but you can't deny what teh US team did offensively in that final series.

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07-22-2007, 10:10 PM
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One thing that I think has to be brought up is the fact that JR has suffered almost as many if not more documented concussions then Lindros in his career. I'm sure constantly battling such an injury could hamper a players abilities especially as he becomes older

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07-22-2007, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
A bit of an issue with this statement.

For the 80 team, yes you are absolutely correct.

for the 96 World Cup team, in the best of 3 final, the US team scored 13 goals against an in his prime Martin Broduer and the best collection of defenceman Canada has ever seen. To say that winning that tourney was all Richter is a little revisionist.

Yes he won the Tourney MVP, but you can't deny what teh US team did offensively in that final series.
Brett Hull and John LeClair had standout performances for the U.S.. They led the entire tournament in scoring and were the only players in double figures in points.

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Old
07-23-2007, 05:26 AM
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Can't take away the fact that he was a great player for some time, but towards the end he definitely acted more as a personality, but I personally enjoyed when he was mic'd up or when he'd throw a water bottle at a ref.

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