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Kaberle/Harrison for Gonchar

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01-02-2004, 10:02 AM
  #1
Baun21
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Kaberle/Harrison for Gonchar

This might be a better way to go for Toronto than Brewer. Gonchar is the 5th best defenseman in the league behind Lidstrom, Pronger, Blake, and Jovo and Washington will be shopping their high-salaried players.

The deal is good for Toronto because Gonchar is one of those guys that you can pretty well count on at least 60 points a season every year. I don't know that you can say the same about Kaberle.

The deal is good for Washington because it allows them to cut payroll and get something relatively similar back in return plus they get Jay Harrison


Opinions?

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01-02-2004, 10:10 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baun21
This might be a better way to go for Toronto than Brewer. Gonchar is the 5th best defenseman in the league behind Lidstrom, Pronger, Blake, and Jovo and Washington will be shopping their high-salaried players.

The deal is good for Toronto because Gonchar is one of those guys that you can pretty well count on at least 60 points a season every year. I don't know that you can say the same about Kaberle.

The deal is good for Washington because it allows them to cut payroll and get something relatively similar back in return plus they get Jay Harrison


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Is that a Rumour or just a Hypothical trade you are suggesting??

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01-02-2004, 10:20 AM
  #3
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The Leafs defense took a serious nosedive and looked horrible without Kaberle (and Berg) in the lineup. I'm worried that we're not fully appreciative of what Kabs brings to the table, and we'll regret trading him if we do. Kaberle is a young, skilled and fast defenseman who can put up points. Gonchar is an older offensive defenseman who can produce more, but he doesn't address the backend. I personally wouldn't make the trade.

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01-02-2004, 10:22 AM
  #4
Baun21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Is that a Rumour or just a Hypothical trade you are suggesting??

Hypo. Although, now I see that this same topic is tackled somewhat on the message board below. That said that thread has basically degenerated into a insult fest between sluggo and all takers. There is some good stuff there. I mean sure I'd like to see a package of Berg, one of Harrison, Bell or Wellwood and a 1st go for Gonchar but I don't think that will happen. Perhaps, maybe perhaps something like Berg, Wellwood and Colaiacovo might work.

I'd like to pursue this without the insults. Anyone else interested in this?

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01-02-2004, 10:25 AM
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No, I'd keep Kabby. And Berg.

Why are we trying to add a primarily offensive defenseman anyway? Even if that defenceman is okay or good defensively, chances are he'd think of joining in the rush. We saw what happened last night when our defencemen pinched. If anything, trade for a pure defensive defenceman.

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01-02-2004, 10:29 AM
  #6
Baun21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoM
No, I'd keep Kabby. And Berg.

Why are we trying to add a primarily offensive defenseman anyway? Even if that defenceman is okay or good defensively, chances are he'd think of joining in the rush. We saw what happened last night when our defencemen pinched. If anything, trade for a pure defensive defenceman.

The problem is you have to go with what is out there on the market. I doubt that Brewer would make much of an impact (he seems to be the other one people are mentioning). We're looking for an 'impact' defenseman here and Gonchar is the one that is available. Adam Foote would be nice to have but you'd never get him ffrom the Avs.

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01-02-2004, 10:32 AM
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True, but I wouldn't be too pleased if we made a trade for the sake of it to marginally improve an area largely alright...if nothing is readily available, shouldn't we just work with what we got...?

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01-02-2004, 10:33 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baun21
The problem is you have to go with what is out there on the market.
No you don't. If it's not a nice fit and doesn't address your most pressing concerns, don't overpay, don't make the trade.

Plus I'm sure that if your pro scouting was doing its job properly, you could get what you really need for much cheaper. After all, Keith Carney went for a draft pick a few years ago. No reason to believe that you couldn't find a better deal somewhere else if you looked hard enough.

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01-02-2004, 10:36 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
No you don't. If it's not a nice fit and doesn't address your most pressing concerns, don't overpay, don't make the trade.

Plus I'm sure that if your pro scouting was doing its job properly, you could get what you really need for much cheaper. After all, Keith Carney went for a draft pick a few years ago. No reason to believe that you couldn't find a better deal somewhere else if you looked hard enough.
Who would you go after? Looking around the only guy I can see out there might be Cale Hulse out in Phoenix but I doubt he is on the market


Last edited by Baun21: 01-02-2004 at 10:41 AM.
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01-02-2004, 10:44 AM
  #10
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I don't have any names, but there are always the soon to be UFA's, the salary dump candidates and maybe even the underachieving young players to look at.

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01-02-2004, 10:48 AM
  #11
Baun21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
I don't have any names, but there are always the soon to be UFA's, the salary dump candidates and maybe even the underachieving young players to look at.
OK, but that is what I mean as far as a player being on the market. You can only trade for those players that other GMs are willing to part with.

BTW, (totally off topic here) how do you get those pictures under your name?

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01-02-2004, 10:52 AM
  #12
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User CP -> Avatar


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01-02-2004, 10:54 AM
  #13
Baun21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoM
User CP -> Avatar

Huh? I'm in my user profile, Don't see anything called User CP. Am I dumb?

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01-02-2004, 11:01 AM
  #14
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Look up at the top of the screen

"User Cp, Calender" etc

Click User CP, then go to the 'Avatar' tab

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01-02-2004, 11:09 AM
  #15
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I personally like this proposal that came up in one of my threads on the Trade boards:

To TOR
Gonchar

To WAS
1st round pick, Colaiacovo, Pilar

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01-02-2004, 11:14 AM
  #16
Baun21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoM
Look up at the top of the screen

"User Cp, Calender" etc

Click User CP, then go to the 'Avatar' tab

Found it (I'm not dumb, I'm not dumb)

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01-02-2004, 11:20 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
I personally like this proposal that came up in one of my threads on the Trade boards:

To TOR
Gonchar

To WAS
1st round pick, Colaiacovo, Pilar

Yikes, giving up way too much there. Pilar wil be a top 4 defenseman in this league. You are basically giving up 2 1sts and a 2nd for Gonchar. That's too much. Especially when you can lose him in a year or two. BTW, does anyone know who gonchar's agent is? If it's Gandler, it would be questionable as to whether the Leafs would deal for him.

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01-02-2004, 11:25 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baun21
Yikes, giving up way too much there. Pilar wil be a top 4 defenseman in this league. You are basically giving up 2 1sts and a 2nd for Gonchar. That's too much. Especially when you can lose him in a year or two. BTW, does anyone know who gonchar's agent is? If it's Gandler, it would be questionable as to whether the Leafs would deal for him.
Just thought I'd let you know, I'm in the "Screw the future, we want Stanley" side of the bandwagon.

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01-02-2004, 12:06 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Just thought I'd let you know, I'm in the "Screw the future, we want Stanley" side of the bandwagon.

WELL YOU'RE WRONG


Just playin

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01-02-2004, 12:07 PM
  #20
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In all seriousness, regardless of your bandwagon, that's too much, Pilar has been good, Carlo will be soon...it's just....not worth it, for now or later.

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01-02-2004, 12:21 PM
  #21
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Just want to add a few thoughts.

Coming into the season, some people were waiving their white-flags, ready to throw the season away. Most, were in agreeance, that the Leafs need to ADD defencemen. Specailly with Svehla gone.

Well, the current group of D, have played better then most peoples expectation's. Thus the need to add defencemen, has been upgraded to just a solid defenceman. Which, I agree with. Top-3, if possible.

Granted, adding Gonchar would, be just that, solid. But this should not come at the expense, of sending away a solid Defenceman (imo), in Kaberle.

It is to early to give up this on this guy ... just last year, he was uuntouchable. Yes, his offence is not all that, but that will come with time.

Trading him off, would be a side-step move.

Yes, you added Gonchar, but you gave away Kaberle. Bringing you back to square-one. The need to ADD (without subtracting, from the current roster) a top-3 defenceman.

I just think people just want a trade, for the excitment, it just seems like that. Either that or they are really unconfident with this core heading into the playoff's.

Leaf have proved, last month, that is takes whole team effort, to win game's. Which means the forwards coming back and and serving their time in the trenches.

That is how this team should play, and if they do, imo, Leafs would be sucessful and not need a big-name defenceman.
(Just Yushkie)


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01-02-2004, 12:38 PM
  #22
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Well said

Glad to see I'm not the only one unhappy about Yushkie leaving, even though it was a couple years ago

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01-02-2004, 01:12 PM
  #23
GD|eNSo
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Let's Compare Stats

Alright folk's, lets crunch the numbers. The following are the stats for both players, first six NHL seasons:

Tomas Kaberle:
TSN Stats

2003-04 34 01 10 11 +06 12 040 2.50
2002-03 82 11 36 47 +20 30 119 9.24
2001-02 69 10 29 39 +05 02 085 11.76
2000-01 82 06 39 45 +10 24 096 6.25
1999-00 82 07 33 40 +03 24 082 8.54
1998-99 57 04 18 22 +03 12 071 5.63

Total
Games: 406 | Goals: 39 | Assists: 165 | Points: 204 | +/-: 47 | PIMS: 104 | Shots: 493

+PRO: Possesses tremendous hockey smarts and the ability to find his teammates on the ice. A swift skater, he can wheel with the puck and loves to join the attack. Has an accurate shot.

-CON: Still makes mistakes by pinching in when he shouldn't. Needs to add strength to better handle some of the bigger forwards in the league.


Sergei Gonchar
TSN Stats

1999-00 73 18 36 54 +26 52 181 09.94
1998-99 53 21 10 31 +01 57 180 11.67
1997-98 72 05 16 21 +02 66 134 03.73
1996-97 57 13 17 30 -11 36 129 10.08
1995-96 78 15 26 41 +25 60 139 10.79
1994-95 31 02 05 07 +04 22 038 05.26

Total
Games: 364 | Goals: 73 | Assists: 110 | Points: 184 | +/-: 47 | PIMs: 586 | Shots: 801

+PRO: Has size, speed and a wicked shot from the point. Makes crisp passes to get out of the defensive zone or lugs the puck up ice with speed. Is a constant menace on offense.

-CON: Tends to get caught in the offensive zone and generally makes mistakes in his own end. Doesn't use his big body nearly enough.

-------------------------------

So there you go. The first six year's of both player's.
Now tell me, is Kaberle, really that bad of an offensive player?

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01-02-2004, 01:13 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baun21
This Gonchar is the 5th best defenseman in the league behind Lidstrom, Pronger, Blake, and Jovo
Opinions?
There are more than 4 defencemen I'd take before Gonchar on my team. Foote, Redden, Chara, Hatcher off the top of my head...

 
Old
01-02-2004, 01:33 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
I personally like this proposal that came up in one of my threads on the Trade boards:

To TOR
Gonchar

To WAS
1st round pick, Colaiacovo, Pilar
I would not do that deal at all, I want Gonchar but I think we could get him without giving that much.
Tor
Gonchar

Wash
Hedin, Wellwood, 2nd round pick

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