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Old
07-26-2007, 07:48 PM
  #1
Bird Law
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Al Montoya

Does anyone else think he's become incredibly, incredibly underrated around here? I was just perusing through the prospects board and theres a thread with a few people bashing him pretty hard.

Putting guys like Schneider and others above him who have proved only half as much as him at the pro level (Schneider hasn't even proven ANYTHING at the pro level).

Even on our own boards do I think he's become a very underrated prospect.

His potential is outstanding and his natural skill level is incredible. He's had some injury problems and such, but nothing TOO detrimental.

He was an All Star this year, he's won a WJC with USA, etc. The guy's track record is really, really solid -- more so than a lot of other prospects out there.

Frankly, one of the reasons I can think of for him being underrated is because he was drafted a few years ago AND because he's a Rangers prospect. Nothing else comes to mind for me.

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Old
07-26-2007, 07:54 PM
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While he has terrific potential, he is still very inconsistent. And the few times I had the opportunity to watch him he did not impress me. Granted, that's way too small a sample size, but needless to say I wasn't blown away. Gave up a bunch of bad goals each time I saw him.

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07-26-2007, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
While he has terrific potential, he is still very inconsistent. And the few times I had the opportunity to watch him he did not impress me. Granted, that's way too small a sample size, but needless to say I wasn't blown away. Gave up a bunch of bad goals each time I saw him.
He definitely is inconsistent and he needs to work on it. But with a guy like Benoit Allaire working with our team, I can't imagine he won't improve on it.

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07-26-2007, 07:58 PM
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People around here go crazy when a prospect can't step right in, blow away the entire AHL, and then jump right to the NHL and be awesome.

Montoya is young, with lots of potential, but still has plenty to work on. He's about as talented a goalie prospect as you'll find and just needs to keep working. He should be considered one of the best goalie prospects around, but you know how it is...every year brings another guy drafted who everyone think has a higher potential than anyone else.

I think he partly gets ignored around here since Lundqvist came in and stole the show.

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07-26-2007, 08:31 PM
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For the people who watch a lot of pack games, and have been following him closely. Does anyone think his inconsistancy has something to due with him being bored, or frustrated being stuck in Hartford?

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07-26-2007, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedtrials View Post
For the people who watch a lot of pack games, and have been following him closely. Does anyone think his inconsistancy has something to due with him being bored, or frustrated being stuck in Hartford?
Nope, not at all. He is just still a bit inconsistent. If he finds more consistency, he will be in the top 2 goalies easily in the AHL. He's always showing glimpses of it (and technically, stat wise he has been pretty much a top 5 goalie the past 2 years in the AHL)

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07-26-2007, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
People around here go crazy when a prospect can't step right in, blow away the entire AHL, and then jump right to the NHL and be awesome.

Montoya is young, with lots of potential, but still has plenty to work on. He's about as talented a goalie prospect as you'll find and just needs to keep working. He should be considered one of the best goalie prospects around, but you know how it is...every year brings another guy drafted who everyone think has a higher potential than anyone else.

I think he partly gets ignored around here since Lundqvist came in and stole the show.
Definitely. That was the first thing that popped into my head.

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07-26-2007, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Definitely. That was the first thing that popped into my head.
Yeah, as Rangers fans we don't really need to be psyched about his development or potential. We have an awesome young goalie playing in NY right now.

Well, unless you're Kluivert, or whatever his name is

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07-26-2007, 09:42 PM
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people tend to overreact about things, but in montoya's case i think alot of times he becomes an afterthought because we know that unlike staal, pyatt, dubinsky, etc al isn't gonna play for the rangers. its just a question of when he gets dealt and what we get back. and that sometimes comes across as not respecting him. but if we didn't have lundqvist there is no doubt that everyone would be raving about montoya as our top prospect.

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07-26-2007, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Does anyone else think he's become incredibly, incredibly underrated around here?
Actually, just the opposite. I am absolutely stunned there hasn't been more trade rumors or interest in him. With all due respect, he has no future with he Rangers. Al has had two good, albeit inconsistent seasons in the AHL and with his college and international pedigree, I would see him as being the perfect acquisiton for any number of teams rebuilding with young players. Something is wrong. A team like Chicago, Phoenix or Los Angeles would make perfect sense so that he could grow up with all of their other young players. After hearing that Sather was trying to trade him in June (with no takers) methinks he may not be the stellar prospect we have him pegged to be. Considering that he could be snatched as an RFA next summer at a very reasonable price, I fully expect the Rangers to move him sooner than later., The lack of a market would indicate that other teams may a) either be waiting for next summer or b) not have as high an opinion on him as we do.


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07-26-2007, 10:08 PM
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It could be better for him this way. With Lundqvist having the success he's had the first two seasons, there's no rush to get Montoya up to the NHL. If the Rangers had Weekes and he was struggling, then things might be different.

But you guys are right, being set with Lundqvist in net means you don't hear much about Montoya here, but you hear a ton about Staal because we have a need for a top defenseman.

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07-26-2007, 11:12 PM
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Very underrated as of late. The only guys I'd put ahead of him now are Price, Rask and maybe Harding.

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07-27-2007, 01:08 AM
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give him time. weren't there scouts saying that he's the best goalie outside the NHL not too long ago (before Carey Price's crazy Calder Cup run)? he's one year off of being Henke's rookie year age.

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07-27-2007, 01:21 AM
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Montoya doesnt get half the credit he deserves. It almost seems like some want to label him as a bust and get him out of here, without even giving him much of a chance. I really hope to see him start a couple games this season. Give Henke a spook and let him know that he might have to fight to keep his spot.

Also tired of all the wacky trade rumors that involve him in almost any Rangers deal.

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07-27-2007, 01:29 AM
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I've never understood why people are in such a rush to trade this kid.

If Hank ever gets hurt or anything we're all going to be glad Al's down on the farm.

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07-27-2007, 01:33 AM
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Most teams already have a good young goalie prospect(s). So there is probably some reluctance about trading for one who has never played an NHL game. Montoya's chances here are mostly hurt because of Henrik being as good really as any goalie in the world. Barring injury there is no way that Montoya replaces him. His numbers at the AHL level are very very good. He does have consistency problems made worse by too many injuries though many of those injuries have not been very serious. Baranka seems to have the same kind of luck. When they do put a number of good games together--somethng happens. Unless the Rangers can move Montoya for something very good--it is in their best and long term interest to get him some NHL games ASAP. With the cap issues that might not be easy to do but he could shuttle between the Rangers and Wolfpack. Valiquette to me at 30 years old has no real future as an NHL goalie. He is a cheaper option but he doesn't move the team ahead and may just by sitting at the end of an NHL bench stunt the growth and value of a potential starting NHL goalie.

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07-27-2007, 01:47 AM
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As far as I'm concerned, he needs a full year in HFD without injury to give an idea of where he should be. I find all these crazy trade rumors with Montoya in them stupid. No one cares for a middling goalie with a penchant for injury. He's not trade bait at all. At best he's a decent add on to a trade.

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07-27-2007, 02:22 AM
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I have to agree with the thought that it's because of Lundqvist's huge shadow that he's stuck in. First thing that popped into my head as well. I don't really care how much people underrate him, the thing that worries me is that so many of the proposed trades are just some guy taking a look at another team's depth chart, realizing that they are thin at goalie, BOOM trade proposal: Montoya for either that teams trash or that teams star/prospect.
It's as if Al's only potential is trading chip, he's lost any semblance of an actual hockey player, like he's only here to be put in whacky ass trade scenarios.
Hopefully the staff is patient with him and he gets the oppurtunity to fully display what kind of player he is on all levels, and if his trade value goes down because of it, who cares? We have a fine team without whatever Monty is getting us back in a trade, and it will stay that way if we don't trade him.

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07-27-2007, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
He definitely is inconsistent and he needs to work on it. But with a guy like Benoit Allaire working with our team, I can't imagine he won't improve on it.
How inconsistent? he has had 2 very good years in the AHL, he has won a WJC, been an AHL all star and has been top 10 in that league for lots of different stat groups. He had a great Michigan college career and yet he's inconsistent???

Yes, i realise he has got yanked a few times in Hartford (every goalie gets yanked now and again) but please...this guy is 21/22? he is allowed to have the occasional weaker game, and if he was THAT inconsistent and he wouldnt still be with the Rangers. He's rated higher than alot of prospects on HF future watch, that alot of posters here are crying for...

THis guy will be elite and other than maybe, Tukka Rask i think he's the best goalie outside of the NHL. Carey Price is another who is a good guy but Montoya doesnt have to fear this guy.

Montoya is a seriously blue chip prospect and should be given the necessary respect.

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07-27-2007, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Does anyone else think he's become incredibly, incredibly underrated around here? I was just perusing through the prospects board and theres a thread with a few people bashing him pretty hard.

Putting guys like Schneider and others above him who have proved only half as much as him at the pro level (Schneider hasn't even proven ANYTHING at the pro level).

Even on our own boards do I think he's become a very underrated prospect.

His potential is outstanding and his natural skill level is incredible. He's had some injury problems and such, but nothing TOO detrimental.

He was an All Star this year, he's won a WJC with USA, etc. The guy's track record is really, really solid -- more so than a lot of other prospects out there.

Frankly, one of the reasons I can think of for him being underrated is because he was drafted a few years ago AND because he's a Rangers prospect. Nothing else comes to mind for me.
I think we look at Montoya the same way. But its also important to remember that there only is 15 above avg starters in this league. Lets say a goalie in avg got a 15 year career, that means that from every age group, there is a 50% chance of finding one above avg starter, one every other year.

If there is a avg of 2-3 goalies in the first round in a draft year, taken into consideration that late round picks like Lundqvist also is in the mix, there is like 15-20% chance of finding a above avg starter with a 1st round pick.

I look at Montoya who is staying at the same course as he did when we drafted him, he is still IMO a good pick and got very good potential. He haven't in anyway deaviated IMO. Though I do hold Cherepanov and Staal higher then him, I think thoose two is as close to "locks" as you will come. Montoya isn't.

I also agree on that there is a extreme overrating of goalie prospects here at HF, and also among many GM's and org in this league. Look at how much crap JD got for trading Toivonen for Söderberg, it was said that it was unnecessary since STL already had Marek Schwarz. Allot of teams and GM's "feels comfortable" with the depth they got between the pipes. Time after time guys like LeNeavue, Oullette among many many others don't pan out like expected, and not having a good-great starter is a disaster for many teams. Still very few GM's around the league without great starters are loading up with more then one solid goalie prospects, thats bad management, its terrible management.

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07-27-2007, 04:40 AM
  #21
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Alvaro Montoya is a "normal" goalie prospect. He got some substansial flaws as a 20-21 y/o, unlike guys like Lundqvist, Lethonen and Luongo to name a few -- thoose guys are not normal...

Montoya need to correct thoose flaws, and as a goalie -- if ever -- you're never better then you're last game... He needs to prove at every level, time after time, that he can take the pressure and perform when it matters the most. Thats the life of a goalie.

Though its ridiculos not to expect Montoya to have atleast the potential to become a Ray Emry for example. Though it will take time.

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07-27-2007, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Alvaro Montoya is a "normal" goalie prospect. He got some substansial flaws as a 20-21 y/o, unlike guys like Lundqvist, Lethonen and Luongo to name a few -- thoose guys are not normal...

Montoya need to correct thoose flaws, and as a goalie -- if ever -- you're never better then you're last game... He needs to prove at every level, time after time, that he can take the pressure and perform when it matters the most. Thats the life of a goalie.

Though its ridiculos not to expect Montoya to have atleast the potential to become a Ray Emry for example. Though it will take time.
To be honest, i think Montoya is just as talented as Lehtonen.

He has had success at every level he has played at. So he has done what you have said he needs to do. Does a normal goalie prospect become an AHL all star in his first 2 years, be an MVP ata WJC and win gold for America and have a brilliant college career? that is far, far from normal. If you compare the two careers, Montoya has had as much success though through different paths as Lundqvist has had early on (before NHL)

Montoya is alot better than Josh Harding and our patiences with him will either turn him into a very good player for us, or a very good player through a trade.

I think Lundqvist is brilliant, and as a 2 time Vezina nominee has to be up there with the very best steals in drafts in a long time so we are fortunate not to need to rush Montoya but to say Montoya is a 'normal' goalie prospect is ridiculous.

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Old
07-27-2007, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Does anyone else think he's become incredibly, incredibly underrated around here? I was just perusing through the prospects board and theres a thread with a few people bashing him pretty hard.

Putting guys like Schneider and others above him who have proved only half as much as him at the pro level (Schneider hasn't even proven ANYTHING at the pro level).

Even on our own boards do I think he's become a very underrated prospect.

His potential is outstanding and his natural skill level is incredible. He's had some injury problems and such, but nothing TOO detrimental.

He was an All Star this year, he's won a WJC with USA, etc. The guy's track record is really, really solid -- more so than a lot of other prospects out there.

Frankly, one of the reasons I can think of for him being underrated is because he was drafted a few years ago AND because he's a Rangers prospect. Nothing else comes to mind for me.
that's gonna happen every year to one prospect or another.

this is Hockeys Future and all players already drafted are not as good as the ones coming along.

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Old
07-27-2007, 08:05 AM
  #24
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Quick question, does anyone think Cullen being dumped possibly paves the way for Montoya as a back up, i think he'd make better trade bait after a few teams saw him first hand.

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07-27-2007, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight85 View Post
Quick question, does anyone think Cullen being dumped possibly paves the way for Montoya as a back up, i think he'd make better trade bait after a few teams saw him first hand.
thats an excellent point. Is Stephen Valiquettes contract 2 way? i cant imagine they'd just throw him to the wolves on waivers...especially with our lack of pro depth in goal...

If Valiquette was able to be placed in Hartford to share duties with the finn they signed then yes, it is a big possibility.

I suppose two scenarios are tied in to this... If Dubinsky makes team out of camp, the need to spend on a free agent stops and then that cap space for Montoya is there. In an ideal world Montoya would play 10-15 games in the NHL this year though i still think its unlikely.

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