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Old
07-26-2007, 08:16 PM
  #1
ThorntonFan19
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Trade proposal

To SJ: Ott
To Dallas: Rissmiller

Pretty simple you guys get a 6'4 defensive LW who is great on the PK and in the corners, but is very turnover prone. SJ gets a needed gritty bottom six forward.

I was just curious what you guys thought

flame away

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07-26-2007, 08:36 PM
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BigG44
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That's ridiculous.

Steve Ott - 24 years old w/3 years in the NHL (one marred by injury)
Pat Rissmiller - 28 years old w/1 full season & 18 games in another

Why would Dallas trade a 24 year old, fan favorite, for a 28 year old with less experience and less upside?

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07-26-2007, 08:45 PM
  #3
ThorntonFan19
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Sorry, thanks for leting me know

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07-26-2007, 08:58 PM
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BigG44
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You don't have to be sorry about anything. That's just my opinion, and god knows I don't have any insider info on the Stars.

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07-26-2007, 10:57 PM
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txomisc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorntonFan19 View Post
To SJ: Ott
To Dallas: Rissmiller

Pretty simple you guys get a 6'4 defensive LW who is great on the PK and in the corners, but is very turnover prone. SJ gets a needed gritty bottom six forward.

I was just curious what you guys thought

flame away
no thanks, just give us a 5th rounder

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Old
07-27-2007, 01:36 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
no thanks, just give us a 5th rounder
Sounds good to me.

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Old
08-16-2007, 11:59 AM
  #7
misfit
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I'm not a Sharks fan or a Stars fan, but I didn't want to make a new thread when this was pretty close.

How available would a player like Ott be, and what do you think it would take for the Oilers to pry him out of Dallas?

I don't know what the Stars need, but the Oilers have a lot of young, NHL ready defencemen, and not enough spots for them all to play. They also have a number of forward prospects as well.

I know Ott has played some center, but I thought he was a winger, and I'm hoping somebody could clear that up for me. What position does he usually play, and/or where is he at his best?

Thanks in advance.

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08-16-2007, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
I'm not a Sharks fan or a Stars fan, but I didn't want to make a new thread when this was pretty close.

How available would a player like Ott be, and what do you think it would take for the Oilers to pry him out of Dallas?

I don't know what the Stars need, but the Oilers have a lot of young, NHL ready defencemen, and not enough spots for them all to play. They also have a number of forward prospects as well.

I know Ott has played some center, but I thought he was a winger, and I'm hoping somebody could clear that up for me. What position does he usually play, and/or where is he at his best?

Thanks in advance.
IMO not much to take Ott off our hands, we have too many forwards under contract as it is. I would take an forward prospect for him or a lower draft pick. I do not want a defenman for him. Otter is a center, but Dallas is stacked at center so he plays wing also.

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Old
08-16-2007, 01:08 PM
  #9
Kritter471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKE M0DANO View Post
IMO not much to take Ott off our hands, we have too many forwards under contract as it is. I would take an forward prospect for him or a lower draft pick. I do not want a defenman for him. Otter is a center, but Dallas is stacked at center so he plays wing also.
To misfit - it will take more than most think to take Ott off the Stars hands because without him, they don't have a fourth line-center at the moment. Jokinen is penciled in on a top-line wing (mostly because they have no one else to go there) and the Stars use three centers on the third line. So they do have seven centers, but they're all committed somewhere.

I would think a 3rd round pick would get him. But the Stars have very specific needs that are generally more expensive to get. They need, at the NHL level, a top line winger. In the prospect system, they need blue chip forwards. Anything else they have a ton of, so I don't think they'll be trading just to trade.

What they do have are too many NHL-level players under contract. My guess is that Khomitski goes back to MotherRussia and Barch goes down through the waiver wire, but especially at forward, I wouldn't be surprised to see a trade provided Dallas gets something they're looking for in return.

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Old
08-16-2007, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorntonFan19 View Post
To SJ: Ott
To Dallas: Rissmiller

Pretty simple you guys get a 6'4 defensive LW who is great on the PK and in the corners, but is very turnover prone. SJ gets a needed gritty bottom six forward.

I was just curious what you guys thought

flame away
Not ridiculous, just not well thought out.
Ott is also a PKing forward (who doesn't play a lot there cause Dallas really just doesn't need any more) who is decent in the corners and is turnover prone. But he's also gritty and can play center and wing, something the Stars value with all the bouncing around they do with lines.

With the age/experience difference and the fact the Stars gain very little they don't already have with Rissmiller, I doubt they do this one.

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08-16-2007, 02:19 PM
  #11
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IMO any player that could make the Stars roster is an upgrade over Ott. If not that, then I would jump at the chance to get someone to take him off our hands for a 5th round pick.

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08-16-2007, 02:50 PM
  #12
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Ott is worth more than a 5th round pick. Getting a 5th in return for a player is pretty much giving him away. A 3rd round pick is about right for him given his age. The fact that he was a former 1st round pick factors in as well....whether its right that it does or not.

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Old
08-16-2007, 03:12 PM
  #13
txomisc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OttMorrow View Post
Ott is worth more than a 5th round pick. Getting a 5th in return for a player is pretty much giving him away. A 3rd round pick is about right for him given his age. The fact that he was a former 1st round pick factors in as well....whether its right that it does or not.
ott to me still isnt likely to have a spot on the roster other than benchwarmer. You can get just about anyone to sit on the bench, so if you can get value for ott(even a low round pick), I would take it.

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08-16-2007, 05:30 PM
  #14
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Based upon the interest levels I've seen on these boards with regards to Ott, my guess is that there are some GMs who have an interest in Ott around the league. What I would do is use him to enhance a larger trade in trying to get a top 6 forward, rather than just taking a late pick for him and rolling a 50-sided dice to try to get an impact player. We want to salvage what we can with a player like Ott.

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08-16-2007, 07:25 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OttMorrow View Post
Based upon the interest levels I've seen on these boards with regards to Ott, my guess is that there are some GMs who have an interest in Ott around the league. What I would do is use him to enhance a larger trade in trying to get a top 6 forward, rather than just taking a late pick for him and rolling a 50-sided dice to try to get an impact player. We want to salvage what we can with a player like Ott.
Ott is a spare part in my book. He doesn't bring anything to the table that can't be replaced on this team right now. He brings no offense to the table. He is a decent PKer but we have plenty of them and we seemed to do well without him last year. His goonyness can be replaced by Fedoruk/Winchester. He is paid more than he is worth. IMO a 4th round pick would be good for him or send in a package for a top 6 player.

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Old
08-16-2007, 07:38 PM
  #16
Kritter471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
ott to me still isnt likely to have a spot on the roster other than benchwarmer. You can get just about anyone to sit on the bench, so if you can get value for ott(even a low round pick), I would take it.
Ott will play until the Stars get a legitmate winger for that second line. Assuming Jokinen signs, the Stars roster will almost assuredly look like this.

Lehtinen(W)-Modano(C)-Eriksson(W)
Morrow(W)-Ribeiro(C)-Jokinen(C)
Lundqvist(C)-Barnes(C)-Halpern(C)
Hagman(W)-Ott(C)-Miettinen(W)/Winchester(W)/Fedoruk(W)/Barch(W)

I'm almost positive Barch will be sent down via waivers unless something extradorinary happens in camp. The Stars aren't near the cap, so the $300,000 difference in salary doesn't make a difference, and Barch is (as hard as it is) 1/5 the NHL hockey player even Ott is. Plus he's not a center, and if they need Jokinen up on the top lines, they need a center on the fourth line.

That third line is almost set in stone after the success they had last season, and three of the Stars seven centers are tied up in that. And until they get a legitimate top-line winger, the closest they have is Jokinen, so he won't center the fourth line. That leaves you with... Ott.

Now, in a package that gets them a top-line winger, I don't doubt at all that he could be a part of that trade. But until then (and especially if Mr. Jokinen holds out), he's not going anywhere because the Stars need a center for that fourth line.

And before the protest of "But Lessard!" comes, Lessard ain't coming up. If he didn't manage to crack the roster last year with the injuries this team had at forward (and yes, I'm aware he had an injury - I'm also aware he was healthy enough to come up for one game in late winter and never make it back then), he's not going to do it in camp.

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08-16-2007, 08:22 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
Ott will play until the Stars get a legitmate winger for that second line. Assuming Jokinen signs, the Stars roster will almost assuredly look like this.

Lehtinen(W)-Modano(C)-Eriksson(W)
Morrow(W)-Ribeiro(C)-Jokinen(C)
Lundqvist(C)-Barnes(C)-Halpern(C)
Hagman(W)-Ott(C)-Miettinen(W)/Winchester(W)/Fedoruk(W)/Barch(W)

I'm almost positive Barch will be sent down via waivers unless something extradorinary happens in camp. The Stars aren't near the cap, so the $300,000 difference in salary doesn't make a difference, and Barch is (as hard as it is) 1/5 the NHL hockey player even Ott is. Plus he's not a center, and if they need Jokinen up on the top lines, they need a center on the fourth line.

That third line is almost set in stone after the success they had last season, and three of the Stars seven centers are tied up in that. And until they get a legitimate top-line winger, the closest they have is Jokinen, so he won't center the fourth line. That leaves you with... Ott.

Now, in a package that gets them a top-line winger, I don't doubt at all that he could be a part of that trade. But until then (and especially if Mr. Jokinen holds out), he's not going anywhere because the Stars need a center for that fourth line.

And before the protest of "But Lessard!" comes, Lessard ain't coming up. If he didn't manage to crack the roster last year with the injuries this team had at forward (and yes, I'm aware he had an injury - I'm also aware he was healthy enough to come up for one game in late winter and never make it back then), he's not going to do it in camp.
There's no way Ott plays on a regular basis over Winchester.

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08-16-2007, 08:35 PM
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Kritter471
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Winchester is a winger, not a center. You just missed half the point.

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Old
08-16-2007, 08:45 PM
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And before Walzy jumps in with snarky comments about me and Ott (I see you Walzy), the argument isn't predicated on the fact he won't be traded. He very well may be, and it's not necessarily going to be a bad deal. But in order to trade Ott, the Stars need to do one of three things:
1.) Sign Jokinen and a second line winger, and let Jokinen center the fourth line.
2.) Be resigned to breaking up the third line and use one of those guys as a fourth line center.
3.) In the trade or another shortly thereafter, pick up another guy who can play fourth-line center.

As their roster stands right now, however, one of the pure wingers is much more likely to go than Ott is.

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08-16-2007, 10:46 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
Winchester is a winger, not a center. You just missed half the point.
That's an excuse.

Stars depth chart at center:
Modano
Ribeiro
Jokinen
Halpern
Lundqvist
Barnes
Ott

As long as you have enough centers, you pick the 12 best forwards, then deal with the line combos.

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08-16-2007, 10:54 PM
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Kritter471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSteve View Post
That's an excuse.

Stars depth chart at center:
Modano
Ribeiro
Jokinen
Halpern
Lundqvist
Barnes
Ott

As long as you have enough centers, you pick the 12 best forwards, then deal with the line combos.
Halpern-Lundqvist-Barnes is a line, and Jokinen is most likely going to play second-line wing (not that he should, but he's the most likely candidate to play that spot right now).

So again, you've got to have that fourth line center. If you've got someone else in mind to play that second-line wing, then Jokinen can be fourth line center. But to say "they have enough centers" ignores the fact that three centers play on one line and will continue to play on that one line.

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08-16-2007, 11:13 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
Halpern-Lundqvist-Barnes is a line, and Jokinen is most likely going to play second-line wing (not that he should, but he's the most likely candidate to play that spot right now).

So again, you've got to have that fourth line center. If you've got someone else in mind to play that second-line wing, then Jokinen can be fourth line center. But to say "they have enough centers" ignores the fact that three centers play on one line and will continue to play on that one line.
Just because they were a good line in the playoffs doesn't mean they'll play together next season.

Edit: and if you're going to use that logic, well then Jussi played center in the playoffs, who says he won't play center next season? If you don't split up the Lundqvist-Halpern-Barnes line, then you still have Modano, Ribeiro, Jokinen, Halpern down the middle.

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08-16-2007, 11:36 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
Halpern-Lundqvist-Barnes is a line, and Jokinen is most likely going to play second-line wing (not that he should, but he's the most likely candidate to play that spot right now).

So again, you've got to have that fourth line center. If you've got someone else in mind to play that second-line wing, then Jokinen can be fourth line center. But to say "they have enough centers" ignores the fact that three centers play on one line and will continue to play on that one line.
I think its foolish to just toss out that line and say its set in stone. I could see winchester taking the left wing spot with halpern and barnes and lundqvist centering the fourth line. The stars have the luxury of alot of depth but not top end talent so they can basically roll 4 lines. I think we could do quite well if our bottom two lines looked like this:
Winchester-Halpern-Barnes
Hagman-Lundqvist-Miettinen

Youve also got several guys who could come into camp and impress enough to win a top 6 winger spot, and yes lessard is one of them. I think it should be clear to the stars that jokinen is a much better center than winger at this point. He is simply not good from the wall on that side and cannot score well unless he is coming from his off wing.

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Old
08-17-2007, 12:12 AM
  #24
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True, that line is not exactly set in stone. But of all the lines the Stars have, that is the one I think is most likely to remain intact for a long period of time. That line got put together a couple weeks before the playoffs and never split up. It's the closet thing the Stars have had to a grumpy old men line and takes advantage of all three players strengths. I'd be very, very surprised if they broke up that line.

As for Jokinen playing center, he's indeed much more effective there. But he's also the best guy they have to put in that second-line wing spot. Miettinen was a bust there last year, Hagman has never really clicked with either of the top-line centers and no one else has the skill level necessary.

He could play fourth line center, but again, I doubt it. They need his body at that wing spot, and he's your prototypical second-line center - creative and effective given good wingers and decent ice time. He'll get neither on the fourth line and will be lost. He did fine his rookie season as a full-time winger, and if they can get 50ish points of of him there, it's better than anyone else on the roster at the moment would be able to provide.

You guys are awful high on Winchester. I don't know much about him other than Oiler fans weren't too sad to be rid of him. The fact he couldn't crack a bad, injury-riddled Oilers team, to me, means he's a fourth-line winger at best.

Lessard's had his shot, and has done nothing that makes the coaching staff want to keep him up. You can argue about how smart that is until your face turns blue, but the fact they continue to leave him in Iowa when there is every chance for him to make the roster says a lot, to me. There's something there that they're not telling us.

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Old
08-17-2007, 04:24 AM
  #25
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If they kepp the 3rd line, trading Ott doesn't make much sense right now, yes....but i really can seen one of those three going down to center the 4th and Hagman (17-goals scorer *cough* ) coming up to the 3rd.

I'd also be shocked if Winchester has a spot on this team. He'll fight with Barch for the 13th/14th spot and also may end up in Iowa. Fedoruk should be over both guys in the depth chart.

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