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Lowe is actually helping small market teams

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Old
07-27-2007, 04:29 AM
  #26
Laus723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Leverage, yeah right dude. Thats a pretty bold hand to play if I was an RFA. Personally, my least favorite team to ever play in right now would be either Toronto or Anaheim. If either of them offered me almost a 1000% raise to play there, and I accepted it under the tactic that I was going to use them as leverage, it would be the stupidest move ever made in pro sports next to Kariya and wherever he's went/goes. Not only do I risk going to the place I absolutely hate, but I also give up 5 years of my life to it. And no, crying foul and demanding a trade will not work with this contract, because I'm no Chris Pronger.
lol, sounded a lot like "blah, blah, blah...I hate Pronger for leaving!"

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07-27-2007, 04:32 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
If Jacques scores 29G and a GM offers him the contract, then we'll worry about it.

What he is doing, is forcing teams that hoard UFAs every summer (TO, NYR, Det. Col. etc.) to spend more to keep their talented youngsters. That forces them closer to the cap so they can't sign all the UFAs they want. This opens up the UFA market to teams (like Edmonton) that have traditionally had problems signing big name UFAs.
How is Lowe doing this by sending offer sheets to teams like Buffalo and Anaheim? Yeah, real free agent hot beds. The looming threat of an offer sheet on Vanek probably had a hand in Buffalo not re-signing Briere/Drury. So in that respect Edmonton helped out teams like New York and Philly.

Edmonton fans, please don't try to spin this as anything positive. Lowe isn't helping small market teams. He's driving up player salaries and hurting other teams cap infrastructure.

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07-27-2007, 04:41 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Voros19 View Post
How is Lowe doing this by sending offer sheets to teams like Buffalo and Anaheim? Yeah, real free agent hot beds. The looming threat of an offer sheet on Vanek probably had a hand in Buffalo not re-signing Briere/Drury. So in that respect Edmonton helped out teams like New York and Philly.

Edmonton fans, please don't try to spin this as anything positive. Lowe isn't helping small market teams. He's driving up player salaries and hurting other teams cap infrastructure.
Exactly. This doesn't help responsible spending, it makes it all worse. How do teams juggle the vets who've earned more money with the younger guys who they may lose to some GM overpaying them?

It's just begets more irrepsonsible spending.

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07-27-2007, 05:49 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Exactly. This doesn't help responsible spending, it makes it all worse. How do teams juggle the vets who've earned more money with the younger guys who they may lose to some GM overpaying them?

It's just begets more irrepsonsible spending.
Well, it's really not the Oilers problem. They have a far bigger fanbase and are getting TV revune from the CBC, have a new arena coming, and a multi-billionaire looking to buy the team and spend to the cap every year.

The thing is the 90s are over, the novelty of "hockey expansion" has worn off in the US, now the pendeleum is swinging back to Canada, where Canadian teams that have gaurunteed sell-outs night after night can afford to do things that US markets, even with a higher population (but a much smaller hockey fanbase) cannot do.

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07-27-2007, 05:58 AM
  #30
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ok so basically some of you are telling that lowe is hero and he is saviour of league?


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07-27-2007, 06:38 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voros19 View Post
He's driving up player salaries and hurting other teams cap infrastructure.
a) LINKAGE LINKAGE LINKAGE

b) as well he should be.

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07-27-2007, 07:29 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Lowe is insane and Oiler nation is following him right down the toilet. Edmonton is officially the trashbin of the NHL. No one wants to play there and the only way the will sign as a free agent is if you offer a hell of alot more than anyone else. All this does is make NHL parody even worse. Now teams won't even be able to keep their stars for more than three years. Why even have a draft or develope players if some terrible team like the Oilers is gonna steal them away while destroying the cap in the process.
Destroying the cap? Seriously? Have you been paying attention at all?

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07-27-2007, 07:31 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by anybodybutcalgary View Post
Despite how things look Kevin Lowe is actually helping the small market teams out..although he is driving up salaries for RFA's, on the flip side, this will probably result in lower salaries for UFA'a.
No it won't. All this does is make it harder for teams that draft well harder to keep their young core together. It's driving up the price of RFAs and giving players more leverage after they come out of their entry level contracts instead of teams being able to sign them for reasonably cheap. I don't see how this possibly helps a team that has a budget under the cap max and has a young team that's successful. It doesn't help a small market team that drafts well. Lowe didn't do this to help the league and other teams, he did this for the Oilers. He's sending out offer sheets because he's done a mediocre at best job of drafting and the city isn't attractive to UFAs. So can we please stop the Lowe is some kind of great savior for small market teams. The big name UFA's will still get paid. We may see less overpayments of marginal players, but the top UFAs will still get huge deals if the cap keeps going up.

I really hope those people that were talking after the lockout about how great this CBA was for small market teams being able to keep their young cores together are choking on crow right now. Not only is the UFA age lower now, but after this summer RFA contracts have sky rocketed. The owners won't lose money, but GM's are going to have a tougher time keeping young talent. It does make for a more interesting off season though if teams are going to start handing out offer sheets. That's really the only positive about this.

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07-27-2007, 07:32 AM
  #34
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Giving long term deals to players with one good season under their belt HELPS small market teams?

One or two of these bad RFA signings to young players will destroy the salary cap of a team like Columbus or Atlanta who can't/won't go to the max cap number, however it does not hurt teams that can like NYR or Philly who can absorb a couple of bad $4 million/year signings and still add players.

People who think Lowe is doing something revolutionary are being delusional, he lost his teams franchise player quibbling over $500,000...so now the rest of the NHL has to pay for it as he desperately does anything he can to replace Smyth by obsenely overpaying for young talented forwards.

I wonder if the Lowe defenders will show up next year when a flash in the pan player gets a $5 Million dolllar win in arbitration based on the contracts he doled out this offseason.

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07-27-2007, 07:54 AM
  #35
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All of the fan-reaction anger I'm seeing is humorous. I'm likening it to a game of chess where the other GMs are attacking all of the UFA pawns and Kevin Lowe is attacking their well-protected RFA Queens. "But you can't do that otherwise you'll be blacklisted..." This is funny stuff guys. Kevin Lowe is playing the game within the rules. He is trying to make his team better. He is not helping out other teams by doing it. He is forcing teams that go after UFA's first and foremost that they better have some cap space left to deal with their RFA's and if they don't, then those RFA's are free game. All this is doing is widening the number of players available during the off-season. He is also letting all of the new generation of RFA's (that will eventually be UFA's) know that the Oilers are willing to spend money.

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07-27-2007, 08:00 AM
  #36
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When offer sheets become common (and they will), RFA salaries will increase and UFA salaries will decrease.

Overall salary might be slightly higher but not very much so. Of course this is a process that will take a while since we have quite a few long UFA contracts that are in place and offer sheets are not as common as they will become.

If you ask me, $4M/year makes much more sense for a Dustin Penner than a Jason Blake, assuming the length of the contract is 5 years. So I welcome this development.

The losers in all of this will be sexy teams (NYR, Wings, Avalance, Flyers and teams in sunny places etc) and the winners will be most Canadian teams, Carolina, Columbus etc. It is just another way to force parity. And seeing as how the big teams always will be able to spend right up to the cap no matter what it is, it is hard to feel that sorry for them. They still have more financial muscle than others.

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07-27-2007, 08:01 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c4fn8d View Post
Kevin Lowe is playing the game within the rules. He is trying to make his team better. He is not helping out other teams by doing it.
Kevin Lowe can do it, it's in the rules. I really have no problem with teams handing out offer sheets. The point is that he isn't trying to help other small market teams, he's only helping his own team. He shouldn't be praised for helping other small market teams when he's only trying to help his own team. The post by the thread starter made it seem like Lowe is helping the little guys and saving the NHL. He isn't, he's just trying to improve his team and overpaying in the process.

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07-27-2007, 08:01 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by c4fn8d View Post
He is also letting all of the new generation of RFA's (that will eventually be UFA's) know that the Oilers are willing to spend money.
Except when they are on his own team...again this is all cover-up for Oiler fans and NHL players to try and erase the stain of his treatment of Ryan Smyth.

Making all players more expensive does no one any good.

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07-27-2007, 08:03 AM
  #39
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Lowe basically has helped RFA's make a boat load of cash. All these young guys shoud all send Kevin a case of Crystal each.

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07-27-2007, 08:29 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
All this does is make NHL parody even worse.
Oh no. Not parody. Anything but parody.

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07-27-2007, 08:31 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew94 View Post
No, it actually just proves that 1 or 2 guys stopped being gentleman!
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
The chance of this lowering UFA salaries is virtually zero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
While I can see where this could possibly make teams think twice before offering a Gill-like contract, I don't see where it helps to give the younger guys unearned contracts. In other words, it doesn't seem like this would help make teams more responsible in their spending.
Furthermore, what happens to those players when they can't live up to those contracts? People keep bringing up linkage and that's a very tunneled vision thinking.


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Old
07-27-2007, 08:32 AM
  #42
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Actually, because Edmonton does have a lot of young players, it might hurt them in the short term. But it will probably help them in the long term.

If there are loads of teams with good young players and lots of cap space, in a market where RFAs have no leverage, and cap space is equal, a city like Edmonton just won't be able to compete with cities where the weather is gorgeous or the travel is very light. If the money is the same, why wouldn't you choose to live in Tampa or New York? I love Edmonton, but c'mon... if I can make 7 million a year anywhere, I'll pick Phoenix or Anaheim.

But if the price is driven up on RFAs, then cap space is more of a commodity. Players therefore may be more inclined to follow money. And if that's the case, then it's a more level playing field - because there will be years where the Oilers (or Flames or Sens or Sabres or whomever) can offer more money to the top free agents, enough that it's a difference maker.

If Edmonton can compete financially with teams, then it makes perfect sense for them to make financial incentive as much of a factor as possible. Because, let's face it, we can't compete with the Rangers' nightlife, the Leafs' travel, and the Phoenix weather. So you sign the players where you can offer that financial incentive, and you hopefully either get them or you change the market dynamics to something more favorable.

Let's face it, the current dynamics weren't working for the Oilers. And, to be honest, the 'unwritten code', it wasn't really fair to the players either.
Depends on which players. The Players aggregate get a fixed portion of the Cap which is divided among them. Vanek, Penner, others will now get a lottery bonus that they had no right to expect given their experience and production. But that bonus is not coming from Buffalo, Anaheim, the Oilers or any other team. It is picking the pockets of their fellow players who have the experience and production to earn more, but by definition will end up with less.

Luckily by its very definition this has to be rare. You have to use your own picks in doing this. Once you do it you become limited in doing it again. Which is a very good thing. It throws a 'stupidity tax' into your reasonable planning in building a team. You have to plan for GM's who are the result of years of inbreeding to throw just off the wall dumb offers at your RFA's so you pay slightly more early as protection. Anyone who appreciates good GM's and well thought out team building as part of the process should dislike this.


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Old
07-27-2007, 08:34 AM
  #43
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handing out 4 mill + to a mid 40's point producer who's only done it once is never a good thing for anyone unless your name is Penner.

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07-27-2007, 08:52 AM
  #44
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RFA offer sheets are in the rule book!!!!

If a GM wants to pay for a stupid contract, then so be it!!

It is no different then UFA's!!

What this does is take some value away from the draft because players can be poached very early in their career. It also forces GM's to manage their rosters differently (stating the obvious) and lock up their RFA's early and I personally think that it is a good thing. If Lowe does not sign Pitkanen or Stoll by July 1, 2008 and they get poached, then Lowe did a poor job and should be fired!

People complaining about salaries going up.....the money has to go somewhere!! If a team has $45 million to spend they are gonna spend it!! I would rather see Penner get the money then Nylander!!!

If Lowe paying Penner $4.3 million is a "terrible and stupid" thing to do.....then let him do it! Your team should be happy! I like the move.

PS - this has at the very least been an interesting off-season for the Oilers.

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07-27-2007, 08:54 AM
  #45
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Lowe isnt helping anything, hes just being a jackass. He wont be a gm next year anyway. Lowe's last month sorta reminds me of the last days of Hitler, being deep down in his GM bunker shouting "Attack, Attack" and pointing on the map to non existant divis-free agents.

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07-27-2007, 08:59 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Vanek, Penner, others will now get a lottery bonus that they had no right to expect given their experience and production.
This doesn't make any sense because there were at least 2 GM's who thought Vanek was worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Anyone who appreciates good GM's and well thought out team building as part of the process should dislike this.


Sorry, but the checklist for Good GMing and well thought out team building INCLUDES securing your RFA's.

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Old
07-27-2007, 09:01 AM
  #47
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I think that one of the best things about these offer sheets is that it helps educate a lot of fans about the CBA, because let's face it: most of Lowe's critics around here display a very uninformed concept of it.

Salaries escalating. This is the single most common war cry of the critics, but escalating salaries are an impossibility under a cap and escrow system. Impossibility. The trick with the new CBA is laying the single most efficient puzzle under the cap; throw too much money at one guy and you won't afford the next one. Way too many people, somehow, seem unable to grasp this fundamental concept of the current CBA.

Lowe simply reckons he'd rather pay a 23-yearold Vanek $7M/year than some 30-yearold UFA with 60 points per season, and that's all there is to it. The only difference is that here he actually has to give up four first-round picks which a lot of people also like to forget about. Same thing now with Dustin Penner, only at a lower salary and thus lesser picks. This is just a different angle from which to attack the problem of the salary cap, and trust me: it won't do squat about the overall salaries. It may very well change the structure of teams' payrolls, but I fail to see how that's an inherently bad thing.

Regarding the whole small-market debate, there is also a pretty loopy logic coming out of most people's mouths. First of all, even if it actually is pretty irrelevant, let's put to rest the myth that the Oilers are small-market because they're not. Claiming they are only adds to the aura of uninformedness (is that even a word? it is now!) that a lot of critics display.

Secondly, if all the bigger markets constantly spend to the cap anyway, how on earth can it hurt the smaller markets? Sure, their RFAs can be poached, but they get picks and it also in turn hampers the bigger markets in going after the UFAs. It's all about how you like to manage your roster. The teams who don't spend to the cap will still have their good players, because the teams who spend to the cap can only spend so many dollars.

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07-27-2007, 09:09 AM
  #48
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Thats a logical argument for a contending GM, the Oilers were a last place club and the year before that an 8th place club with one of the best dmen in the league. They arent close to anything. The offer sheets are stupid, and make no sense. The oilers arent making the playoffs and are just looking to build a average team, instead of a championship club. Being a 8 or 7th seed is not the way to get to the cup.

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07-27-2007, 09:11 AM
  #49
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Lowe is doing what he has to do. He's tryign to show his fanbase that he wants to field and exciting product and a co mpetitive team, you can't blame him for that. He couldnt get any UFA forwards, got a tad screwed by Nylander (though the way i see it, nylander isn't really the a-hole) and this is what it comes to. Its not a d-ck move liek Bobby Clarke signing Kesler to a one year offer sheet....Lowe is committign to these young guys, showing he wants to build his team aroudn them, and there's nothign wrong with that. Plus....what kind of shmuck is not gonna take a 1st 2nd and a 3rd in a LOADED draft for Penner? its not like these guys are being lost for nothing.

lay off big kev, he's just trying to throw a solid team on the ice any way he can.

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07-27-2007, 09:12 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Why even have a draft or develope players if some terrible team like the Oilers is gonna steal them away while destroying the cap in the process.
Because an offer sheet is pretty easy to defend against. Sign your impending RFAs before they hit RFA status or leave enough cap/budget space to match an offer. So far, how many players has Lowe actually stolen? None. If he does get Penner, it'll be because Anaheim decided to dip into the UFA pool fairly heavily. If Anaheim had simply signed Penner before UFAs, they wouldn't be in this situation.

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