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Atd#7-ML Semi-Finals: Penticton Vees vs. Whitby Dunlops

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Old
07-27-2007, 04:16 AM
  #1
VanIslander
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Atd#7-ML Semi-Finals: Penticton Vees vs. Whitby Dunlops

Penticton Vees

coach: Billy Reay
captain: Pit Martin
alternate captains: Don Lever, Rod Seiling
team MVP: Pit Martin

Camille Henry - Thomas Gradin - Alex Kovalev
Don Lever (A) - Pit Martin (C) - Ulf Dahlen
Pierre Mondou - Tim Young - Stu Barnes
Mike Krushelnyski - Gregg Sheppard - Petr Klima
Scott Gomez

Rod Seiling (A) - Doug Bodger
Dmitri Yushkevich - Brian Rafalski
Lyle Odelein - Scott Hannan
Jyrki Lumme

Kelly Hrudey
Reggie Lemelin
Michel Larocque


vs.


Whitby Dunlops

coach: Rudy Pilous
captain: Dan Maloney
alternate captains: Paul Shmyr, Frank Patrick
team MVP: Murray Oliver

Murray Oliver - Fred Stanfield - Andy Hebenton
Danny Lewicki - Mike Walton - Leo Labine
Errol Thompson - Don Raleigh - Bobby Schmautz
Dan Maloney(C) - Red Sullivan - Mush March
Bert Wilson

Glen Harmon - Doug Barkley
Paul Shmyr(A) - Frank Patrick(A)
Leo Reise Sr - Lou Fontinato
Warren Godfrey

Gerry McNeil
Don Simmons
Bert Lindsay

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Old
07-27-2007, 04:16 AM
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The number two seed and 2nd best penalty kill units

PP1: Camille Henry, Thomas Gradin, Ulf Dahlen, Brian Rafalski, Doug Bodger
PP2: Don Lever, Pit Martin, Alex Kovalev, Rod Seiling, Jyrki Lumme

PK1: Mike Krushelnyski, Pierre Mondou, Rod Seiling, Dmitri Yushkevich
PK2: Don Lever, Pit Martin, Doug Bodger, Scott Hannan

vs.

The number five seed

PP1: Murray Oliver, Don Raleigh, Andy Hebenton, Fred Stanfield, Doug Barkley
PP2: Danny Lewicki, Mike Walton, Leo Labine, Bobby Schmautz, Frank Patrick

PK1: Dan Maloney, Red Sullivan, Glen Harmon, Doug Barkley
PK2: Murray Oliver, Mush March, Paull Shmyr, Frank Patrick


Last edited by VanIslander: 07-27-2007 at 04:23 AM.
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07-27-2007, 05:50 AM
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pappyline
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Interesting coaching match up as Reay replaced Pilous as coach of the Hawks. However, Pilous has a Stanley cup & was a winner at every level. Reay never did win a cup despite having a strong line up most years.

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07-27-2007, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by pappyline View Post
Interesting coaching match up as Reay replaced Pilous as coach of the Hawks. However, Pilous has a Stanley cup & was a winner at every level. Reay never did win a cup despite having a strong line up most years.
Afew other thoughts om this series.

first of all I really like Vans team. He really crafted an excellent team yet I still think I can upset the second seed. Penicton has more "recent vintage" players whereas a lot of my players are from the 50's or earlier. This was the golden age of hockey with only 6 teams. If you could hold an NHL job in those days, you were good.

Goaltending: I like Pens 3some but Mcneil is the best in the draft. I also think Simmons is the best backup. He lrd the bruins to 2 cup finals & contributed a couple of wins to the Leafs win in 62. A lot of playoff experience & success on my side.

Defense: I think I have the edge here. Van has a good group but I have a lot ogf guys that can go both ways. Guys like Barkley, patrick & harmon are better than anything Penicton can offer.

Forwatds: Pretty even here. We both have a lot of good two way players.

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07-27-2007, 09:49 PM
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A couple of thoughts on this series:

I think the three keys for Whitby are going to be McNeil, their rushing D and their scoring depth.

McNeil doesn't have as much of an advantage as last series, but he's still does have an advantage. He should be able to keep them in most games.

Patrick and Harmon is a devastating 1-2 punch on the back end. Seiling and Rafalski are good puck movers, but they aren't at the same level as Patrick and Harmon. Combined with Whitby's consistent two-way lines look for them to create a lot off the transition.

I think Whitby has a scoring edge on their second through fourth lines as well. Having a balanced attack will make it difficult to defend.

The three keys for Penticton will be their PK, defensive defensemen and their top-line.

Penticton has a fantastic PK, and it should help them negate some of the edge that I feel that Whitby has on the PP.

Penticton also has a steadier group of defenders. Combined with some solid defensive forwards they will need to try to have a team defensive effort to make up for the advantage Whitby has in net.

I also really like Penticton's top line. Though they may be a little undersized, but they bring a ton of skill. If they can produce against Whitby they'll give the Vees a good chance to win.

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07-29-2007, 07:08 PM
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I've said before that Whitby has one of the best teams in the draft. Still, the Vees have several advantages that should allow us to prevail in a close series.

Size. Whitby's two scoring lines are composed of small, non-confrontational players. The top line has an average size of 5'10", 175 lbs and the second line has an average size of 5'10', 173 lbs. None of those players (aside from Labine) were particularly tough or strong. The Vees' strategy is to use the Seiling/Bodger pair against Whitby's top line and the Odelien/Hannan duo against Whitby's second scoring line. These four defensemen are all large, tough, and steady defensively. Whitby's small forwards will take a considerable beating every time they're on the ice; their ability to withstand a seven-game series is questionable.

Two-way forwards. Whitby has a solid group of two-way forwards (especially Schmautz and Maloney) but the Vees have the advantage here. Pierre Mondou was an excellent backchecker and a good penalty killer, but still broke the 30-goal mark three times. Tim Young a fast skater, a strong physical player, and a great penalty killer; he averaged 70 pts per 82 games with a career-high of 95. Stu Barnes was the top defensive forward on Hasek's Sabres and actually killed more penalties than Mike Peca. The Vees' fourth line also features Mike Krushelnyski (a fast, skilled PKer on the Oilers' dynasty) and Gregg Sheppard (the top PKer on Orr's Bruins, and a constant threat to score a short-handed goal). Despite their admittedly very talented forwards, it will be hard for Whitby to score given the size and toughness of our defenseman, and the strong defensive abilities from our bottom two lines.

Top-end scoring. Camille Henry is arguably the most dominant goal-scorer in the draft who is proven at the NHL level. He finished in the top ten in goal-scoring four times, and was runner up only to Hart-winning Gordie Howe in his best year (1963). During Henry's best years, only Geoffrion, Beliveau, Hull, Moore and Howe scored more GPG. Although Henry is small and non-physical, he will be protected by two larger, strong linemates. Alex Kovalev, another significant scoring threat, is probably more purely talented than any player in the minor league draft (in terms of shooting, stickhandling and skating). Though he's currently a shadow of his former self, Kovalev in his prime was strong, tough to seperate from the pick, and an expert at drawing penalties. His playoff scoring rate (0.84 ppg) is one of the best among modern players. Finally, Pit Martin was a strong two-way centre on the 1970s Blackhawks who posted three straight 75+ pt seasons. Martin's career-high 61 assists allowed Jim Pappin to achieve a career-high 41 goals very late in his career and his 16 pts in 15 playoff games that spring helped the Hawks make it to the Cup finals. Whitby does have a great goalie but it will be difficult for them to turn aside these three dominant scorers playing on two different lines.

Whitby does have a few advantages that we'll need to mitigate.

Goaltending. Gerry McNeil is the top goalie in the draft. However, Kelly Hrudey is in the top three and the gap between the two is small. The two advantages the Vees need to exploit are Hrudey's consistency and McNeil's tendency to give up a bad goal at crucial times.

McNeil was excellent as a starter, but he only held that position for 4 years. Hrudey was a regular NHLer for 12 seasons (plus a Canada Cup appearance). The Vees will be able to rely on Hrudey's consistent, steady level of performance. Furthermore, McNeil gave up two overtime, Cup-winning goals ('51 to Barilko and '54 to Leswick). He retired due to frustration and teammates losing confidence in him. A few bad goals could make McNeil lose focus; Hrudey's consistency and experience should allow him to remain strong even if he does get off to a bad start.

Transition game. Whitby's forwards are fast and the team has two great offensive blueliners. However, the Vees match-up well against teams with an aggressive transition game; we have at least one top defensive blueliner on each pair and many fast, two-way forwards. Our conservative defensemen and steady forwards should allow us to neutralize any threats coming from a Whitby rush.

This is a close series but I think the Vees' advantages will allow us to prevail in 6 or 7 games.

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07-30-2007, 07:42 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider View Post
I've said before that Whitby has one of the best teams in the draft. Still, the Vees have several advantages that should allow us to prevail in a close series.

Size. Whitby's two scoring lines are composed of small, non-confrontational players. The top line has an average size of 5'10", 175 lbs and the second line has an average size of 5'10', 173 lbs. None of those players (aside from Labine) were particularly tough or strong. The Vees' strategy is to use the Seiling/Bodger pair against Whitby's top line and the Odelien/Hannan duo against Whitby's second scoring line. These four defensemen are all large, tough, and steady defensively. Whitby's small forwards will take a considerable beating every time they're on the ice; their ability to withstand a seven-game series is questionable.

Actually when you compare the size of the top 2 lines on each team, there is not that much difference in size, Penicton's 1st line averages 177 lbs & their second comes in at 181. Also if you adjust for era, they would be very close. As far as defense, both Barkley & Fontinato were big for their time. in fact, if you adjust for era the 2 defense line ups probably aren't that different in size. As far as taking a beating, Pens first line will disappear in a hard hitting series.

Two-way forwards. Whitby has a solid group of two-way forwards (especially Schmautz and Maloney) but the Vees have the advantage here. Pierre Mondou was an excellent backchecker and a good penalty killer, but still broke the 30-goal mark three times. Tim Young a fast skater, a strong physical player, and a great penalty killer; he averaged 70 pts per 82 games with a career-high of 95. Stu Barnes was the top defensive forward on Hasek's Sabres and actually killed more penalties than Mike Peca. The Vees' fourth line also features Mike Krushelnyski (a fast, skilled PKer on the Oilers' dynasty) and Gregg Sheppard (the top PKer on Orr's Bruins, and a constant threat to score a short-handed goal). Despite their admittedly very talented forwards, it will be hard for Whitby to score given the size and toughness of our defenseman, and the strong defensive abilities from our bottom two lines.

Pens have a few good scorers & a few good checkers but Whitby's forwards are almost all strong 2 way players. Whitby will roll 4 lines that can both score & check. Pens may have big tough defensmen but the speed & skill of the Whitby forwards will have them running around in their own end.

Top-end scoring. Camille Henry is arguably the most dominant goal-scorer in the draft who is proven at the NHL level. He finished in the top ten in goal-scoring four times, and was runner up only to Hart-winning Gordie Howe in his best year (1963). During Henry's best years, only Geoffrion, Beliveau, Hull, Moore and Howe scored more GPG. Although Henry is small and non-physical, he will be protected by two larger, strong linemates. Alex Kovalev, another significant scoring threat, is probably more purely talented than any player in the minor league draft (in terms of shooting, stickhandling and skating). Though he's currently a shadow of his former self, Kovalev in his prime was strong, tough to seperate from the pick, and an expert at drawing penalties. His playoff scoring rate (0.84 ppg) is one of the best among modern players. Finally, Pit Martin was a strong two-way centre on the 1970s Blackhawks who posted three straight 75+ pt seasons. Martin's career-high 61 assists allowed Jim Pappin to achieve a career-high 41 goals very late in his career and his 16 pts in 15 playoff games that spring helped the Hawks make it to the Cup finals. Whitby does have a great goalie but it will be difficult for them to turn aside these three dominant scorers playing on two different lines.

Henry was a good goal scorer who was very good in close but he was a very one-dimension player & his playoff record is pretty shabby. When the going got tough, The Eel wasn't there. If Kovalev & Gradin are supposed to protect him, henry is in real big trouble. As far as Kovalev, he is very skilled & can be dominant but one never knows if he will show up with his A game.

As I said before, I think the forwards are fairly close but Whitby has a more balanced attack with few weaknesses.


Whitby does have a few advantages that we'll need to mitigate.

Goaltending. Gerry McNeil is the top goalie in the draft. However, Kelly Hrudey is in the top three and the gap between the two is small. The two advantages the Vees need to exploit are Hrudey's consistency and McNeil's tendency to give up a bad goal at crucial times.

Examples? If you are referring to the Barilko goal, that was one helluva shot.

McNeil was excellent as a starter, but he only held that position for 4 years. Hrudey was a regular NHLer for 12 seasons (plus a Canada Cup appearance). The Vees will be able to rely on Hrudey's consistent, steady level of performance. Furthermore, McNeil gave up two overtime, Cup-winning goals ('51 to Barilko and '54 to Leswick). He retired due to frustration and teammates losing confidence in him. A few bad goals could make McNeil lose focus; Hrudey's consistency and experience should allow him to remain strong even if he does get off to a bad start.

I will take 4 years as a starte in the 6 team NHL (without a back up)over 12 years in the 20+ team NHL (with 2 or more goalies sharing the work load). BTW, McNeil lost his job to Plante who many rate as the best of all time.

Transition game. Whitby's forwards are fast and the team has two great offensive blueliners. However, the Vees match-up well against teams with an aggressive transition game; we have at least one top defensive blueliner on each pair and many fast, two-way forwards. Our conservative defensemen and steady forwards should allow us to neutralize any threats coming from a Whitby rush.

I think this is where Whitby will really dominate. Whitby actually has 4 excellent offensive blueliners in Harmon, Barkley, Shmyr & Patrick. Combined with their speedy back-checking forwards they will be coming at Penicton in waves.

This is a close series but I think the Vees' advantages will allow us to prevail in 6 or 7 games.
Agree it will be close but I see Whitby winning a long series.

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Old
08-02-2007, 08:54 PM
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For the second straight series the Whitby Dunlops went to OT in the seventh game, but this time the magic ran out as Lyle Odelein's point shot hit Frank Patrick in front and deflected in to end the series at the 7:42 mark of the second OT period.

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08-02-2007, 09:33 PM
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I knew it would be close and all credit to pappyline for assembling a history-conscious team. That first line of Oliver-Stanfield-Hebenton and goalie McNeil would all have been great on the Vees if you hadn't nabbed them earlier.

The Dunlops could have gone all the way. It's that close in the final four.

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08-02-2007, 11:28 PM
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Wow, I thought Whitby had this one.

Pappy, GBC and I just can't seem to get over the hump.

I'm coming back with a vengance next draft!

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08-02-2007, 11:41 PM
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I'm coming back with a vengance next draft!
next minor league draft

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08-03-2007, 05:36 AM
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Van & hockey o/s, Congrats on your win, You guys put together a fine team. Good luck in the final.

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08-04-2007, 04:14 PM
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Thanks. Pappy, you had a great team. This is probably your most balanced and well-rounded squad so far. No surprise that this series went to 7 games.

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