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07-28-2007, 01:29 AM
  #101
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I don't see what's wrong with making a conference call to discuss the ducks plans in this situation. I like the insight.

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07-28-2007, 02:13 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by TexasShark View Post
So Burke called a Press Conference last thing on a Friday to announce....

"he's not happy with Kevin Lowe and he thinks the offer was too much"

Wow, that's borderline egomaniac behavior.

It doesn't take a genious to figure out offer sheets for fair value don't exist because the players wouldn't sign them, they know they can get a fair deal almost anywhere if their current team won't pay them, so whats the point in burning bridges by upsetting your current employer. It has to be percieved as more than would be fair to make it worth the hastle of going through the process

If he thinks it's too much it's simple take the picks and walk, otherwise **** and smile each time you walk by the cup displayed in your office.
He didn't call a press conference, he took a phone, made statements and answered questions on a subject thats of interest to plenty of people..what a jackass!

He can feel how ever he wants, he knows how the GM game works more than we do, and he's not even pissed at Lowe for making an offer sheet, just the fact he gave a guy whos played 1 year 21 million guaranteed dollars.

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07-28-2007, 02:20 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by dburdick View Post
More from the Burke press conf:

On the negotiations the Ducks have made with Penner
[Assistant General Manager] David McNab does that for us. I believe he had one discussion with Dustin’s agent and he said he wanted to wait for a period of time. I’m not sure the offer we discussed was presented to the agent or not. You can ask the agent that or ask David McNab that. Was the offer close to the one he got? The answer is an unequivocal and instantaneous “no.”

If I ran my company the way he just described here, I wouldn't have a company. So his only key RFA is exposed out there and he might "have had one discussion with him" and "wasn't sure if the offer was presented to him or not". What business do you know of where one of your key employees could walk out the door and you don't know if you have even talked with him or not? This is how you run a business?
lol like Burke is going to divulge that to the public.

double lol to the fact that Burkes 'company' just won the cup and you question his ability to run it.

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07-28-2007, 02:29 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by dburdick View Post
More from the Burke press conf:

On the negotiations the Ducks have made with Penner
[Assistant General Manager] David McNab does that for us. I believe he had one discussion with Dustin’s agent and he said he wanted to wait for a period of time. I’m not sure the offer we discussed was presented to the agent or not. You can ask the agent that or ask David McNab that. Was the offer close to the one he got? The answer is an unequivocal and instantaneous “no.”

If I ran my company the way he just described here, I wouldn't have a company. So his only key RFA is exposed out there and he might "have had one discussion with him" and "wasn't sure if the offer was presented to him or not". What business do you know of where one of your key employees could walk out the door and you don't know if you have even talked with him or not? This is how you run a business?
You don't play poker do you? Burke plays some of his cards close to his chest, and I think he is pulling a bluff with that statement.

If Penner was hanging loose this long without an offer it was because either Burke or Penner wanted it that way. Penner is not an afterthought or something forgotten. Seeing that Burke is not really upset about the idea of an offer makes me think it was Burke's intention to leave him hanging. Either to try and beat him down in price close to camp time or to see what others thought he was worth or try to get some good 2008 draft picks. Lowe may have screwed up the plan by offering such a large amount of money which is what Burke is really pissed about. If Lowe talked to Burke, they could have worked something out but instead Burke finds himself in a position he did not plan on being in.

either way, Burke knows and plans a lot more then he tells the press or us.

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07-28-2007, 03:07 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by dburdick View Post
What does it matter how busy he was or who he delegated the task to. Is the BC HOF more important than taking care of team business? To not even know with certainty what his club's position was with respect to negotiating with the only RFA on the team, and a key one at that, is just irresponsible. There's no other way to look at it. On top of this, he had to know that Penner would be an attractive commodity as he already saw what Edmonton had done with the Vanek offer. I'm sure most GM's after seeing what Edmonton did with Vanek would increase the level of priority and energy to get their RFA's signed. The only takeaway from his press conference that I came away with was Burke trying to deflect blame from himself and put it on KLowe, and instead he revealed himself to be almost completely out of touch with a situation that was entirely predictable and under his control. He obviously is a brilliant hockey GM, but I think he completely screwed up in this case.
Well said and I agree.

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07-28-2007, 09:16 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Zymergist View Post
You don't play poker do you? Burke plays some of his cards close to his chest, and I think he is pulling a bluff with that statement.

If Penner was hanging loose this long without an offer it was because either Burke or Penner wanted it that way. Penner is not an afterthought or something forgotten. Seeing that Burke is not really upset about the idea of an offer makes me think it was Burke's intention to leave him hanging. Either to try and beat him down in price close to camp time or to see what others thought he was worth or try to get some good 2008 draft picks. Lowe may have screwed up the plan by offering such a large amount of money which is what Burke is really pissed about. If Lowe talked to Burke, they could have worked something out but instead Burke finds himself in a position he did not plan on being in.

either way, Burke knows and plans a lot more then he tells the press or us.
Your theory has a few holes. If Burke wanted to see if he could get some picks, wouldn't he want Lowe to offer as much money as possible. For another 300 k a year the compensation package rises significantly. Don't hold your breath for a top ten pick by the way. Take the picks if you don't value Penner that highly, or sign him if you do. End of story.
It is hard to feel sorry for a man with an ego like Burke, but it looks like he is trying to deflect any blame for the situation now; it looks like he craves sympathy.

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07-28-2007, 10:08 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by missinthejets View Post
actually who it really hurts are teams that spend a pile on older UFAs and try and get their young players signed cheap. Burke is pissed off cause he's going to lose a young player because he spent too much on UFAs and thought he'd be able to get Penner on the cheap. Not so anymore and now he's gotta worry about the same thing next year with Getzlaf and Perry.
Actually I think it's just the opposite. A team spending a "pile on older UFAs" would likely by design be a team with few RFAs. Yes they'll pay more for the RFAs, but if the team consists largely of UFAs then wouldn't it now be cheaper to do so? Especially if there's this huge shift of the money from UFA to RFA like some fans claim.

I wonder if there was a chance that Burke would have been happier with a HIGHER offer, so that we got 2 firsts instead and it cripple's Edmonton's cap more. It would be kind of funny.

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07-28-2007, 10:31 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by RallyKiller View Post
lol like Burke is going to divulge that to the public.

double lol to the fact that Burkes 'company' just won the cup and you question his ability to run it.
So because his "company" just won the cup that makes him infallible and beyond criticism for this poorly handled incident? I have all the respect in the world for his accomplishments and track record as a GM, but it doesn't change his inadequate oversight of this situation and his "deer in the headlights" response to it.

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07-28-2007, 10:40 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Zymergist View Post
You don't play poker do you? Burke plays some of his cards close to his chest, and I think he is pulling a bluff with that statement.

If Penner was hanging loose this long without an offer it was because either Burke or Penner wanted it that way. Penner is not an afterthought or something forgotten. Seeing that Burke is not really upset about the idea of an offer makes me think it was Burke's intention to leave him hanging. Either to try and beat him down in price close to camp time or to see what others thought he was worth or try to get some good 2008 draft picks. Lowe may have screwed up the plan by offering such a large amount of money which is what Burke is really pissed about. If Lowe talked to Burke, they could have worked something out but instead Burke finds himself in a position he did not plan on being in.

either way, Burke knows and plans a lot more then he tells the press or us.
Actually I play more BlackJack than Poker. So tell me, what kind of Poker player would try a bluff that as you suggest is aiming to get draft picks out of the deal but is pissed that KLowe offered too much money? The more money KLowe offers, the greater the number of picks Burke would receive. Please enlighten me as I'm not familiar with this kind of poker.

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07-28-2007, 12:22 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by dburdick View Post
Actually I play more BlackJack than Poker. So tell me, what kind of Poker player would try a bluff that as you suggest is aiming to get draft picks out of the deal but is pissed that KLowe offered too much money? The more money KLowe offers, the greater the number of picks Burke would receive. Please enlighten me as I'm not familiar with this kind of poker.
I say he "may" have screwed up what Burke was trying to do, not that he did. I have no idea what he was trying to do, or why. However I do stand by my statement though that the only reason that Penner was hanging out there was because either Burke or Penner himself wanted him that way for a reason neither of them has shared with us. The rest of my post was purely speculation to possible reasons.

From what I have seen of Burke he is not a "fly by the seat of the pants" kind of guy to me. He seems more like I guy who thinks long and hard about a plan, IMO. I feel that in this case, Burke's comments about not knowing what went on in the contract negotiations regarding one of his top 6 forwards was his way of hiding things from the media and the public. It was said in a way that shuts down the media from asking more questions about it. I do not think he is the flunky businessman you alluded to in your post.

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07-28-2007, 12:29 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by RallyKiller View Post
lol like Burke is going to divulge that to the public.

double lol to the fact that Burkes 'company' just won the cup and you question his ability to run it.

Right. People cannot take everything Burke says in a situation like this at face value. Don't doubt for a minute that his responses were calculated and prepared, and there may be questions he flat out won't answer. It's called "spin."

That's how you "run a business." He may have known much more than he let on, or had a hand in it, but he'll deflect the direct question because it's one he does not want to answer. By saying, "You can ask so and so that question" he does not have to.

H.

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07-28-2007, 12:33 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Zymergist View Post
From what I have seen of Burke he is not a "fly by the seat of the pants" kind of guy to me. He seems more like I guy who thinks long and hard about a plan, IMO. I feel that in this case, Burke's comments about not knowing what went on in the contract negotiations regarding one of his top 6 forwards was his way of hiding things from the media and the public. It was said in a way that shuts down the media from asking more questions about it. I do not think he is the flunky businessman you alluded to in your post.
I thought so too until I read the transcript from the news conference. If this was just a bluff on his part, he sure fooled me. With all the venom and vitriol that was peppered throughout his statements, it sounded an awful lot like a guy making excuses and trying to deflect blame on someone else. To reiterate, I don't think he's a "flunky" businessman, I just think he handled this particular situation poorly. If it was a bluff on his part, then I stand corrected and will be first in line to buy his forthcoming book "Top Shelf Poker".

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07-28-2007, 01:20 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by dburdick View Post
I thought so too until I read the transcript from the news conference. If this was just a bluff on his part, he sure fooled me. With all the venom and vitriol that was peppered throughout his statements, it sounded an awful lot like a guy making excuses and trying to deflect blame on someone else. To reiterate, I don't think he's a "flunky" businessman, I just think he handled this particular situation poorly. If it was a bluff on his part, then I stand corrected and will be first in line to buy his forthcoming book "Top Shelf Poker".
Honestly I don't think there was any bluffing going on, I think he was blindsided that someone offered 4.3 million to Penner per season. I honestly don't think he would've gotten 4.3 million on the open market and nor does Burke.

That being said, Penner has the ability to be a great player so it is a tough decision of whether it's worth matching or not. Penner of last year was not worth 4.3 million but Penner 3 years from now might be worth more than 4.3 million. Burke did not want to pay Penner what he might be worth 3 years from now, I think he wanted to pay him what he is worth right now.

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07-28-2007, 01:29 PM
  #114
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This should is not an easy decision for Burke. He either keeps Penner and one of Geztlaf/Perry, or he lets Penner walk and attempts to keep both Getzlaf and Perry with no guarantees that it will happen.

I think he should let Penner walk. If he matches, Lowe will just be back next year with an offer sheet for first Getzlaff and then Perry.

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07-28-2007, 01:43 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by dburdick View Post
So because his "company" just won the cup that makes him infallible and beyond criticism for this poorly handled incident? I have all the respect in the world for his accomplishments and track record as a GM, but it doesn't change his inadequate oversight of this situation and his "deer in the headlights" response to it.
You don't even know how he's handled it, he's not going to give much detail about contract negotations. And since his company is at the top I think he deserves some benefit of the doubt, or do I have to remind everyone how the HF armchair GM's pretty much trashed him for 90 percent of his moves since he took over.

'lolers Burkz is building a goonz squad, how are they gonna score goals'

'Holmqvist for Moen? Moens nothing more than a borderline 4th line fighter!'

And considering the fact the team has very few overpaid players I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt here. You have no idea if it was Penner holding out for more money.

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07-28-2007, 03:13 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
This should is not an easy decision for Burke. He either keeps Penner and one of Geztlaf/Perry, or he lets Penner walk and attempts to keep both Getzlaf and Perry with no guarantees that it will happen.

I think he should let Penner walk. If he matches, Lowe will just be back next year with an offer sheet for first Getzlaff and then Perry.
So can any GM for that matter....

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07-28-2007, 03:59 PM
  #117
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Id rather have Getz, Kunitz, then Perry locked down and playing for the ducks than Penner. Let him walk and fall on his own.

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07-28-2007, 04:01 PM
  #118
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Yea I think he is going to let Penner walk

Thanks for the top 10 pick in a deep draft Edmonton

Oh yea and Pronger


Thanks for the top 10 pick in a deep draft Anaheim

Oh yea and Penner/Smid/Pikanen

Just joking...I have read the Ducks have an internal budget of 44 mill is that true cause even with Neids retiring you still may not have enough room for Penner and also Bobby Ryans Cap hit is almost 2 mill because of bonuses....

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07-28-2007, 04:03 PM
  #119
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Id rather have Getz, Kunitz, then Perry locked down and playing for the ducks than Penner. Let him walk and fall on his own.
Yes, people is forgetting Kunitz is still young. And we might also have Swan, Ryan and MacMillan here in a few years.

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07-28-2007, 04:08 PM
  #120
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Yes, people is forgetting Kunitz is still young. And we might also have Swan, Ryan and MacMillan here in a few years.
Isn't Kunitz a UFA next season....a 28 year old 25+ goal scorer will get 4+ mill on the open market

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07-28-2007, 04:16 PM
  #121
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Isn't Kunitz a UFA next season....a 28 year old 25+ goal scorer will get 4+ mill on the open market
Yes, but we can always make an offer before July 1st. And I'm sure the Ducks could sign him for a little less money than any other team in the league, Anaheim would probably be his first choice.

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07-28-2007, 06:48 PM
  #122
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Actually I think it's just the opposite. A team spending a "pile on older UFAs" would likely by design be a team with few RFAs. Yes they'll pay more for the RFAs, but if the team consists largely of UFAs then wouldn't it now be cheaper to do so? Especially if there's this huge shift of the money from UFA to RFA like some fans claim.

I wonder if there was a chance that Burke would have been happier with a HIGHER offer, so that we got 2 firsts instead and it cripple's Edmonton's cap more. It would be kind of funny.
of course he'd be happier if it'd been higher it makes hi decision infinately easier, but Penner isn't worth that much so no way Lowe offered that for penner.

But in the end, Burke is just pissed cause he was banking on noone going after his RFAs seriously. If he'd had some foresight he woulda saved some money to get the guy signed rather than blowing his wad on UFAs.

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07-28-2007, 07:02 PM
  #123
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Isn't Kunitz a UFA next season....a 28 year old 25+ goal scorer will get 4+ mill on the open market
Exactly, I would say Kunitz is more important to the team than Penner because he scores goals, is a great forechecker and hitter for his size.

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07-28-2007, 07:04 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by missinthejets View Post
of course he'd be happier if it'd been higher it makes hi decision infinately easier, but Penner isn't worth that much so no way Lowe offered that for penner.

But in the end, Burke is just pissed cause he was banking on noone going after his RFAs seriously. If he'd had some foresight he woulda saved some money to get the guy signed rather than blowing his wad on UFAs.
He wasn't banking on it, he's aknowledged that after the Vanek offer sheet he suspected Penner could be a possibility and again he said he's fine with offering offer sheets...just not ones that severely overpay a player and as a result raise every other similar players value.

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07-28-2007, 09:33 PM
  #125
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Well I was thinking the agent would use it as a bargaining chip. He could try to ask for the full 21.5, but this way he builds good will, avoids having to move, gets signed now, and looks like a good guy.

As to the rest of your post, This offer probably screws more than 3 teams. It probably screws all teams that depend on good drafting and building plans. The ones who try to do it the right way, in a fiscally responsible manner and try to maintain success. It also really shortens windows of opportunity for winning.
Actually, it screws GMs who don't think ahead. If the RFA's are finally coming into play, the GM who locks up his players long-term well ahead of their breakout seasons will be excellent. I'll give Holland some credit for that. He totally overpaid for Zetterberg, Kronwall, Datsyuk etc when they signed their contracts, but a few years down the road those deals look pretty good. GMs will have to start doing this to built long-term success instead of a short-term window.

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