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Old
07-28-2007, 11:54 PM
  #126
missinthejets
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Originally Posted by RallyKiller View Post
He wasn't banking on it, he's aknowledged that after the Vanek offer sheet he suspected Penner could be a possibility and again he said he's fine with offering offer sheets...just not ones that severely overpay a player and as a result raise every other similar players value.
yeah well if a GM makes an offer sheet that isn't an overpay he's not gonna get the player cause then the other GM just matches cause it's not an overpayment right?

All it does is it forces GMs to think harder about which players they want to commit to. Is it riskier? sure, does it make a GMs job harder? you bet, Is it something the oilers have been forced to do by UFAs rejecting them? absolutely.

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07-29-2007, 12:00 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by missinthejets View Post
yeah well if a GM makes an offer sheet that isn't an overpay he's not gonna get the player cause then the other GM just matches cause it's not an overpayment right?

All it does is it forces GMs to think harder about which players they want to commit to. Is it riskier? sure, does it make a GMs job harder? you bet, Is it something the oilers have been forced to do by UFAs rejecting them? absolutely.
Whenever you feel you're "forced" to do something, mistakes tend to happen. And frankly, I think $4+ mil per for Penner at this stage of his career is a mistake. I really hope Burke passes. Lowe wants to put $10 mil on Souray and Penner, let him.

Honestly, forget the goal totals for a second, does ANYONE who watched the Ducks regularly actually think Penner was our 2nd most dangerous goal scorer last year?

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07-29-2007, 01:03 PM
  #128
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I really hope he passes also. Signing Getzlaf and Perry next season is far more important.

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07-29-2007, 01:51 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by admiral_CB View Post
Honestly I don't think there was any bluffing going on, I think he was blindsided that someone offered 4.3 million to Penner per season. I honestly don't think he would've gotten 4.3 million on the open market and nor does Burke.

That being said, Penner has the ability to be a great player so it is a tough decision of whether it's worth matching or not. Penner of last year was not worth 4.3 million but Penner 3 years from now might be worth more than 4.3 million. Burke did not want to pay Penner what he might be worth 3 years from now, I think he wanted to pay him what he is worth right now.
I agree. I think it's more probable that he was blindsided versus bluffing. I think it's become a lose-lose situation. Hindsight is always 20-20, but I think Burke is probably kicking himself for signing Bertuzzi. He might be able to dump Bertuzzi in a package with Bryzgalov to a team like Phoenix or even Tampa Bay and then have the ability to match the Penner offer. But even if he matches, he faces a big challenge to get Getz and Perry signed.

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07-29-2007, 02:12 PM
  #130
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Bertuzzi has nothing to do with Penner, Bertuzzi is Selanne's replacement. If Teemu comes back (I doubt it), Bertuzzi is just an addition, he's not Penner's replacement.

It never ceases to amaze me how many poorly informed people are saying Burke gave too much to Bertuzzi. 4M to a guy who scored 71 points (along with 120PIM) before his injury. I mean if Cory freaking Sarich is getting over 3M and Hamrlik what 5,5M per year? When it comes to UFA signings, Bertuzzi is very reasonably priced. And his role as of right now is to replace Selanne's production. Most likely he can't completely cover Selanne's production but most of it.

Hands up, who's going to call Bertuzzi overpriced if he scores ~70-80p next season? I know I won't.

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07-29-2007, 02:38 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Bertuzzi has nothing to do with Penner, Bertuzzi is Selanne's replacement. If Teemu comes back (I doubt it), Bertuzzi is just an addition, he's not Penner's replacement.

It never ceases to amaze me how many poorly informed people are saying Burke gave too much to Bertuzzi. 4M to a guy who scored 71 points (along with 120PIM) before his injury. I mean if Cory freaking Sarich is getting over 3M and Hamrlik what 5,5M per year? When it comes to UFA signings, Bertuzzi is very reasonably priced. And his role as of right now is to replace Selanne's production. Most likely he can't completely cover Selanne's production but most of it.

Hands up, who's going to call Bertuzzi overpriced if he scores ~70-80p next season? I know I won't.
Well put and I totaly agree.

No one knows Bertuzzi like Burke. We gave Teemu a chance and he paid off ten fold. If Burke believes that he will regain his agression and dominate again then I will suppport them both all the way.

Thats was Berts REAL problem. After the Moore incident he lost his edge, his agression was gone. Burke can get that back...because enough time has passed and Todd WANTS it back. He will be excellent next season.

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07-29-2007, 02:49 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
Lowe wants to put $10 mil on Souray and Penner, let him.
Who would you rather have for 10mil. Schnieder & Bertuzzi or Penner & Souray?
I guess it depends on a few different variables. An argument could defienetly be made for both of the above combo's.
If I had a choice, I'd rather pay for potential, rather than age and a chronic back problem but I'm sure many may disagree. Plus I think Souray is way better than Schnieder. He brings a lot more to the table ie. leadership, touhness and I dont think his Defensive abilities are as bad as his +/- may make him look.
I think ultiimately what's going to occur is Burke will end up paying near $15 mill for the trio of Schneider, Bertuzzi and Penner.
I don't think he'll end up letting a player of Penners ilk move on to a conference rival.

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07-29-2007, 03:15 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Who would you rather have for 10mil. Schnieder & Bertuzzi or Penner & Souray?
I guess it depends on a few different variables. An argument could defienetly be made for both of the above combo's.
If I had a choice, I'd rather pay for potential, rather than age and a chronic back problem but I'm sure many may disagree. Plus I think Souray is way better than Schnieder. He brings a lot more to the table ie. leadership, touhness and I dont think his Defensive abilities are as bad as his +/- may make him look.
I think ultiimately what's going to occur is Burke will end up paying near $15 mill for the trio of Schneider, Bertuzzi and Penner.
I don't think he'll end up letting a player of Penners ilk move on to a conference rival.
All things being equal, I'd take Penner & Souray too.

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07-29-2007, 05:47 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by abax44 View Post
All things being equal, I'd take Penner & Souray too.
Schneider is better than Soaray at D. Soaray is a little better on the PP but not a lot.

Penner hasnt been tested enough, and is inconsistant. While Bert has proven that he can be great and run a top line. Bert is older and has back probs though.

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07-29-2007, 05:51 PM
  #135
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I would take Schneider over Souray every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It isn't even close. Schneider is a smooth skating defenseman, with good defensive skills, and powerplay quarterbacking capabilities. Souray is a cast-iron cannon skates. He has a big body, a great shot, but not much between the ears in terms of good decision making capabilities.

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07-29-2007, 06:34 PM
  #136
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Schneider & Bertuzzi are light years ahead of Souray & Penner. Of course that isn't including the costs of grabbing Penner.

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07-29-2007, 06:36 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Who would you rather have for 10mil. Schneider & Bertuzzi or Penner & Souray?
You forgot about the part where one only ties up the money for 2 years, the other for 5, and also where in one case you're giving up 3 draft picks and the other one you're not.

None of these 4 players are like signing a Scott Niedermayer, where you know what you're going to get, no doubts. All of these players come with warts, and with various question marks. That being the case, plus the compensation factor, the smart money goes to Schneid/Bert ... even if they fail miserably next year, you only have to live with their salaries for one more season (and likely can dump their short-term contract to someone else). Fixing a mistake of a big long-term contract, OTOH, is far more difficult.

The only guys who should be getting big money long-term deals now are the legit star players. $10 mil for 5 years on two non-star players is inviting disaster if revenues (and thus the cap) go down, no?

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Old
07-29-2007, 07:37 PM
  #138
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I find it crazy how homerized Oil fans are, wow just wow...

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Old
07-29-2007, 08:00 PM
  #139
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Also don't forget Penner has been having his share of back problems and also is far from aggressive physically. Bertuzzi is a much better player

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07-29-2007, 09:43 PM
  #140
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Also don't forget Penner has been having his share of back problems and also is far from aggressive physically. Bertuzzi is a much better player
Yeah but Bert's back problems were much, much worse. I really will reserve opinion on what he can be for this team until I see what kind of shape he's in during camp. If he actually plays 70+ games he should be great and rack up a lot of points. If last years injury was just the first of continuing ailments than he'll be a huge waste of money. It's a risk no doubt but he could pan out. But he could also flame out. Who knows?

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Old
07-30-2007, 01:14 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Who would you rather have for 10mil. Schnieder & Bertuzzi or Penner & Souray?
I guess it depends on a few different variables. An argument could defienetly be made for both of the above combo's.
If I had a choice, I'd rather pay for potential, rather than age and a chronic back problem but I'm sure many may disagree. Plus I think Souray is way better than Schnieder. He brings a lot more to the table ie. leadership, touhness and I dont think his Defensive abilities are as bad as his +/- may make him look.
I think ultiimately what's going to occur is Burke will end up paying near $15 mill for the trio of Schneider, Bertuzzi and Penner.
I don't think he'll end up letting a player of Penners ilk move on to a conference rival.
Souray has his best season in a contract year..

Schneider has five fifty point seasons in the last six years.

Bertuzzi was a ppg player last year before the injury, and had 71 the year before that.

Penner has played one year and is being paid like an established star. Penner has upside and is a good player but he had many nights where he was invisible, some was him, some was others.

and we only have Bert and Schneider signed for 2 years, Souray and Penner are locked down for five, pretty big difference.

Aside from that Bertuzzi was signed to replace Selanne.

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Old
07-30-2007, 09:31 AM
  #142
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interesting press conference by Burke. He wasn't surprised by the offer sheet (ego) but thought the timing was classless (lashing out). Good to know that things are changing with Burke.


BTW, I am almost completely convinced that Burke did this for the benefit of the owners, He needs additional salary space. It has been widely reported that the team salary number was going to be 43-44 mill this year. There is no way he can keep Penner unless he gets more money from the owners.

This press conference is one of those "us against the world" tirades that he is probably repeating to the owners right now.

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