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Old
01-03-2004, 03:32 PM
  #26
speeds
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Originally Posted by thome_26
It's tougher to trade for real high quality defensmen then it is for scorers. I'd like to see more Dmen picked then we have.
Not sure I'd agree with the first sentence (though I have no empirical evidence to back me up, just guessing), but it's a fair enough opinion that EDM could pick more D in the first round. They certainly do seem to be set on drafting forwards in the 1st, but it could just be random chance that it has continually worked out that way since 94.

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01-03-2004, 03:37 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by speeds
Not sure I'd agree, but it's a fair enough opinion that EDM could pick more D in the first round. They certainly do seem to be set on drafting forwards in the 1st, but it could just be random chance that it has continually worked out that way since 94.

Before Woywitka came over, I would have bet money they'd take a defender. There are several goalies this season, so they could use the Flyer pick on Dubnyk or Montoya or Ellis or whomever.

imo, they'll go forward. From what little I've been able to find in the way of info, one of Lisin, Tukonen, Chipchura and a guy named Adam Pineault seem most likely to be Oilers next summer.

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01-03-2004, 03:39 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by thome_26
It's tougher to trade for real high quality defensmen then it is for scorers. I'd like to see more Dmen picked then we have.
High end is always difficult but positions seem to go in waves. One year there is a shortage of goalies. Two years later you are reading that there is a glut. And it is difficult to predict based upon high end talent in the draft because so many high end flop and so many lower rounds come through. D-men seem to be the big shortage right now but for how long I have no idea.

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01-03-2004, 03:54 PM
  #29
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[QUOTE=lowetide]Since the WJC championships are on, it's a nice time to look ahead at this summer's draft.

The Oilers could end up picking anywhere from about 7-15 depending on the season's second half; there's some interesting players the could/should be available.

Ovechkin, Olesz (the kid Phaneuf hit this morning, lordy Comrie looks like he got out of this division just in time), Malkin the Russian center and Cam Barker are the projected top 4. Here's Redline's top 10 from USA Today:

1. RW Alexander Ovechkin-An HF 10
2. C Evgeni Malkin-6'3, 205 and goes to the net.
3. C Rostaslav Olesz-Skilled C.
4. D Cam Barker-Compared with the top 3 Dmen from last year.
5. G Marek Schwarz-rlr calls him little big man.
6. RW Jakub Sindel-Super sniper
7. LW Wojtek Walski-Imagine Raffi at 6'3.
8. RW Enver Lisin-Two way forward.
9. D Ladislav Smid-Strong 2 way defender.
10. RW Lauri Tukonen-Terrific skater, explosive.

IMO , the Oil already have enough calibre defensemen in the system to target offensive forwards like Sindel or Tukonen. To do so, fails to address one large fact. We already have a ton of good winger prospects and NO, I repeat NO 1st line center. Even Niiminaki who may be our best centerman prospect, may be still two years away. Pending a really big trade that would cost us defensively, our loss of first line center may not be fixed even next year.
It becomes more and more apparent every year that the only
way the Oil is going to find a true first line centre (size, grit ,speed,skill) like that is to develop one thru the draft.
Our draft pick looks to be around 10 this year so draft the best forward
on the hope of turning him into a center.

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Old
01-03-2004, 04:02 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilersRRRock/Kim
IMO , the Oil already have enough calibre defensemen in the system to target offensive forwards like Sindel or Tukonen. To do so, fails to address one large fact. We already have a ton of good winger prospects and NO, I repeat NO 1st line center. Even Niiminaki who may be our best centerman prospect, may be still two years away. Pending a really big trade that would cost us defensively, our loss of first line center may not be fixed even next year.
It becomes more and more apparent every year that the only
way the Oil is going to find a true first line centre (size, grit ,speed,skill) like that is to develop one thru the draft.
Our draft pick looks to be around 10 this year so draft the best forward
on the hope of turning him into a center.
A first line center would be nice.. But what if there's still a guy like Wolski or Tukonen still on the table? You cannot just pass on talent like that regardless of what position they play. This is one of the reasons you do not draft based on team weakness.

Why? You just never know what the team will need 3 years down the line. Rosters change... prior draft picks surprise... trades occur. So to pick a center earlier than necessary isn't the best option. It's always the proverbial BPA and it still holds whether or not the best player is a LW/RW/C/D/G.

There are teams in the league that don't have a bonafide first line center. It is definitely not a detriment to the team if it never gets a player like Joe Thornton, Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, Mike Modano, etc. It's more important the Oilers get high quality players at any position than to just target the center position solely.

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01-03-2004, 04:07 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Before Woywitka came over, I would have bet money they'd take a defender. There are several goalies this season, so they could use the Flyer pick on Dubnyk or Montoya or Ellis or whomever.
I wouldn't have, but simply because of the history. the 2002 draft was probably as heavy in D as the 2004 draft projects (in terms of numbers picked in the first round), and EDM was in at least as big need of help on D then as they are now (or even before the Comrie trade), yet they still went with Niinimaki. I really thought they'd go with Grebeshkov that year, or Babchuk, but didn't wuite go that way.

Quote:
imo, they'll go forward. From what little I've been able to find in the way of info, one of Lisin, Tukonen, Chipchura and a guy named Adam Pineault seem most likely to be Oilers next summer.
The only thing I don't think they'll do is take 2 D or 2 F in the first, if they keep both picks, barring a situation where they take BPA with the first pick and someone they really liked is somehow avail at the 2nd pick. I could see them making an effort to get 1D and 1F, or 1G and 1F. Not sure I'd expect them to pick a G and a D though, that would really surprise me, but again you never know who slips and how EDM has them ranked.

selection will obviously change based on where the first pick is, but also based on how the team does, how the deadline is handled re: trades.

If they end up with 3 seconds like in 2002, or maybe even 4, I could see them doing absolutely anything in the first round (any combinations of players, trade up, trade picks away, trade down and add another 2nd)and then picking somewhat by need in the second round.

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01-03-2004, 07:31 PM
  #32
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Gentlemen...it's Ovechkin. There is no other they should be shooting for. The Oilers need a franchise guy and he is it.

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01-03-2004, 07:37 PM
  #33
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as much as i'd like well im sure we'd all like Ovechkin i can't see how we are going to land the 1st overall draft pick this year.

If the Rangers want they could i suppose offer the Penguins $10m for the 1st overall pick (if the pens get it) and see what happens

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01-03-2004, 07:58 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
as much as i'd like well im sure we'd all like Ovechkin i can't see how we are going to land the 1st overall draft pick this year.

If the Rangers want they could i suppose offer the Penguins $10m for the 1st overall pick (if the pens get it) and see what happens
To Columbus

Smyth and the Oilers 1st

To the Oilers

Ovechkin, Columbus' first 2005 ?

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01-03-2004, 08:02 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
as much as i'd like well im sure we'd all like Ovechkin i can't see how we are going to land the 1st overall draft pick this year.

If the Rangers want they could i suppose offer the Penguins $10m for the 1st overall pick (if the pens get it) and see what happens
The NHL has set a limit of $4 million in any trade. That's why the Kovalev deal included $3,999,999, and I don't think that would be enough to buy their first pick, if they'd even sell it. If Ovechkin lives up to the hype, he would be worth more than that in the long run anyway.

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Old
01-03-2004, 08:12 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOZ
To Columbus

Smyth and the Oilers 1st

To the Oilers

Ovechkin, Columbus' first 2005 ?
Sadly enough, that's not nearly enough to land Ovechkin let alone their 2005 first rounder as well.. Look at the Lindros deal for a reasonable reference point (probably a little less than that)..

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01-03-2004, 08:36 PM
  #37
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<font face=verdana size=1><b>This is the order i would want in order...


1. <u>Alexander Ovechkin</u>

Obvious Reasons. The guy is the second comming of Pavel Bure/Ilya Kovalchuk. The kid is one of those players you would pay to see.


2. <u>Cam Barker</u>

I know that there's no way in hell that the Oilers have a chance on Ovechkin. So i pray that they get Cam Barker if the have the chance. He's a cornerstone defenseman that you would build your team around. Look for Florida to pick him as a partner to Krajicek or Boumeester.


3. <u>Rostislav Olesz </u>

The guy is very skilled. He could be the skilled center we need down the middle to alleviate the loss of Mike Comrie. He would be a good pickup but something about him screams bust!


4. <u>Robbie Shremph</u>

I don't care if he has attitude problem or not. He's this year's Patrick O'sulivan and if the Oilers make another mistake and pass up on another player of this calibre because he not "nice" enough i will puke. Fleury had attitude problems and was an amazing player, Lindros didnt have the best attitude but was still the best player in the NHL during his prime.


5. <u>Wojtec Walski</u>

It might not be as logical to draft him since we have a log jam of prospect trying out for left wing but we can always use a player of his feistiness.


6. <u>Jakub Sindel</u>

Think...this kid's upside is Peter Bondra. His downside is Radek Dvorak....what's not to like. He'll be a future 1st/2nd liner in the future for sure.


7. <u> Lauri Tukonen</u>

This guy is Oiler material and I would bet a lot of money that the Oilers are after this kid. He screams Oiler player. I'm not too sure about his upside. I'd take Sindel over him.




I already gave up and i know the Oilers are picking top 10 this year. They wont make the playoffs this year but i hope them luck next year. If i wanted any player in 2004 to be drafted by the Oil, i'd say i want <u>Cam Barker</u>. WE could pair him up with Brewer in the future to make an amazing first paring. Then have Lynch with Semenov and we're set. </b>

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01-03-2004, 09:00 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetballer03
*snip*
I already gave up and i know the Oilers are picking top 10 this year. They wont make the playoffs this year but i hope them luck next year. If i wanted any player in 2004 to be drafted by the Oil, i'd say i want <u>Cam Barker</u>. WE could pair him up with Brewer in the future to make an amazing first paring. Then have Lynch with Semenov and we're set. </b>
What kind of fan are you giving up when the Oilers haven't even played 41 games yet. I'll never give up on the playoffs. This team still has a chance to make the playoffs.

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Old
01-04-2004, 05:10 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Hemsky83
What kind of fan are you giving up when the Oilers haven't even played 41 games yet. I'll never give up on the playoffs. This team still has a chance to make the playoffs.

Probably a realistic one. When you're chasing Nashville and they beat New Jersey, putting you 7 points out of a playoff spot, math is no longer your friend.

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01-04-2004, 07:46 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by oilerrick
After watching Al Montoya, I'd be willing to put my money on him.
Yes, apparently Good Al showed up for the WJCs. He's been just okay this year for Michigan but last year in the playoffs he had two outstanding, outstanding games against Maine and Colorado College... followed by the Minnesota game where he let in a soft one in OT.

He's inconsistent right now. But he moves really well, both in the crease and puckhandling behind the net. He's not always square to the puck and sometimes gives up bad rebounds. But he does have an awful, awful lot of talent. And that Turco-like puckhandling will always be there for him.

I might use the Philly pick on him if he was there. If JDD doesn't pan out, and there's always that chance with goalies, the Oilers would be in trouble. I don't know if I'd use a pick around 10-15 on him.

I made a prediction earlier that one of two things would happen with Al at the WJC: he would either play really well or really badly and then subsequently be taken too high or too low in the draft. Looks like the former.

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01-04-2004, 09:17 AM
  #41
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the two guys i would like to see the oilers have a crack at are barker and tukonen. barker because you can never have enough defensemen and i like finnish players. for the most part the finns we draft or acquire in trade play very well in edmonton, i hope rita will join that list and not become an aberration. and tukonen fits the bill of a sniper which this team so desperately needs.
hopefully by the second round a good goaltender is still available, i am a bit worried about our goaltending depth.

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01-04-2004, 09:30 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkymoses
Yes, apparently Good Al showed up for the WJCs. He's been just okay this year for Michigan but last year in the playoffs he had two outstanding, outstanding games against Maine and Colorado College... followed by the Minnesota game where he let in a soft one in OT.

He's inconsistent right now. But he moves really well, both in the crease and puckhandling behind the net. He's not always square to the puck and sometimes gives up bad rebounds. But he does have an awful, awful lot of talent. And that Turco-like puckhandling will always be there for him.

I might use the Philly pick on him if he was there. If JDD doesn't pan out, and there's always that chance with goalies, the Oilers would be in trouble. I don't know if I'd use a pick around 10-15 on him.

I made a prediction earlier that one of two things would happen with Al at the WJC: he would either play really well or really badly and then subsequently be taken too high or too low in the draft. Looks like the former.
The Philly pick would be the smart pick to use on a goalie like Montoya. I think we really have to draft a franchise d-man, like Barker, or an impact offensive player with our pick.

Like someone said, I'm not ready to give up on this season because it isn't even half over, but it sure is looking more and more like our first top ten pick in years.

I think the worst scenario for the Oilers would be to just barely miss the play-offs. If that occurs we don't get the extra revenue from play-off gate receipts and we don't get a quality pick. It would definitely be a lose-lose scenario. That is why I beilive that if Oiler management see's that we're not about to make a serious play-off push with about a month or so to go that guys like Smith, Salo, Laraque, and maybe even Smyth could be on their way out. I sure hope that Smyth stays around.

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01-04-2004, 10:28 AM
  #43
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Is there a link to a scouting profile on Tukonen? I trust you guys and your reads but it would be nice to get a solid in depth look at the guy's prospects. Speed is always at a premium but when you look at a guy like Steve Kelly I'd have to worry some. What club does he play for in Finland anyways, and is it the top level or one of the U-20 teams?

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01-04-2004, 10:38 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizuka
Is there a link to a scouting profile on Tukonen? I trust you guys and your reads but it would be nice to get a solid in depth look at the guy's prospects. Speed is always at a premium but when you look at a guy like Steve Kelly I'd have to worry some. What club does he play for in Finland anyways, and is it the top level or one of the U-20 teams?

He plays for Espoo in the Finnish League. I saw him play in the US/Fin SF (yesterday? was that yesterday? God, it's a blur) and he made a strong move to the net, and the Dman got a penalty on the play. Someone on the prospects board said he had good speed and is hard to knock off the puck, which is basically what that played indicated, but who knows?

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01-04-2004, 11:06 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizuka
Is there a link to a scouting profile on Tukonen? I trust you guys and your reads but it would be nice to get a solid in depth look at the guy's prospects. Speed is always at a premium but when you look at a guy like Steve Kelly I'd have to worry some. What club does he play for in Finland anyways, and is it the top level or one of the U-20 teams?
Tukonen has been compared to certain mr. Selänne since his early teens and after seeing him play in the WJC, that comparison isn't too far off. He couldn't really produce yet and I haven't seen enough of his shot to tell whether he actually has sniper potential, but he's lightning fast, excellent first two steps, has great hands-vision -combination for a Finn and doesn't mind taking the punishment when crashing the net. He was nowhere near the level of the ovechkins, oleszes and montoyas of the tournament, but he's almost a year younger than Ovechkin, for example, so he still has time...

He's played his whole career so far in a pure offensive role which explains his not so impressive defensive play. There has been reports about some sort of attitude problems/problems with coaches in previous years, but to me he seems like a good guy. Humble, but aware of his talent.

He started the season with the U-20 team of Blues Espoo, but got promoted to the senior team after scoring ten goals and assisting six in just twelve games. He's obviously not a top end player in SM-liiga yet, but he did manage to score two goals in his seven first games. After that he has been able to assist one goal.

I've only seen one game from Montoya so far and he was superb. I'll probably have more of an opinion of him after seeing if he's able to maintain his level against the superior offense of Team Canada.

Talking about offensive defensemen, Sami Lepistö has had an unbeliavable tournament. He's been clearly the #1 defenseman of Team Finland and seems to be taking another huge step during this season. He wasn't expected to make the senior team of Jokerit this year and got his chance early on partly due to an injury to Mikko Kalteva. He impressed everybody with his confident play and has been a regular in the lineup all season long. He has been watched closely by some NHL organizations already earlier this year, but after the WJC, he's on everybody's lists. Somehow he reminds of Janne Niinimaa, but he's probably even more talented offensively. He still lacks strength, but never backs off, no matter who he's facing.

I don't know what games Mizral has been watching, but Olesz has been probably the best player of the Czech team in each of the games I've seen. He's a complete package, there's nothing missing from his game (well he probably doesn't fight much and he has to learn to keep his head up ;).


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01-04-2004, 11:48 AM
  #46
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Thanks eh. Much appreciated.

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