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Rangers re-sign Marcel Hossa-1 year/$780,000

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Old
07-31-2007, 06:54 PM
  #76
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Cool. That's a good number, Hopefully Avery gets about 2, and we'll be all set.

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07-31-2007, 07:22 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
I don't subscribe to those who portray him as doing a lot despite his statistics.
By statistics, do you mean the lack thereof or some kind of gaudy numbers? I would think that it would be the former as opposed to the latter.
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He's a third/fourth line winger who had a nice run, but it was after a streak of 5 points in 49 games and on a player who at 26 has yet to score more than 10 goals in a season.
I do not know if he is even a 3rd line player. To be a 3rd line player, one needs to have the ability to put the puck into the net to be able to score around 15 goals per year. Aside from a set of 11 games with Jagr, Hossa has not demonstrated such an ability. As a matter of fact, his career states that such a stretch was an aberration.

I agree with your sentiments on him. Reading some of the posts around here, one would think that some kind of a young hulk has been playing with the name "Hossa" on his back.

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07-31-2007, 08:12 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Bruno Ranger View Post
Only a good thing in my eyes.

Hossa is one of the people on these boards that are not favored by the majority, I think as was Isbister. These are the people who are extremely underrated who may not dominate the point department but dominate the mindset of the players who are actually watching the game.

Marcel Hossa,
Brad Isbister
Jed Ortmeyer. 3 quick players that came to mind that are EXTREMELY underrated.
Wow, that explains alot. Here I thought it was Hossa who disappeared for 20 games at a time without a point to show in that stretch when really it was me who wasn't watching hockey for a month and a half.

Points aren't everything but "extremely underrated" and "20 game pointless streak" aren't really two qualities that usually go hand in hand. But he's the lone exception. Along with Isbister. And Krog.

Honestly, this signing is of the "ho-hum" variety but the enthusiasm of the Hossa-BFF-Club can only be met with some kind of backlash. As of now we have a 15-20 game collection of success and promise, a 30 game collection of nothing really great and nothing really bad, and a 100 game collection in which he did less for the team than the 300 lb guy in the 400s. Not to say he really hurt the team, but you didn't even notice he was playing most nights.

This has to be his make or break season, maybe the year after that. Beyond that he's going to have to bribe Jagr to stay in the NHL to make anything of his career.

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07-31-2007, 08:16 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
I'm tired of Hossa Haters. Its getting a little old. The guy was giving top line minutes and he played great and up to his potential. You can say all you want about how its because he was playing with Jagr but IMO the only benefit he got out of playing with Jagr was motivation. The guy did a lot of it on his own. He started grinding it out by standing in front of the net for the "garbage goals", deflecting pucks in the net, went into the corners to do the dirty work instead of being lazy, and he threw his weight around. I'm happy we re-signed him

AMEN!!!! Finally a voice of reason in the wilderness!

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07-31-2007, 08:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Not sure I follow. I don't love Hossa, I really have no feeling either way towards the guy. But I can recognize he's a great penalty killer, strong on the boards and a terrific back checker. Saying he "sucks" ignores his positive characteristics. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, certainly- and if him "sucking" is your opinion, so be it- but at the same time there's nothing wrong with pointing out the fact that the guy possesses many abilities worth mentioning.

But thanks for trying to put words in my mouth .
Remember this....ALWAYS remember this:

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07-31-2007, 09:03 PM
  #81
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I actually like this signing. we bring back an excellent role player at just the right cost.

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07-31-2007, 09:53 PM
  #82
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Yay.

People point out that he only did well during a 15 game stretch... but the fact of the matter is that it was his LAST 15 games. And then he came back early from the injury for the POs (if it was Avery who had done that - and I like Avery - there would be people nominating him for sainthood) and played well for a game and a half (including a goal) before being hurt again. I believe he'll pick right back up where he left off - certainly I think he deserves the chance.

However, if I'm wrong and he fails, drop him back down and he's a good 3rd liner or an excellent 4th liner. In scenario 1 he is VASTLY underpaid, in scenario 2 he's a bargain and in scenario 3 he's still not overpaid.

You may not be a fan, but how can anyone fault this signing at this salary?

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Old
07-31-2007, 10:02 PM
  #83
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780k? Sure.

He's not worth much more.

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07-31-2007, 10:02 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by rodmunch View Post
So a guy who is a good penalty killer and good role player sucks?
We have enough role players & PK's we need guys that are going to bury the puck in the back of the net on a regular basis, I'm really hoping Hossa is traded.

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07-31-2007, 10:07 PM
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Yeah? All on his own? Then how do you even start to explain the fact that his production resembles that of Jed Ortmeyer, when playing anywhere besides with Jagr? Further, "all on his own" is for a span of 11 games. What happened to all of the other games in his career?

$850,000 for a guy who, aside from an 11 game stretch, has not been able to distinguish himself from an Ortmeyer?

Nevermind.....can't get into this debate yet again.
EXACTLY! Slats let Orts go, we knew exactly what we had with him, Hossa is a fly by night flash in the pan player, I will agree he can turn it on for strecths, but its an 82 game season, not a stretch of hames here & there, if Hossa was on a 2 way contract I could live with the signing, but to have him take away aspot from somebody else because Hossa could have a good game here & there is just wrong.

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07-31-2007, 10:14 PM
  #86
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It amazing how split the board is on Hossa, its like 50/50.
Just to be clear, I want him to be successful, his scuess should help us win, HOWEVER, I think we could win without him & have other players in our system that can fill his role, if not exceed it.

Now, that being said, I hope I'm wrong about my feelings for him, but fter watching him for two seasons I dont think I am, Either way, most likely, This will be the season Hossa distingushes himself as a bigtime top 6 player or a role playing, part time bottom 6 player.

I've said my peace.

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07-31-2007, 11:22 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
It amazing how split the board is on Hossa, its like 50/50.
Just to be clear, I want him to be successful, his scuess should help us win, HOWEVER, I think we could win without him & have other players in our system that can fill his role, if not exceed it.

Now, that being said, I hope I'm wrong about my feelings for him, but fter watching him for two seasons I dont think I am, Either way, most likely, This will be the season Hossa distingushes himself as a bigtime top 6 player or a role playing, part time bottom 6 player.

I've said my peace.

Judging from this thread, its more like 90/10 in favor of the signing.

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08-01-2007, 04:11 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Judging from this thread, its more like 90/10 in favor of the signing.
Im in favour beacuse the money is just right, its only 1 year which gives him the chance to earn another yr and/or bring a prospect up next year. Hossa IMO tho is only a depth player and shouldnt get 19mins on Jagr's line every night.

Good depth player but no more, but at that price its a good piece to have.

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08-01-2007, 07:33 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
Im in favour beacuse the money is just right, its only 1 year which gives him the chance to earn another yr and/or bring a prospect up next year. Hossa IMO tho is only a depth player and shouldnt get 19mins on Jagr's line every night.

Good depth player but no more, but at that price its a good piece to have.
Well put. It didn't matter to me whether or not we re-signed him, but we did and I agree with the dollar amount we gave him. It's a reasonable deal; so while I'm not "in favor" of it necessarily, I'm not opposed to it either.

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08-01-2007, 09:21 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
However, if I'm wrong and he fails, drop him back down and he's a good 3rd liner or an excellent 4th liner.
I understand your point, but disagree. He cannot be thought of as a good 3rd liner, unless he can score around 15 goals a year. So far, his career has indicated that he is not capable of doing so. Unless he plays with Jagr, that is. And even that remains to be see, based upon the many, many times in his career that he looked great and then promptly disappeared for two months.

The problem with playing him with Jagr is that it now does two things. One, it moves a player who is much more of a top-6 forward away from Jagr. In Straka, there is a proven (unlike Hossa) player who can play the top line with Jagr and exceed. Also, since the loss of Nylander, I actually think it more important for Jagr to have someone that he has great chemistry with on the top line. Moving Straka around just so that Hossa can play with Jagr is pretty foolish, IMO.

Two, if Hossa is playing on the top 3 lines, it means that either Avery or Prucha are playing on the 4th line. Another thing that would be pretty foolish to do just so that Hossa can play with Jagr. NO ONE on these boards can even begin to form an argument in which demoting either Prucha or Avery to the 4th line makes sense. Certainly neither deserve it. And certainly BOTH should be top-9 forwards ahead of Hossa.

So, therein lie the problems of ramming Hossa on the top-line to play with Jagr. In order to do that, you are shifting around other factors, that just simply do not make sense. And, as has been shown for 95% of his career, if Hossa cannot play with Jagr, then he is utterly incapable of scoring. And if that is the case, then he should not be on the top-3 lines. Which brings him to the 4th line. And, he becomes completely useless on a line that plays around 6 minutes and is supposed to bring energy and a physical presence.

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08-01-2007, 09:32 AM
  #91
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T.B.:How's the baby? Are you sleeping? I like Hossa on the fourth line and the penalty kill. His signing at the dollar figure makes sense to me. Avery ,to me, is an ideal third liner. Prucha clearly belongs on the top two lines. I've repeatedly stated that a Gomez type center will help Prucha score thirty goals. Thus, a second line of Gomez, Prucha , and Shanny looks good. The downsie is Prucha on left wing instead of the right wing.Betts, Hossa and Hollweg/Orr man the fourth line. Cally, Avery, and Dubi/Pyatt/ Peca ARE THE THIRD LINERS

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08-01-2007, 09:52 AM
  #92
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honestly, even besides him putting up 13 points in his last 15 games of the season, the games before he really impressed me, he was hustling, controlling the puck, he was putting it together

so really this is a great 1 year deal that will allow him to be rewarded if it continues.

he has the skill, the speed, the defensive ability, the puck control and size, he just needs to put it together. if he does, it is a steal at 780k

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08-01-2007, 09:56 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
T.B.:How's the baby? Are you sleeping?
The sleep part has been ok. We are trying to get her on a schedule by having her eat around 11 and then around 3. But you know babies, whatever your ideal schedule is, they tend to have agendas of their own.

Hossa is just a wild card. I do not know if a team with Cup aspirations can a afford 15 game experiments in a year. When you are a serious contender, you have to shoot for all the advantages, which includes getting as many home games in the playoffs as possible. Which means that you have to win as many regular season games as possible. Which means that a 15 game-long fruitless experiment can be the difference between finishing in the top-tier of the conference and the bottom one. In a different year and a different mind-set (one with one or two less vets) perhaps a team could in fact have such am experiment. In a year in which your goal is the Cup (as it clearly is), I do not know if you can afford to give him such a trial run.

Seems to me, that camp would be the time for him to show whether or not he belongs, not the regular season. If he cannot seize the bull by the horns in camp, then mayhaps that will dictate his role to begin the season.

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08-01-2007, 10:11 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
I understand your point, but disagree. He cannot be thought of as a good 3rd liner, unless he can score around 15 goals a year. So far, his career has indicated that he is not capable of doing so. Unless he plays with Jagr, that is. And even that remains to be see, based upon the many, many times in his career that he looked great and then promptly disappeared for two months.

The problem with playing him with Jagr is that it now does two things. One, it moves a player who is much more of a top-6 forward away from Jagr. In Straka, there is a proven (unlike Hossa) player who can play the top line with Jagr and exceed. Also, since the loss of Nylander, I actually think it more important for Jagr to have someone that he has great chemistry with on the top line. Moving Straka around just so that Hossa can play with Jagr is pretty foolish, IMO.

Two, if Hossa is playing on the top 3 lines, it means that either Avery or Prucha are playing on the 4th line. Another thing that would be pretty foolish to do just so that Hossa can play with Jagr. NO ONE on these boards can even begin to form an argument in which demoting either Prucha or Avery to the 4th line makes sense. Certainly neither deserve it. And certainly BOTH should be top-9 forwards ahead of Hossa.

So, therein lie the problems of ramming Hossa on the top-line to play with Jagr. In order to do that, you are shifting around other factors, that just simply do not make sense. And, as has been shown for 95% of his career, if Hossa cannot play with Jagr, then he is utterly incapable of scoring. And if that is the case, then he should not be on the top-3 lines. Which brings him to the 4th line. And, he becomes completely useless on a line that plays around 6 minutes and is supposed to bring energy and a physical presence.
I'd just like to add here that Marcel Hossa has 30 goals in 187 career NHL games, which puts him on pace to score 13 goals in a full 82 games. That's around 15 goals, isn't it? It's not as if Hossa struggles to pot five goals each year. Especially if he had consistent linemates and knew who he'd be playing with every night... Guarantee him a spot on the third line and I'll guarantee 15 goals.


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Old
08-01-2007, 10:16 AM
  #95
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EXACTLY! Slats let Orts go, we knew exactly what we had with him, Hossa is a fly by night flash in the pan player, I will agree he can turn it on for strecths, but its an 82 game season, not a stretch of hames here & there, if Hossa was on a 2 way contract I could live with the signing, but to have him take away aspot from somebody else because Hossa could have a good game here & there is just wrong.
The Rangers know exactly what they have with Hossa too. An excellent penalty killer and one of the hardest working players they have along the boards who can occasionally put the puck in the net too, something Ortmeyer could never do.

I can't see how Hossa is not an upgrade over Ortmeyer on the 4th line. Ortmeyer might be better on the PK, but not by much. Hossa is a better stick handler, passer, and shooter. He could potentially provide offense on the 4th line (which is not something you absolutely need out of a 4th line, but it is nice when it happens) which never could happen with Ortmeyer. And Hossa is more versatile. Hossa showed last year he could replace an injured forward on a top line and he *gasp* scored some points! Can you imagine Ortmeyer doing that? Don't think so.

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08-01-2007, 10:20 AM
  #96
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for 1 yr at 780k I think Hossa is an asset because of the PKing ability as well as the ability to be plugged into a few different spot, even if it is for short periods of time.

And with our finesse/skill heavy wingers we need a guy with some size to help establish a cycle amoung our forward group.

will he continue to not bring production or was last years short stretch a sign that he is ready to take the next step with his play actually showing up on the scoresheet?

Time will tell but at the price and term he is an asset to the team IMO.

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08-01-2007, 10:25 AM
  #97
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I'd just like to add here that Marcel Hossa has 30 goals in 187 career NHL games, which puts him on pace to score 13 goals in a full 82 games. That's around 15 goals, isn't it?
He also scored 8 goals in the last 11 games. Without those games, which again appear to be an exception and not the rule if you look at his career. Without those, he looks to be a 10 or less goal scorer.
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It's not as if Hossa struggles to pot five goals each year.
Actually, aside from that incredible hot stretch, he HAS struggled to score any amount of goals in his career.
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Especially if he had consistent linemates and knew who he'd be playing with every night...
Again, looking at his career, that is a stretch. And in any case, as the Rangers are currently configured, there are more proven and more deserving players of playing on the top-3 lines.
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Guarantee him a spot on the third line and I'll guarantee 15 goals.
Looking at his career, just how do you "guarantee" it? What factors are you pointing to?

And if he is on the top-3 lines, then tell me which of Avery or Prucha are on the 4th line? Or have you shifted Straka, a far more productive and proven player, to play out of position as a 3rd line center?

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08-01-2007, 10:35 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
He also scored 8 goals in the last 11 games. Without those games, which again appear to be an exception and not the rule if you look at his career. Without those, he looks to be a 10 or less goal scorer.
Take last season out of the equation, and Hossa would average... 13 goals over 82 games. Assuming the stretch was a fluke, that's still his average.

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Actually, aside from that incredible hot stretch, he HAS struggled to score any amount of goals in his career.
3 goals in his first 10 pro games. Follow that with 6 in 34 the next season. 10 in 64 in '05. Modest numbers for sure, I'm not saying otherwise. Still though, he averages a goal every six games, with or without last season.

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Again, looking at his career, that is a stretch. And in any case, as the Rangers are currently configured, there are more proven and more deserving players of playing on the top-3 lines.
Proven? I'll give you that. Deserving? It depends on whether you feel his effort last season warrants a spot on the third line. For me it does, so I feel him to be plenty deserving.

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Looking at his career, just how do you "guarantee" it? What factors are you pointing to?
Again, the goal per six games for his career. He's never had steady linemates (i.e. regular pairings) in his tenure here and I feel that doing so could easily allow him 3 or 4 more goals of production. That's my guarantee .

Quote:
And if he is on the top-3 lines, then tell me which of Avery or Prucha are on the 4th line? Or have you shifted Straka, a far more productive and proven player, to play out of position as a 3rd line center?
My lines:

Straka-Drury-Jagr
Prucha-Gomez-Shanahan
Hossa-Dubinsky-Avery
Hollweg/Orr-Betts-Callahan

For me, it's that simple.

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08-01-2007, 12:01 PM
  #99
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Smart move by Hossa to avoid going through the ringer, but the question I have is where to stick him. Iíve not seen enough consistancy or productivity from Hossa to replace any of the other forwards on the top three lines. Whatever glimpses of glory heís had thus far, seem to only come when playing with Jagr. If Straka is not completely healed, giving Hossa another chance to prove himself playing with Jagr is ok, but itís time for him to fish or cut bait.

Last year Renny seemed blind to Hossa dissapearing acts and was determined to continue to give him (and his whopping 10goals / 7 assists) the benefit of doubt. Whereas Prucha who has provided 52 goals in two years, got little forgiveness for being off his game. I donít understand it, but donít see what Renny sees in Hossa either.

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08-01-2007, 12:34 PM
  #100
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Judging from this thread, its more like 90/10 in favor of the signing.
You have always had some werid man love for hossa, so your bias opnion does not count.

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