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We should form an alliance with the Sabres...

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Old
07-26-2007, 03:54 PM
  #1
jax00
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We should form an alliance with the Sabres...

Pretty self-explanatory as to why.

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07-26-2007, 03:55 PM
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The Zookeep
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and do what? Cry together?

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07-26-2007, 03:56 PM
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Ducksforcup
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and do what? Cry together?
Support each-other through the hard times.

I'm game.

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07-26-2007, 03:58 PM
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I'd be all for it But seriously, I think the move is indicative of Lowe/EDM's situation right now, and to me, they're in as ****** of a water as they can be.

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07-26-2007, 04:02 PM
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and do what? Cry together?
no you silly

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07-26-2007, 04:06 PM
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oh come on, losing Penner is not the end of the world. He's good but he's not a 4 million dollar a year player. Let the Oiler's take him, there going to finish 10 in the league this year.

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07-26-2007, 04:09 PM
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No need. The Oilers are going to suck in a few years because of their actions. There doesn't even need to be active revenge from Regier or Burke. All their young players are going to demand millions more than they're worth, and get it as they point to Vanek and Penner. Long term contracts at 4-7 million each for unproven players. And some will excel. But some will regress, and it'll absolutely screw the team over.

Some Oilers fans are happy at how the RFA offers will "improve the team's future FA prospects" and "prevent other teams from hoarding the talent" but to me the likely result is long term damage with respect to their ability to keep a team together. And more to their team than other teams, because precedent will be that THAT team pays at this inflated scale to unproven kids, not say the Ducks.

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07-26-2007, 04:11 PM
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Penner is going to have a lupul like season up in Emonton!

Which means he's going to suck!!!

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07-26-2007, 04:16 PM
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AVE MAN
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Originally Posted by treybrown View Post
Penner is going to have a lupul like season up in Emonton!

Which means he's going to suck!!!
Or Burke might match and he could suck in ANA for 4.3mil

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07-26-2007, 07:15 PM
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jnewton91
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No need. The Oilers are going to suck in a few years because of their actions. There doesn't even need to be active revenge from Regier or Burke. All their young players are going to demand millions more than they're worth, and get it as they point to Vanek and Penner. Long term contracts at 4-7 million each for unproven players. And some will excel. But some will regress, and it'll absolutely screw the team over.

Some Oilers fans are happy at how the RFA offers will "improve the team's future FA prospects" and "prevent other teams from hoarding the talent" but to me the likely result is long term damage with respect to their ability to keep a team together. And more to their team than other teams, because precedent will be that THAT team pays at this inflated scale to unproven kids, not say the Ducks.
You are aware that to pry a player away in an RFA situation you have to pay him more than he's worth, aren't you? Otherwise why would you even make an offer- if it was market value that the team with the rights would pay, they would instantly match. The Oilers signed Raffi Torres to a 3 year deal worth $6.75 and had 27 G and 14 A last year, is a year younger than Penner, and was drafted in the top 5 - how do you explain why Penner is worth twice as much? You remind him that this is the only way to get the guy, that if a team came along and offered Raffi 3.5-4 or whatever, the Oilers would match it.

It's not a matter of what the player is "worth", but rather what you need to spend to get the guy. If somebody wants to come along in the next few summers and offer Smid/Schremp/Nilsson maybe twice what they are worth, then so be it. That doesn't mean they're worth THAT much. It simply means a team without their RFA rights needs to spend more to get them than the team that does hold the rights.

Sorry, but while this does inflate salaries of future RFAs a bit, it doesn't do so to the extremity that you're claiming.

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07-26-2007, 07:20 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Or Burke might match and he could suck in ANA for 4.3mil
In Anaheim at least he has the chemistry with team mates like Getzlaf and Perry. In Edmonton he will have to find team mates that fit his style and that's not going to be easy.

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07-26-2007, 07:44 PM
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In Anaheim at least he has the chemistry with team mates like Getzlaf and Perry. In Edmonton he will have to find team mates that fit his style and that's not going to be easy.
So from what I'm hearing then is that Penner is worth 4.3mil in ANA but not in Edmonton...is that correct?

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07-26-2007, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
So from what I'm hearing then is that Penner is worth 4.3mil in ANA but not in Edmonton...is that correct?
No way is Penner worth 4.3 million. Whether he goes to Edmonton or stays, I think all of us will be happy and sad no matter what the outcome. The best situation for the Ducks would be to trade Bert and Bryz for something, and then Perry and Getzlaf take less money (around what Penner signed) to keep the PPG line together.

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07-26-2007, 09:39 PM
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Jerky Leclerc
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Back to topic:

Ducks and Sabres fans can now make T-shirts that say "Kevin Lowe, You Stink!"

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07-27-2007, 03:22 AM
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The situations are different in a way, in that Regier is the idiot for not letting Vanek go. 4 1st round draft picks is more valuable than any player not named Crosby, Ovechkin, or Phaneuf. Especially if Edmonton sucks, and gives you a chance at the Tavares sweepstakes.

The Penner offer is very close however. The salary is rough to accept and the compensation sucks. This is a far worse move. For those that say match at all costs, keep in mind that this is the deepest draft since '03 when we got Getzlaf and Perry, and that the pick could open up the possibility of one of: Stamkos, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Sauve

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Old
07-27-2007, 04:07 AM
  #16
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SABRES EFFIN ROCK with or without Briere and Drury!!!


Rick Jeanneret also ROCKS

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07-27-2007, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerky Leclerc View Post
Back to topic:

Ducks and Sabres fans can now make T-shirts that say "Kevin Lowe, You Stink!"
I'd totally buy one

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Old
07-27-2007, 11:22 AM
  #18
snarktacular
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Originally Posted by jnewton91 View Post
You are aware that to pry a player away in an RFA situation you have to pay him more than he's worth, aren't you? Otherwise why would you even make an offer- if it was market value that the team with the rights would pay, they would instantly match. The Oilers signed Raffi Torres to a 3 year deal worth $6.75 and had 27 G and 14 A last year, is a year younger than Penner, and was drafted in the top 5 - how do you explain why Penner is worth twice as much? You remind him that this is the only way to get the guy, that if a team came along and offered Raffi 3.5-4 or whatever, the Oilers would match it.

It's not a matter of what the player is "worth", but rather what you need to spend to get the guy. If somebody wants to come along in the next few summers and offer Smid/Schremp/Nilsson maybe twice what they are worth, then so be it. That doesn't mean they're worth THAT much. It simply means a team without their RFA rights needs to spend more to get them than the team that does hold the rights.

Sorry, but while this does inflate salaries of future RFAs a bit, it doesn't do so to the extremity that you're claiming.
You're right that re-signing their own RFAs probably won't cost quite as much as offer sheets for Vanek and Penner. But don't think for a second that Smid/Schremp/Nilsson won't use the offer sheets to demand more than they would have without these offers to be re-signed. Those offers will be the comparables that they will use for negotiation/arbitration. Especially if they're on par or better than Penner, they'll say "I put in time for the organization, I deserve the money." I believe that the salaries Edmonton specifically will have to pay to keep their players will rise more than you expect.

And Torres' worth was decreased by his (relatively) poor season. A year younger than Penner means nothing, Penner's having less top level training should balance that out. Torres' contract was also before Vanek's offer sheet. We'll see what happens with whatever RFA you have next year.

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Old
07-27-2007, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
The situations are different in a way, in that Regier is the idiot for not letting Vanek go. 4 1st round draft picks is more valuable than any player not named Crosby, Ovechkin, or Phaneuf. Especially if Edmonton sucks, and gives you a chance at the Tavares sweepstakes.

The Penner offer is very close however. The salary is rough to accept and the compensation sucks. This is a far worse move. For those that say match at all costs, keep in mind that this is the deepest draft since '03 when we got Getzlaf and Perry, and that the pick could open up the possibility of one of: Stamkos, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Sauve
You do realize the chance of getting a player of Vanek's caliber at the draft right?

Unless you have a top 5 pick it is unlikely.

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Old
07-27-2007, 11:36 AM
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Rick Jeanneret also ROCKS

more like smokes rock...he should really lay off the pipe on gamedays.

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07-27-2007, 11:51 AM
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Y A year younger than Penner means nothing,
He is year older than Penner, born in 1981, while Penner is 82.

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Old
07-27-2007, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
The situations are different in a way, in that Regier is the idiot for not letting Vanek go. 4 1st round draft picks is more valuable than any player not named Crosby, Ovechkin, or Phaneuf. Especially if Edmonton sucks, and gives you a chance at the Tavares sweepstakes.
First off, that's a gamble in itself. Not every team can have a four year run where you get Lupul, Getzlaf, Smid, and Ryan. What if it ends up being closer to Holmqvist, Vishnevski, Chistov, Smirnov?

Plus what kind of message are you sending to your fanbase? They made the conference finals the last two years, just lost Drury and Briere to free agency......and now you want to tell them you're also losing Vanek? And the best they can hope for is that maybe those draft picks turn out to be top picks. What if Edmonton turns into a playoff team by 2009 because we let them have a young 40 goal scorer?

Honestly if you give up a young 40 goal scorer for drafts picks in 2008/2009/2010/2011, you might not be GM to make the later picks. And even the guy you pick in 2008 most likely won't be a huge contributor until 2010 which seems an eternity away if your current NHL squad lost three first line players.

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07-27-2007, 12:34 PM
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First off, that's a gamble in itself. Not every team can have a four year run where you get Lupul, Getzlaf, Smid, and Ryan. What if it ends up being closer to Holmqvist, Vishnevski, Chistov, Smirnov?

Plus what kind of message are you sending to your fanbase? They made the conference finals the last two years, just lost Drury and Briere to free agency......and now you want to tell them you're also losing Vanek? And the best they can hope for is that maybe those draft picks turn out to be top picks. What if Edmonton turns into a playoff team by 2009 because we let them have a young 40 goal scorer?

Honestly if you give up a young 40 goal scorer for drafts picks in 2008/2009/2010/2011, you might not be GM to make the later picks. And even the guy you pick in 2008 most likely won't be a huge contributor until 2010 which seems an eternity away if your current NHL squad lost three first line players.
I agree

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07-27-2007, 02:07 PM
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I'd totally buy one
What are you guys ? 4 years old ?

Business is business, and as we sit back and watch what will happen, in the cap world it is no longer a gentleman's game at the table.

Yeah, if and when it happens in Edm it's gonna suck, however when Clarke opened the gates last year it was quite apparent that new rules will will lead to new strategies. Period. I think K-Lowe has a big brass set, and if teams don't want to bargain, then MAKE them bargain.

By the way, the only reason you guys have the cup last year is because Ottawa gave it up, you didn't win it.

So there. I can be 4 too.

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07-27-2007, 02:24 PM
  #25
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What are you guys ? 4 years old ?

Business is business, and as we sit back and watch what will happen, in the cap world it is no longer a gentleman's game at the table.
It's no longer a gentleman's game mostly due to your GM. We're merely amused that your GM is making these moves; this is desperate thrashing. Surely you're not so insecure about this that you'd need to label everyone who finds it as such as being "4 years old" - right? Right?

Your team made the move, deal with the consequences. If you can't even handle some fan banter I'd hate to see upset you get if any of your RFAs get poached.

Count me in for a shirt.

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