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And finally.....who's our 20th-best prospect?

View Poll Results: Who is the Kings 20th-best prospect?
LW Constantin Braun 3 4.76%
C Bryan Cameron 1 1.59%
D T.J. Fast 2 3.17%
D Johan Fransson 1 1.59%
C Gabe Gauthier 0 0%
C Bud Holloway 0 0%
RW Petr Kanko 4 6.35%
LW Dwight King 0 0%
LW Matt Moulson 9 14.29%
C Brady Murray 13 20.63%
D Joe Ryan 9 14.29%
C Matt Ryan 0 0%
C Joshua Turnbull 1 1.59%
G Matt Zaba 1 1.59%
C John Zeiler 19 30.16%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-07-2007, 04:58 PM
  #1
Capn Brown
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And finally.....who's our 20th-best prospect?

Eeking out a one-vote victory, RW Wayne Simmonds assumes the penultimate position amongst our top 20 prospects.......


19. RW Wayne Simmonds

18. D Patrik Hersley

17. G Jonathan Quick

16. C David Meckler

15. G Jeff Zatkoff

14. LW Scott Parse

13. D Joe Piskula

12. D Richard Petiot

11. C Oscar Moller

10. C Ted Purcell

9. RW Marc-Andre Cliche

8. D Peter Harrold

7. RW Lauri Tukonen

6. C Trevor Lewis

5. C/D Brian Boyle

4. D Thomas Hickey

3. LW Patrick O'Sullivan

2. G Jonathan Bernier

1. D Jack Johnson



As promised, this poll has added Joshua Turnbull to the mix.

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Old
08-08-2007, 01:17 AM
  #2
Holden Caulfield
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It is amazing to me that our top 20 prospects are going to round out without guys like Fast, Moulson, J. Ryan who all still have the potential to be impact players in the NHL, guys like Gauthier, Murray who both have shots at the NHL this year, and some other very intrigueing prospects like Braun, Fransson, Holloway, King. Just speaks to the depth of the Kings prospects at this point.

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08-08-2007, 04:26 AM
  #3
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voted for Zeiler.

Vladimir Dravecky should be in.

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08-08-2007, 04:34 AM
  #4
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Turnbull it is

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08-08-2007, 06:32 PM
  #5
Puck U
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#19 Wayne Simmonds huh ? OK .... well I'm sticking to my guns ......

LW Matt Moulson - yeah Zeiler makes the NHL first, but that doesn't mean he's got more upside IMO.

Next guys in order ......

C/LW John Zeiler
D T.J. Fast
D Joe Ryan
C Brady Murray
C Bryan Cameron
C Gabe Gauthier
C Joshua Turnbull
D Johan Fransson
C Bud Holloway
LW Dwight King
LW Constantin Braun
G Matt Zaba
RW Petr Kanko
C Matt Ryan

Hmmm, wow ... we actually enough guys that we COULD continue with a TOP 30 or 40 and still have guys in the bottom 20 that could make it to the NHL ... impressive list

AND thinking about it ... who's actually going to move over into the GRADUATED list this after this season, really only TWO maybe THREE or FOUR guys ? Jack Johnson and Patrick O'Sullivan most likely will and maybe Harrold or Zeiler will have enough NHL games to as well ? The Kings will still have a strong list next season.


Last edited by Puck U: 08-08-2007 at 06:38 PM.
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08-08-2007, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U View Post

AND thinking about it ... who's actually going to move over into the GRADUATED list this after this season, really only TWO maybe THREE or FOUR guys ? Jack Johnson and Patrick O'Sullivan most likely will and maybe Harrold or Zeiler will have enough NHL games to as well ? The Kings will still have a strong list next season.
What I wonder is.....what are the Kings plans for many of these guys?

Because they either have to make room for these guys or trade them. If you look at the Kings current roster their really is no room to fit more than maybe 2 or 3 rookies (that is including Johnson and O'Sullivan).....yet the Kings are going to have to make room for/trade about 7 or 8 guys in the next 2 seasons or they are going to be wasting their abilities in the AHL.

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08-08-2007, 09:38 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
What I wonder is.....what are the Kings plans for many of these guys?
We trade a couple with a 1st round pick to get our Elite Goalie next year ... that way we still keep Cammalleri ... DUH !

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08-09-2007, 01:02 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob-KingsVisnovsky View Post
Vladimir Dravecky should be in.
I went with Joe Ryan, more upside then Zeiler so I feel he is he better prospect...agreed, Dravecky should be in.

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08-09-2007, 02:03 AM
  #9
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Well looks like Zeiler's running away with the #20 spot ... so ,

While we know HF is still working on the upcoming re-ranking/listing, I figured next we should take a look at how the Current HF Rankings alongside how the picks have gone thus far ...

#1. D Jack Johnson - 8.5B
#2. G Jonathan Bernier - 8.0B
#3. LW Patrick O'Sullivan - 8.5C
#4. D Thomas Hickey - 8.0C
#5. D/C Brian Boyle - 8.0C
#6. C Trevor Lewis - 7.5C
#7. RW Lauri Tukonen - 7.5C
#8. D Peter Harrold - 7.0C
#9. RW Marc-Andre Cliche - 6.5C
#10. RW Ted Purcell - 7.0C
#11. RW Oscar Moller - 7.0C
#12. D Richard Petiot - 7.0B
#13. D Joe Piskula - 6.0C
#14. LW Scott Parse - 6.5B
#15. G Jeff Zatkoff - 7.0B
#16. C David Meckler - 6.0B
#17. G Jonathan Quick - 7.0C
#18. D Patrik Hersley - 6.5C
#19. RW Wayne Simmonds - 7.0D
#20. C/LW John Zeiler - 6.0B

anyone obviously out of place ? and no I don't mean your favorite player should be higher versus the other guy, I mean someone a majority of people feel should be higher than someone who got ranked too high by mistake.

of the TOP 20 Prospects
-------------------------
LeftWings = 2
Centers = 3
Goaltenders = 3
RightWings = 5
Defensemen = 7

So much for Defense being our weak point


Remaining Prospects =
LW/RW Constantin Braun - 6.0D
C Bryan Cameron - 6.5C
D T.J. Fast - 6.0C
D Johan Fransson - 7.0D
C Gabe Gauthier - 6.0C
C Bud Holloway - 6.0C
RW Petr Kanko - 6.0B
LW Dwight King - 6.5D
LW Matt Moulson - 7.0C
C Brady Murray - 6.0D
D Joe Ryan - 7.5C
C Matt Ryan - 5.0B
C Joshua Turnbull - 6.0C
G Matt Zaba - 6.0C


... let's see how close the "Fans" list matches up with HF's new rankings/listings in a couple weeks.


Last edited by Puck U: 08-09-2007 at 04:08 PM.
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Old
08-09-2007, 02:12 AM
  #10
Holden Caulfield
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IMO, of the ranked guys Mollar(~12), Meckler(~22), Hersley(~22), Simmonds(~23) are all too high. T.J. Fast is one guy I think is very underrated here and might surprise alot of people. Joe Ryan has had his problems at camp, but I think him not being in the top 20 is a joke. Very physical, plays a mean style that can intimedate opposing forwards. Gauthier, Holloway, and Moulson are other guys that I feel are solid prospects that could be nice players.

Oh, and at Squidward having too many prospects is not really a problem. Odds are much greater that many of them do not pan than we have too many guys "wasting away in the AHL". Although our prospect list looks exciting, lets not get ahead of ourselves here since many of these guys have not even proven themselves at the AHL level.

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08-09-2007, 11:35 AM
  #11
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isn't a player like Petr Kanko a little too old now to be considered a prospect?

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08-09-2007, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
isn't a player like Petr Kanko a little too old now to be considered a prospect?
Nope not yet, but this is his last season he will be as he turns 24 this February.

I also agree with WpgKings that Moller, and Meckler are too high and that Joe Ryan should be on here somewhere, but other than that I agree almost 100% with this list.

We might want to just keep going that way when the HF list comes out we can see where guys like Ryan, Gauthier, Moulson are ranked in fan voting just in case some of them make the HF list.

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08-09-2007, 02:04 PM
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Capn Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
#10. RW Ted Purcell - {Not Yet Ranked}
Actually, within the last couple of days, Ted Purcell was assigned the ranking of "7.0 C".

The only player listed as a prospect on the Hockeysfuture Kings' page who remains unranked is defenseman Alec Martinez.

Other than that, I'm assuming this Ersberg guy doesn't qualify for prospect status, as he's nowhere to be found on the above mentioned page.

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08-09-2007, 04:07 PM
  #14
Puck U
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Thanks ... hadn't seen Purcell had been updated

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08-09-2007, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WpgKings13 View Post
Oh, and at Squidward having too many prospects is not really a problem. Odds are much greater that many of them do not pan than we have too many guys "wasting away in the AHL". Although our prospect list looks exciting, lets not get ahead of ourselves here since many of these guys have not even proven themselves at the AHL level.
I said there are about 7 or 8 guys who needed to have a spot in the next 2 seasons or be traded. These are guys that most of us see at least making the NHL....

Lauri Tukonen---------age 20 (turns 21 in September)
Brian Boyle------------age 22 (turns 23 in December)
Scott Parse-----------age 22 (turns 23 in September)
Peter Harrold----------age 24 (turns 25 in June)
Richard Petiot---------age 24 (turns 25 in 2 weeks)
Joe Piskula------------age 23 (turns 24 in July)
Teddy Purcell---------age 21 (turns 22 in September)
Trevor Lewis----------age 20 (turns 21 in January)

The point is most of (if not all) these guys are suppose to have a good chance at being NHL players. But if they do not get their chance in the next 2 seasons it could hurt their development. But I can't see us having room for all of these guys in the next 2 seasons.

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08-09-2007, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WpgKings13 View Post
Joe Ryan has had his problems at camp, but I think him not being in the top 20 is a joke. Very physical, plays a mean style that can intimidate opposing forwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
...Joe Ryan should be on here somewhere...
He should've been voted in here at #20, IMO, but most people have been throwing their votes at Zeiler and Murray for some reason

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08-09-2007, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
I said there are about 7 or 8 guys who needed to have a spot in the next 2 seasons or be traded. These are guys that most of us see at least making the NHL....

Lauri Tukonen---------age 20 (turns 21 in September)
Brian Boyle------------age 22 (turns 23 in December)
Scott Parse-----------age 22 (turns 23 in September)
Peter Harrold----------age 24 (turns 25 in June)
Richard Petiot---------age 24 (turns 25 in 2 weeks)
Joe Piskula------------age 23 (turns 24 in July)
Teddy Purcell---------age 21 (turns 22 in September)
Trevor Lewis----------age 20 (turns 21 in January)

The point is most of (if not all) these guys are suppose to have a good chance at being NHL players. But if they do not get their chance in the next 2 seasons it could hurt their development. But I can't see us having room for all of these guys in the next 2 seasons.
Personally, I can see Parse and Petiot getting dealt.

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08-09-2007, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
The point is most of (if not all) these guys are suppose to have a good chance at being NHL players. But if they do not get their chance in the next 2 seasons it could hurt their development. But I can't see us having room for all of these guys in the next 2 seasons.
That sounds like the makings of competition to me. It's a good thing (for the Kings) that there are too few spots to go around. Let the kids take nothing for granted and fight each other for those spots. The Kings will then have the luxury of retaining the best ones and trading/releasing the others. If one or two are just too good to let go, Lombardi can always make room for them (ex. not re-signing Nagy or Stuart)... but, for the most part, if prospects can't make that strong case for being on the NHL roster, the Kings are probably better off not having them on it if they want to be a contender sometime soon.

The fact of the matter is that the Kings should be good enough in a few years so that they can't just give spots to every decent prospect in their system. Contending teams can't afford to do that; they have to incorporate only the best prospects or else they'll suffer from inexperience and take steps back. Right now, the Kings can afford to throw just about anyone into the NHL lineup to see if they stick; they won't be able to do that for much longer. We're going to have to learn to get used to the idea of many Kings prospects not making it.


Last edited by Osprey: 08-09-2007 at 05:01 PM.
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08-09-2007, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
I said there are about 7 or 8 guys who needed to have a spot in the next 2 seasons or be traded. These are guys that most of us see at least making the NHL....

Lauri Tukonen---------age 20 (turns 21 in September)
Brian Boyle------------age 22 (turns 23 in December)
Scott Parse-----------age 22 (turns 23 in September)
Peter Harrold----------age 24 (turns 25 in June)
Richard Petiot---------age 24 (turns 25 in 2 weeks)
Joe Piskula------------age 23 (turns 24 in July)
Teddy Purcell---------age 21 (turns 22 in September)
Trevor Lewis----------age 20 (turns 21 in January)

The point is most of (if not all) these guys are suppose to have a good chance at being NHL players. But if they do not get their chance in the next 2 seasons it could hurt their development. But I can't see us having room for all of these guys in the next 2 seasons.
Parse, Boyle, Tukonen, Piskula, Purcell are all very long ways from "wasting away" in the AHL. They have yet to even prove they can really play at the AHL level. With the expecting release of Tverdovsky, Harrold should be in the NHL this year. Petiot needs to prove he can rebound from that injury, and tops out as a #5-6 anyways so maybe waivers gets him. Tukonen has yet to step up and dominate the AHL yet and needs to prove more at that level before he moves. Right now he might be closer to washing out than making the Kings. Boyle needs to adjust to the pro level at a new position yet. He will need time. Parse, Piskula, Purcell are all far bets from being 1-2 years away from the NHL since they have yet to prove anthing at the AHL level. Maybe after this year if these players begin to make names for themselves we will have a problem. But as it stands right now I see no problem. Odds are that 3-5 of that list never establishes themselves as NHL regulars. That is just realism. Hf tends to love their prospects, but it is important to keep things in perspective. Many players, even "sure bets" bust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
He should've been voted in here at #20, IMO, but most people have been throwing their votes at Zeiler and Murray for some reason
I admit I have a bias for NHL readiness. Although Ryan has a very nice upside, I take an NHLer now anyday over a completely unproven prospect(within reason, of course). Ryan is for sure next on my list though, and in my personal top 20.

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08-09-2007, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by WpgKings13 View Post
I admit I have a bias for NHL readiness. Although Ryan has a very nice upside, I take an NHLer now anyday over a completely unproven prospect(within reason, of course).
I value NHL-readiness, myself, but I draw the line when it's an almost-25-year-old being "ready" to be a 15-point 4th-liner. That's not really what I, personally, would call a good prospect. I'll take the player with the higher upside and much more youth over that each time... but that's me.

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08-09-2007, 09:14 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by WpgKings13 View Post
Parse, Boyle, Tukonen, Piskula, Purcell are all very long ways from "wasting away" in the AHL. They have yet to even prove they can really play at the AHL level. With the expecting release of Tverdovsky, Harrold should be in the NHL this year. Petiot needs to prove he can rebound from that injury, and tops out as a #5-6 anyways so maybe waivers gets him. Tukonen has yet to step up and dominate the AHL yet and needs to prove more at that level before he moves. Right now he might be closer to washing out than making the Kings. Boyle needs to adjust to the pro level at a new position yet. He will need time. Parse, Piskula, Purcell are all far bets from being 1-2 years away from the NHL since they have yet to prove anthing at the AHL level. Maybe after this year if these players begin to make names for themselves we will have a problem. But as it stands right now I see no problem. Odds are that 3-5 of that list never establishes themselves as NHL regulars. That is just realism. Hf tends to love their prospects, but it is important to keep things in perspective. Many players, even "sure bets" bust.

What you are not taking into account is that teams don't really consider 24 and 25 year olds as "prospects". So having (assuming they don't make it to the NHL in the next 2 years) 26 year old guys like Petiot or Harrold playing in Manchester still waiting to break in to the Kings lineup while other NHL teams would be willing to at least part with some mid-round draft picks to put them on their NHL rosters is a better use of assets. Just because there is no room or these guys are not good enough to break into the Kings lineup does not mean there are not other teams in the league that would love to give these guys a shot.

Plus do not forget the fact that the Kings have a ton of draft picks for next Summer.....You need to make room in Manchester for some of these guys to play in the next couple of seasons.

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08-09-2007, 09:47 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
I value NHL-readiness, myself, but I draw the line when it's an almost-25-year-old being "ready" to be a 15-point 4th-liner. That's not really what I, personally, would call a good prospect. I'll take the player with the higher upside and much more youth over that each time... but that's me.
Me too Osprey. Granted the Kings acquired a few guys, but Ryan going from #9 to off the board? I don't think so...

I'm as big a fan of Z's as the next guy but I don't think he knocks Ryan out of the top-20...

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